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How far can you run an ethernet cable

scrumpy

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New Hampshire Rt93 Exit 1
Use a wireless extender located in the window that is closest to the garage. $50-70 and done. Bonus is it will work all over the back yard. Also no issue with lightning or grounding levels. It will still be faster than your backend out to the provider. Unless your trying to move data from a server in the house out to the garage it will be sufficient. Netgear wn2000rpt is a good example.

-Scrump
 
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DodgeZ

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>Wireless works fine if you use good gear and set it up right.
And your RF environment allows it.
LOL. I don't think he is trying this in New York City.

X2 - managed switches and fiber converters, now we're out more than my 16' door cost LOL.

Hearing allllll kind of crazy stuff just to get a network drop 200 feet away.
 

SuperSocket

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>Ethernet runs over fiber.
Good point - distance limits apply to the physical medium.

>Fiber is cheap, you will spend more money on the conduit to protect it than the fiber itself.
Terminating it properly is not, and transiting from wired to fiber is not really either. We have 75,000 feet of it installed and try very hard NOT to do that ourselves. If it's not terminated right, you got nothing.

>Wireless works fine if you use good gear and set it up right.
And your RF environment allows it.


You do not need to terminate if you already purchase a long enough patch cable. You don't need OSPF or anything fancy like that. This is not a commercial communications facility, this is a simple solution to a simple problem.


Cat 5e/6 cable is about 8-10 cents a foot even at retail spool price. Running two or three lines for redundancy is the cost of one spool or even less.

Fiber runs at least twice that and for all its reliability, I'd want to run duplicates. It's starting to get not-so-cheap...


Yeah, I love that Chinese **** - you can always spot it from the weird typeface they use. I don't know of any decent fiber converters for less than about $100 - and those are single-port, meaning (tadaaaa!) he's going to need a switch on each end anyway. Or at least one.

No point in using ChinEbay garbage for even the most casual job here... he may as well go get two $40 wireless units and put up with the endless connection hassles. Cost will be proportional to usefulness.

OTOH, an $80 spool of Cat6 and two $50 4-port switches - make 'em gigabit Ethernet and gain a little house-to-shop bandwidth, at least between systems if not out the internet port - and you've got bulletproof, redundant, upgradeable connectivity for the next decade.


Redundancy? What are you running? lol. I think you guys are totally getting carried away here. A lot of computer and network products are made in china, including some Cisco and HP Procurve products too.
 
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SuperSocket

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LOL. I don't think he is trying this in New York City.



Hearing allllll kind of crazy stuff just to get a network drop 200 feet away.

Home users are so funny in that they always want to overkill on a solution that is actually a very simple problem. They always want multi-port gigabit, redundancy, and all these features that no one here will ever use.
 

DodgeZ

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You do not need to terminate if you already purchase a long enough patch cable. You don't need OSPF or anything fancy like that. This is not a commercial communications facility, this is a simple solution to a simple problem.

Redundancy? What are you running? lol. I think you guys are totally getting carried away here.

Fiber and media convertors? This is just a bad idea. More so for a 200 foot run. Media convertors are know to be a huge failure points. Fiber isn't need for 200'. As for the managed switch, if the guy is asking how long a network cable can be run he isn't going to want to config a cisco switch.
 

DodgeZ

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Ockie, I'm LOLing here in it land!

I wonder what mebedave is going to think when he signs back in to find out he needs cisco switches, fiber and media convertors.

Good news is. I happen to have a couple Cisco 2950s and a pair of media converts for sale. LOL
 

orangefury

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Aug 4, 2011
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KISS run a cat6 drop, use cheap switch good to go.

I haved used fiber between swtiches for years without failure.

Why on earth would the averge joe setup a manage switch, that's what geek squad for:).

I refered to catalyst and procurve because of the low failure rate, but I digress and forgot what forum I was on.

Wait I though we were planning out for a data center.:beer:
 

theoldwizard1

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is UNBELIEVABLE !

First, to answer the question, how far can you run an "Ethernet cable", the answer is, for copper wire (i.e.Cat 5, Cat5E or Cat 6), 100 meters. In reality. I would not go past 90 meters.

There are many "flavors" of Ethernet. The "original" IEEE 802.3 (a.k.a. 10Base5)used a special coaxial cable about the size of your thumb (usually yellow or orange). Special "vampire taps" and clamps were used to tap off the cable. The clamp had a connector to an AUI cable to the port on your computer. (Yes, I am THAT old.) There were no hubs/routers/switches back then.

Next came "Thin Wire" (10Base2). It used standard RG58 (NOT RG59) coax and BNC connectors. An adapter box and AUI cable were still required.

The main advantage of these early version was that no hubs/routers were required.

