How is the switch hot...

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

One switch in the bedroom controls the outlet. Removed the outlet and two lines of Romex 2 wire come in. They tied hot from one, neutral from the other together and then the hot and neutral remaining from each goes to outlet. Switch that controls them has one line of 2 wire Romex in with hot and neutral hooked up. Capping off hot and neutral at switch the 2 hots in outlet box are still live. Hot in switch is hot as well. How did I kill switch power and outlet power from one cable? I just want one cable to provide constant power. I have the switch wires and one set of cable wires capped for now.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Its called a switch loop.

Hot and neutral feed comes in on one NM-b and the other NM-b is used as the feed and return to the switch.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

But how do I disconnect it? All 3 hots are hot even when all disconnected from outlet and switch!

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I ran a new line of 14-2 from the attic down the wall to the outlet box so I could run a fan across the room. I wanted to just wire nut the new 14-2 to the existing wiring to get power and put a blank plate over the switch box and outlet box. When I got it connected to one of the Romex lines in the box, the other was still hot along with the switch.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Is it safe or acceptable to cap the switch wires and one of the 14-2 coming in as well and only using one set of the 14-2 to run the ceiling fan?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can u post some pics of the wire hanging out of th box.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Can u post some pics of the wire hanging out of th box.

I'm not there right now. If you can imagine an outlet box by the floor. Romex on top left, Romex on top right. One neutral and one hot from each Romex cable are wire nutted together and the remaining neutral and hot from each cabling go to the outlet. In the switch box it's just a neutral and hot. Both hots in the outlet box when separated out are live. As well as the hot at the switch. With no outlet or switch connected its all still hot. So I put a wire nut on the hot and one on the neutral at the switch and did the same for one hot and one neutral from one cable of Romex in the outlet box. So I hooked the Romex cabling I ran from the outlet to the hot and neutral I didn't cap and wire nutted it. I would like to kill the hot & neutral in the outlet box and at the switch just so I don't have to worry about them. Unless you all think it's acceptable. I have to put a work box and such to hang a ceiling fan, so that's what this wiring is for.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Is the neutral at the switch actually a hot (it's not marked). I'm not confused as to why 3 hots are live and I can't break the circuit

 

[CADPoint]

From your description I'm going to go on the fact that the switched receptacle box is feed hot and then sent up to the switch.

So black would be attached to white, the black was attached to receptacle.

Its called a switch loop.
Hot and neutral feed comes in on one NM-b and the other NM-b is used as the feed and return to the switch.

But how do I disconnect it? All 3 hots are hot even when all disconnected from outlet and switch!

You need to go back, and disconnect all the same wires.
the wires in the switch box should now not be hot. With needles, check it.

Now the two sets of wire in the receptacle box, needle those and you should only find one pair hot, cap off other pair, that's the travelers/loop that diesel spoke off.

If only two other wires to other fan switch (if in Box) than the light power is in the Light/fan.

 

[teamextreme]

With needles, check it...

Now the two sets of wire in the receptacle box, needle those...

Needles? Never heard that term. I'm assuming it means check it with a meter? Must be a term local to **** City.

 

[eddieK]

Needles? Never heard that term. I'm assuming it means check it with a meter? Must be a term local to **** City.

Needles are the pointy end of the meter test leads...Better than fingers

I think he was just using caution

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I separated out all the wires. Capped and taped the hot and neutral in the switch box and one set of hot and neutral in the outlet box. Hooked my new wire to the other pair of hot and neutral and wire nutted/ taped them. Ran the wire down the joist and wire stapled it, screwed in the box to the joist and clamped the Romex into it. Installed the fan and it works. I just wanted to kill the hot wire in the switch box and the extra one in the outlet box but I can't figure it out, so they're capped, taped and tucked. Should be fine? Separating them all out I still had 3 hots...

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

From your description I'm going to go on the fact that the switched receptacle box is feed hot and then sent up to the switch.

So black would be attached to white, the black was attached to receptacle.





You need to go back, and disconnect all the same wires.
the wires in the switch box should now not be hot. With needles, check it.

Now the two sets of wire in the receptacle box, needle those and you should only find one pair hot, cap off other pair, that's the travelers/loop that diesel spoke off.

If only two other wires to other fan switch (if in Box) than the light power is in the Light/fan.

This is originally how I thought too. After doing exactly this, I posted here due to confusion.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

And there were no grounds hooked up at all in the room nor do I believe in the box... they were all just wrapped around the Romex. Original wiring in the house. So I hooked up the fan with hot and neutral and while I didn't snip the ground, it's obviously not functional. Kind of bothers me but it's a remote controlled fan and I made sure it was taped and wire nutted well.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Got it all grounded, still wish I could figure out *********** power to the other 2 hot wires...

 

[DirtyJersey]

Turn the breaker off

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[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Turn the breaker off

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Breaker feeds a few outlets in 3 bedrooms, a bathroom, hallway and living room. 2 Junction boxes in attic but no wires disconnected turns the wires off at switch or outlet. So confused... from attic I see one rooms cable go down the wall, which is the hole I fed my new cable down, but there's two visual cables in the outlet box... one down the wall, two in the box? And how does the switch have 120v but only 2 wires, yet controls the outlet which has 2 hot, 2 neutral (in 2 separate tins of romex). Witchcraft!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Post some new pics...

