How long has spray foam been popular for?

[Hobby_Man22]

Is this the newest trend? I just see it as a nightmare years down the road when it comes time to tear down and remodel a portion of a building/roof etc.

 

[OJKD]

Fairly common for at least 10 years. It is a bit of work to remove, but when you are removing old insulation it is probably not a small job anyways.

 

[Showkey]

It still be a nightmare, it also by far the most expensive. It does work well and if you have a limited space for insulation it often is the only choice to get the required R value.

 

[yeldogt]

I had a spray foam house experience a fire --- it added to the cost of the project -- but not much. The foam also saved the house structure ...?

With 2x6 construction typically not everything is filled in the walls ...so there is a gap.

How often does this really occur? it's rare you have to go back into a cavity -- mostly what happens with a remodel ... parts get cut off

 

[rsanter]

I have known about it for around 15 years

 

[Bert_]

There was spray foam 40 years ago but not sure it was the same stuff. It had problems with shrinking and leaving gaps in the wall back then.

 

[Jim greengo]

I've used the stuff in the cans for 40 years,big learning curve for filling gaps with regular versus triple expanding.
Not sure how long the spray gun version has been around though.
I've them use the grating tool I guess you'd call it that rides along outside of studs to level it out.

 

[yeldogt]

I did my first spray around 1990 -- it was not new.

 

[Toyomech]

Our company has been in business installing spray foam since 1977. Our owner worked for his father before that who started in the late 60's. We have never had a nightmare warranty claim thankfully, and have installed millions of sq ft of closed cell foam. It is far from a new unproven product. Nasa uses closed cell foam on the shuttle and our military used tons of it overseas in war zones. The NFL saints stadium is spray foamed. Texas A&M campus has something like 7 million sq ft of spray foam. Ford Plants and other major companies use spray foam. None of these players would use an untested product.

In fact, foam is used all around you in your daily life. Your refrigerator is insulated with foam. Your car seats, couch cushions are foam. Coolers, boats, helmets, maybe even the bed and pillow you sleep on at night.

The problem is contractors thinking foam is the newest get rich scheme who tarnish the product. Spray foam itself is a proven insulation with 99% of rumors about it being completely baseless.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Depends where you live. Some places got it before it trickled down to the more rural areas. Since the price has come down, more and more guys are doing it, creating competition and bringing the price down even farther.

 

[nadogail]

If you are talking about the aerosol foam in in cans, I first started using it sometime in the '80s.

 

[Countyroadtrailers]

I own a camper that was factory sprayed, in 1972. Have another one factory sprayed from 1983, needless to say you can heat or cool either one very easily, so even at 50 years old it seems like it was a good investment.

 

[75gmck25]

I also see a lot of articles about using "flash and batt" insulation on a 6" thick wall, where they use a 2" layer of closed cell foam to provide the sealing and initial insulation value, followed by traditional batt insulation to raise the R value further.

In addition to any insulation consideration, one advantage I see with flash and batt is that you still have space to run traditional wiring in the wall without embedding it in the spray foam. That could make it easier down the road to run new wiring or pipes in the wall.

When I was pricing foam insulation for my house I also had some vendors who offered one layer of closed cell for sealing and R value, followed by a 2nd layer of open cell. It seemed to be cheaper than all closed cell, but I never really made a direct comparison. I ended up using Icynene open cell foam, since it was a good price point vs. R value for a standard 2x4 wall.

Bruce

 

[yatg]

At least 30 years ago saw it used on This Old House. Sort of remember they would overfill the bays, let it cure, then saw off the excess to make it flush with the studs.

 

[yeldogt]

I also see a lot of articles about using "flash and batt" insulation on a 6" thick wall, where they use a 2" layer of closed cell foam to provide the sealing and initial insulation value, followed by traditional batt insulation to raise the R value further.

In addition to any insulation consideration, one advantage I see with flash and batt is that you still have space to run traditional wiring in the wall without embedding it in the spray foam. That could make it easier down the road to run new wiring or pipes in the wall.

When I was pricing foam insulation for my house I also had some vendors who offered one layer of closed cell for sealing and R value, followed by a 2nd layer of open cell. It seemed to be cheaper than all closed cell, but I never really made a direct comparison. I ended up using Icynene open cell foam, since it was a good price point vs. R value for a standard 2x4 wall.