Segment lengths are based the "Collision Sense" strategy of the protocol (the first 2 incarnations had multiple computers talking on the same wire at the same time). The 100 meter length had to do with the amount of "quiet time" you has to wait before trying to put your signal on the wire. Attenuation of the signal on the wire had nothing to do with the length (assuming you were using the proper cable).

Of course none of this really necessary today (except that the standards say so and for backward compatibility) because very few network use a multidrop cable as I just described. Most installations are using a star topology with a router/switch at the center.

Once the cost of routers got "reasonable" the alternatives for Ethernet opened up. 10BaseT, 100BaseT, 1000BaseT, fiber, etc.


BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM !

The most reliable and fastest solution is waterproof/direct burial Cat5e cable. 225 ft for about $100 (you don't need Cat6 if you aren't going to run Gigabit). The simplest is wireless (802.11G or N). Wireless should not be a problem unless you are in a metal building or your antennas aren't very good (typical) or they are not located in an good location.
 
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cashishift

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is UNBELIEVABLE !

First, to answer the question, how far can you run an "Ethernet cable", the answer is, for copper wire (i.e.Cat 5, Cat5E or Cat 6), 100 meters. In reality. I would not go past 90 meters.

There are many "flavors" of Ethernet. The "original" IEEE 802.3 (a.k.a. 10Base5)used a special coaxial cable about the size of your thumb (usually yellow or orange). Special "vampire taps" and clamps were used to tap off the cable. The clamp had a connector to an AUI cable to the port on your computer. (Yes, I am THAT old.) There were no hubs/routers/switches back then.

Next came "Thin Wire" (10Base2). It used standard RG58 (NOT RG59) coax and BNC connectors. An adapter box and AUI cable were still required.

The main advantage of these early version was that no hubs/routers were required.

Segment lengths are based the "Collision Sense" strategy of the protocol (the first 2 incarnations had multiple computers talking on the same wire at the same time). The 100 meter length had to do with the amount of "quiet time" you has to wait before trying to put your signal on the wire. Attenuation of the signal on the wire had nothing to do with the length (assuming you were using the proper cable).

Of course none of this really necessary tofay (except that the standards say so and for backward compatibility) because very few network use a multidrop cable as I just described. Most installations are using a star topology with a router/switch at the center.

Once the cost of routers got "reasonable" the alternatives for Ethernet opened up. 10BaseT, 100BaseT, 1000BaseT, fiber, etc.


BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM !

The most reliable and fastest solution is waterproof/direct burial Cat5e cable. 225 ft for about $100 (you don't need Cat6 if you aren't going to run Gigabit). The simplest is wireless (802.11G or N). Wireless should not be a problem unless you are in a metal building or your antennas aren't very good (typical) or they are not located in an good location.

at this point, might as well plan for gigabit, especially where the future is going.

I wouldn't bother spending the money unless you were going to "future" proof it.
 

TWX

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No, it won't. The only reason ethernet ever slows down is from poor connections or insufficiently rated cable. A 200-foot run with Cat6 cable and a router/switch at both ends will pose no speed limitation at all. Fiber's fine, but rather costly and unnecessary unless you need extremely high speeds (way over gigabit) or very long runs (thousands of feet).

You do have to use good quality gear for long runs - you won't get by with recycled Cat3 hooked to a cheap modem on one end and a marginal equipment port on the other, but such a rig wouldn't work well over 6 feet, either.

You go real long with fiber and you'd need a mode-conditioning cable at each end anyway. That can be a couple hundred dollars for just two patch cords...

I like the idea of multiple runs of Cat-6. Buy a 1000' spool, run 'em back and forth until you run out of cable. That ensures that if one fails, you have more, and if you need more drops then they're already run.
 

TWX

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BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM !

The most reliable and fastest solution is waterproof/direct burial Cat5e cable. 225 ft for about $100 (you don't need Cat6 if you aren't going to run Gigabit). The simplest is wireless (802.11G or N). Wireless should not be a problem unless you are in a metal building or your antennas aren't very good (typical) or they are not located in an good location.

I would not run anything less than CAT6 if it's going in-ground, and I'd take the time to look for the thickest gauge direct-burial CAT6 available. The cost to trench and terminate, even if the person is doing it themselves and is only factored as time, is greater than the cost of the bulk box of cable and punchdown blocks. If a need later proves great enough that CAT5e is inadequate, which it well could, having to tear it out and redo it because of cutting that corner is, in my opinion, worse than spending the money upfront for the newer stuff.

At this point, all new computers can signal gigabit. All new commercial switches signal gigabit, and many consumer ones do too. For me, that's enough to justify CAT6 over CAT5 and CAT5e.
 

brett09

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Mar 9, 2011
Messages
119
An IRS building I worked at rerouting ethernet cables under the elevated floor had several, several hundred feet runs from the main networking room to the various areas of the building. Not sure exactly how long, but some were definitely over 328'. If you use a high quality cable for outdoor use, you will be fine.
 