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I'll draw one. They're behind furniture now and not in my house. Let me see how well I can draw...

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

This is how they were originally. I removed the outlet and switch from the circuit. With all the wires separated out individually, the 3 hots in the circuit disconnected from a load still show 120v.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I'm sorry I'm not making this easy... its not my house and I'm not always able to get to the wiring with furniture and occupants

 

[DirtyJersey]

You need to find the source of the wire on the left in outlet.
Trip breakers until no power and find what else is off.

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[SuzukiGS750EZ]

You need to find the source of the wire on the left in outlet.
Trip breakers until no power and find what else is off.

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That's the thing. Breaker 3 turns off that outlet and switch as well as one in tyre room on the other side of the wall. Outlets in the living room as well as the bathroom. All 3 hots go dead when 3 is off

 

[CJ7VFR]

It appears by the pictures you drew, that the source of the power is coming in via the left set of wires in the "outlet" box, and the outlet is getting its hot hookup via the switched set of wires on the right side.

As mentioned before, this is called a switched leg, where the neutral wire and black wire from the switch are used to send switched power to the outlet. In these cases, the neutral wire should have been colored "black" at the ends, either using some black tape, or a black sharpie, to designate it as a switched "hot".

With all the wires disconnected at your "outlet box", if you test just the black and white wires from the set on the left side of your picture, you should get 120v with the breaker on. And if you test the black and white wires on the right side of your picture of the "outlet box" you shouldn't get any voltage with the breaker on.

If this is the case, then your power is indeed coming in from the wires on the left side, and the hot is the switched leg that is going up to the switch and back down to the outlet.

If not, then who knows what is going on!

Jim

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Oddly enough, left, right and switch all have 120. This is what's confusing me. I have my newly run 14-2 on the right side wires... lol

 

[CJ7VFR]

Strange. Are there any other wires in the "switch box" besides the one that is actually connected to the switch?

Can you take a picture of the wires that are in the "switch box" and the wires that are in the "outlet box"?

That would help.

Jim

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Switch box

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Outlet box. Don't mind the yellow cable, that's box is being replaced. Just focus on the wires

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

 

[AntonLargiader]

You have three cables in what you label "Switch box" where your diagram showed two, and you show a third box that you haven't described. Why not update your sketch.

 

[DirtyJersey]

That's the thing. Breaker 3 turns off that outlet and switch as well as one in tyre room on the other side of the wall. Outlets in the living room as well as the bathroom. All 3 hots go dead when 3 is off

Start disconnecting outlets, lights....turn breaker on
Wash, rinse, repeat until those hots stay dead. Then you've found your source

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[wyliesdiesels]

You have three cables in what you label "Switch box" where your diagram showed two, and you show a third box that you haven't described. Why not update your sketch.

27 is the switch box and there is only 1 cable in it.

28 and 29 are the same box.

Yellow cable is the additional new cable he added for the fan.

He is trying to kill power to the switch loop.

Since its disconnected at the outlet box i dont see hoe it still has power unless it has a connection somewhere else.

OP- u need an NM-b clamp on that box.

 

[DirtyJersey]

You have three cables in what you label "Switch box" where your diagram showed two, and you show a third box that you haven't described. Why not update your sketch.

1st pic is switch box, i see 1 cable

Next 2 look to be the same outlet box...but who really knows! Lol

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[DirtyJersey]

27 is the switch box and there is only 1 cable in it.

28 and 29 are the same box.

Yellow cable is the additional new cable he added for the fan.

He is trying to kill power to the switch loop.

Since its disconnected at the outlet box i dont see hoe it still has power unless it has a connection somewhere else.

OP- u need an NM-b clamp on that box.

Eggsactly!

Im confused how switch would still have power, if indeed it is disconnected in outlet box.


Are you sure its not tied into a light in that room, or next?


Hard to see
But if 2 blacks are together, you will still get power too switch.

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[justsam]

Is your light load still in the circuit? Make sure you are not just seeing 120 VAC which is being passed through the load such as an incandescent light bulb and your high impedance DMM sees it as 120VAC.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

You have three cables in what you label "Switch box" where your diagram showed two, and you show a third box that you haven't described. Why not update your sketch.

The third is the one I just ran. It is not original to my question

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

1st pic is switch box, i see 1 cable

Next 2 look to be the same outlet box...but who really knows! Lol

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Yes, same box different angles

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

27 is the switch box and there is only 1 cable in it.

28 and 29 are the same box.

Yellow cable is the additional new cable he added for the fan.

He is trying to kill power to the switch loop.

Since its disconnected at the outlet box i dont see hoe it still has power unless it has a connection somewhere else.

OP- u need an NM-b clamp on that box.

I know. That's why I said don't mind it . Changing the whole box out, its loose

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Eggsactly!

Im confused how switch would still have power, if indeed it is disconnected in outlet box.


Are you sure its not tied into a light in that room, or next?


Hard to see
But if 2 blacks are together, you will still get power too switch.

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I had all wires separated out when initially diagnosing this, individually. All 3 hots had voltage.
No other lights in the room. Room had 1 switch when you walked in and 3 outlets. That's all the electrical in that room. Now I've taken out the switch which ran the outlet and took that outlet out as well. So now 2 outlets and a ceiling fan ran off of one set of the romex cables in the outlet box and the others capped off

 

[wyliesdiesels]

what are you using to test the wires for voltage?