MustangRick

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Dec 26, 2006
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KC
Spec out your Cat5/Cat5e/Cat6 cable according to your conduit. Some of that Cat6 cable doesn't pull very easy through 1/2" or even 3/4" conduit. If you have adequate access to the conduit, just pull one cable through. If it ever fails, then cut the end off, tape on a new one and pull it through. Just get the end crimped on right and you should be good forever. You could do one step better and punch down the end of each side onto a jack and mount that to the wall so there is no movement.

Any computer geek should have the tools to punch down or crimp a cable. Whether or not they can put a good crimp on the end is a different story. If you leave enough slack on each end, you can try quite a few times to get it right.
 
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jimmy29

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knoxville Tn
WOW is right, i only got a few responses on how to insulate a garage door. 333' is max. If you are running other things to the garage(power, security, etc.) might as well run cat5e also. A switch is cheap and acts like a booster on the garge end. $50 or $60 at an office supply store. Wireless may work, just make sure to use a password for security.
 

theoldwizard1

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at this point, might as well plan for gigabit, especially where the future is going.

I wouldn't bother spending the money unless you were going to "future" proof it.

For the vast majority of the people here, Gigabit Ethernet is total overkill ! The bandwidth of the wire coming into your house is much, MUCH less. Don't expect any "breakthroughs" in bandwidth to the home until the cable/phone companies start pulling fiber to your house.

AT&T is still paying off their investment on "fiber to the neighborhood" (FTTN) especially because the "world" is not exactly jumping of the U-Verse bandwagon !


Of course I just finished installing a "home office network" for a friend in the digital photography business with 9 TB of disk in a Synology DS1511+ server connected to a Cisco RV220W Gigabit switch/wireless N access point and a 6 core HP workstation. In this case I DID use Cat6 cables. (They came in a really pretty shade of blue and the longest one was only 5 meters !)
 

jeffmoss26

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I've gotten gig speeds over Cat 3. Don't recommend it obviously but it did work in this 'cant run new wire' situation.
Cat 5e direct burial should be more than fine.
DodgeZ, maybe one day I will be a CCNA (then CCNP) :)
 

ForceFed70

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I used Cat5e direct burial. I wanted CAT6 but there was a big price jump for the cost of the cable.

Been a while, but my enderstanding is that Cat5e does support Gigabit you just have to use 2 pairs of conductors.

I would certainly reccomend planning for Gigabit. With the way computer technology and networking is going, in 10 years Gigabit will be slow.

Streaming HD video is already common place and you would be pushing the limits of a 100Mb/s network to do it.
 

theoldwizard1

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lol. Well I am a CCNP :bounce:

No certs and "officially" retired for almost 4 years.

When your the admin for a dozen+ servers (various hardware and OSes, no Microsquish) in 3 different metropolitan cities that are accessed via a private network by hundreds of users from around the world (part of a Fortune 50 company's private net) you have to know a lot about networking so you know if some one is "blowing smoke up you a$$".

More than once, I proved the "network guys" wrong.
 

DodgeZ

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I used Cat5e direct burial. I wanted CAT6 but there was a big price jump for the cost of the cable.

Been a while, but my enderstanding is that Cat5e does support Gigabit you just have to use 2 pairs of conductors.

I would certainly reccomend planning for Gigabit. With the way computer technology and networking is going, in 10 years Gigabit will be slow.

Streaming HD video is already common place and you would be pushing the limits of a 100Mb/s network to do it.

5e or 6 will both do gig at 100 meters. 1080p video will run on less then 10megs so a 100meg connection can run 10 1080p streams. A gig link can do 100 1080p streams at once.


cat6 is better cabling and I don't think it is going to add much to the cost.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-CAT-6-C...459?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5c44fe5b

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-CAT-5E-...758?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c51828ece
 

jeffmoss26

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Been a while, but my enderstanding is that Cat5e does support Gigabit you just have to use 2 pairs of conductors.

Gigabit requires all four pairs. Cat 5e or Cat 6. Like I said, I've done it over Cat 3 in a pinch. 10/100 megabit uses only 2 pairs.
 
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ForceFed70

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1080p video will run on less then 10megs so a 100meg connection can run 10 1080p streams. A gig link can do 100 1080p streams at once.

Where did you get this information from?

HDMI standard says a throughput of 50Mb/s but in actuality it's closer to 35mb/s for full 1080P

100Mb/s is the rating, in reality you loose a bunch to overhead.

The internet is full of threads about people struggling to stream 1080P over 802.11G with a rated throughput of 54Mb/s.
 

ElectroLight

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Wow, fiber, media converters, enterprise switches, what's next trunk some VLANs over to the shop, 1 for each bay? I went to Goodwill and picked up a Cisco branded Linksys WAP for <$10, upgraded the firmware and haven't looked back. It's really not all that difficult. You can download a tool like NetStumbler to survey your wireless environment to determine the best channel to use (1, 6, or 11). Just use the one that's open (un-used)

Edit: If the metal building turns out to be an issue, fab up an external antenna by remoting the WAP antenna with the proper Coax patch cable. okay, sounds like work...
 
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DodgeZ

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No certs and "officially" retired for almost 4 years.

When your the admin for a dozen+ servers (various hardware and OSes, no Microsquish) in 3 different metropolitan cities that are accessed via a private network by hundreds of users from around the world (part of a Fortune 50 company's private net) you have to know a lot about networking so you know if some one is "blowing smoke up you a$$".

More than once, I proved the "network guys" wrong.

I wish I was retired for 4 years! I've proved more than one "network guy" wrong also. There are lot of ****** network guys out there. No doubt.
 

V-10 Killer

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+1. Hell, +2. :bounce:

I have years and years of experience with both methods and love the convenience of wireless when it works... but for never-screw-with-it-again reliability, copper is the only way to go. Run extra cables while you're doing the lay and it will be decades before you need to do anything but switch to a different line.

I agree wholeheartedly. I've tried 2 wireless routers in my house, and still have issues getting a good stong signal to my kids computer 50' away. And about once every 10-20 days, I have to reset everything because they can't communicate with the router... When they work they're great, otherwise:(

I won't tell you what could work for you, but I will tell you what I did and it did work for me. I ran a 175' run of Cat5 (I think, I can't find the leftover roll right now) cable from the wall next to my router in the house, to a wall outlet in the garage. I ran it in a 3/4" conduit and pulled a phone line along side of it. I have about 40' total worth of patch cables at the end to reach the router and laptop. And I've never had an issue with connection speed. I can stream any audio/video I want, and it ALWAYS works.

I hope you find a method that works best for you. The KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) method worked good enough in my application.:beer:
 
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DodgeZ

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Where did you get this information from?

HDMI standard says a throughput of 50Mb/s but in actuality it's closer to 35mb/s for full 1080P

100Mb/s is the rating, in reality you loose a bunch to overhead.

The internet is full of threads about people struggling to stream 1080P over 802.11G with a rated throughput of 54Mb/s.

Google it. There are different frame rates for 1080P. Do you think Netflix does 1080P at 35Mbps?

I think you got your overhead backwards. Wired runs really damn close it's rating. You'll get close to 10MB per second with a 100Mbps link. That's is about 1 CD worth of data in a minute. Which is faster then you can read from a CD directly.

Wireless you get about half what it is rated at. For G you get around 22Mbps. Anything else using the same channel shares that 22Mbps and if you toss a B client in there it is even worse. Distance from the AP comes in to play also. Along with other things that will slow it down. I don't doubt a ****** G network with wrong 1080p compression will have problems.
 

DodgeZ

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I agree wholeheartedly. I've tried 2 wireless routers in my house, and still have issues getting a good stong signal to my kids computer 50' away. And about once every 10-20 days, I have to reset everything because they can't communicate with the router... When they work they're great, otherwise:(

I won't tell you what could work for you, but I will tell you what I did and it did work for me. I ran a 175' run of Cat5 (I think, I can't find the leftover roll right now) cable from the wall next to my router in the house, to a wall outlet in the garage. I ran it in a 3/4" conduit and pulled a phone line along side of it. I have about 40' total worth of patch cables at the end to reach the router and laptop. And I've never had an issue with connection speed. I can stream any audio/video I want, and it ALWAYS works.

I hope you find a method that works best for you. The KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) method worked good enough in my application.:beer:

Sounds like you have crappy wireless routers.
 

countrytech

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Mar 9, 2011
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West Michigan
My shop is about 200' from my house. Can I run an ethernet cable from my router in my house to my shop for internet access,or is that too far?
Yes it will work fine! poor guy you'll be all confused after what everyone is saying...




Get some 3/4" conduit cheap, then get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cat-6-Bulk-...aultDomain_0&hash=item19c9cdf76d#ht_500wt_717

make 2 runs of it while you are doing it.

get a pack of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-new-R...ultDomain_2&hash=item3a6c7bb780#ht_3615wt_882

with a crimper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RJ45-RJ11-W...Accessories&hash=item27bb72c16d#ht_2380wt_752



or just put 1 or 2 of these inside conduit. its plenty for any shop computer and will work great.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cat-5E-350M...aultDomain_0&hash=item58849f5766#ht_772wt_702

its way less complicated than everyone is making it out to be and will be nearly bullet (but not backhoe) proof :lol_hitti
 
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