Bruce

The product has come down in price .... I did a flash and batt years ago ... you did the heavy 2" and then used the high density fiberglass ... not quite 3.5 but still R 13 to fit into the wall. So you ended up with at least an R 27. Today you often see heavy 3 and 5 inch ceilings. So it's 21+ and 35+ ..... I would rather have 3" foam than the 2" flash and batt ... I did the heavy 4" on my current project ... it was not much more.

 

[Toyomech]

The product has come down in price ....

Negative Sir. The chemical price has only gone up. It used to be dramatically cheaper 20-30 years ago. We just had another major price hike in December. Perhaps in your area as more and more contractors get in the business they are driving down the installed price to compete, but the raw materials have never decreased in price.

 

[karoc]

I'm not a fan of spray foam due to cost, and wanting to build a pole barn I always wonder how they control condensation before spray foam. But the side effects of what spray foam does for you besides creating a sound booth, stop condensation, and increases strength of a building( to an extent) it gives R valve with cost of very little space. Once I get to the point of having to pick either or, I just may have to go with the spray foam at least for the roof. Personal experience: 20 yrs ago or more I had to knock out a piece of brick to stick piece of 2" pvc through the wall. After my temporary plumbing I remove the 2"pipe and being the lazy guy I am I filled it up with can of HD spray foam. Well I haven't got back to that project, foam is still there, kinda powdery to the touch on surface and has turned dark brown. Well the brick is brown

 

[LX-Markham]

I remember my father spray foaming a roof in the barn when I was a kid. So it’s been around a while.

Now I spray foamed my garage a few years ago. A bit pricey, but it provided a solution for which there was no other. Not to mention the added rigidity to the entire structure.

 

[yeldogt]

Negative Sir. The chemical price has only gone up. It used to be dramatically cheaper 20-30 years ago. We just had another major price hike in December. Perhaps in your area as more and more contractors get in the business they are driving down the installed price to compete, but the raw materials have never decreased in price.

I'm talking overall cost in relation to other possible choices and the relative cost of the labor...

"Product" = cost to do a spray foam. Not what is in the drum

Years ago there was more pricing power ....

 

[Jazz1]

I installed urea formaldehyde insulation in homes mid ‘70’s. Awesome stuff until it was deemed the product weaped toxic fumes,, then out came govt grants to remove

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I installed urea formaldehyde insulation in homes mid ‘70’s. Awesome stuff until it was deemed the product weaped toxic fumes,, then out came govt grants to remove

Interesting. The mineral wool insulation I used supposedly uses formaldahyde to glue it all together or something like that. It smells like piss when it gets wet which I wonder if that's the formaldahyde. It did go away once I removed from the bags. Although I do have half a trailer full that I haven't opened yet that still smells a bit like it that I just noticed yesterday walking by. Might just take it back and go to another store since the stuff clearly got left in the rain somehow.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

The stuff in the 70s is totally different from the foams in use today, which have been around long enough to prove themselves.

 

[billspit]

There was a builder in my town in the 70s that was using spray foam. It was the stuff that resulted in the class action law suit.

 

[hilld]

I spray foamed my pole barn in 2008 (I think). Since then I have used it in 3 other houses, most recently my garage still under construction. Love the stuff, but you better get your wires/conduit in the walls first, otherwise they go on the outside.

 

[dcg9381]

I've been using it since 2009. I had to push a custom home builder to use it. It was relatively new then and he's used it in every home in the last 12 years that he's built since. I used it in our 40x60x16 shop and I'm using it in a new residence that I'm building.

It does cost more, substantially more than bat insulation. But you won't find an better product for "sealing the envelope".

There are cases where I wouldn't use it - any case where I can easily insulate the outside walls (I'd use it on the roof)...

Sure, installs can go sideways due to poor mix and installer error.

In my experience, you simply can't beat the performance of a spray foam home versus a traditionally insulated home.. At least a traditionally insulated home where "typical care" is used for installing the bat or blown-in insulation.

For those that are concerned about voiding corrosion warranties on steel shops - I'd point out that those warranties usually only cover the cost of the steel sheets (not the labor to replace them). I'd also see if you can find any case of spray foam causing corrosion on steel panels - at least where a leak didn't exist....

 

[bams50]

A couple questions-

1. I'm doing a pole barn and want a flat ceiling. Plan to do spray foam in the walls, but what's the best way to do the ceiling?

2. Plan is to spray foam the walls, then finish the inside with the same tin, then do wiring in conduit on top of the interior tin. I figured the main advantage is it's easier to modify as needs change. Good idea?

 

[hilld]

If you spray foam the entire thing including ceilings, you don't have to do vents. You can then install some 2x6 on the trusses to hang your sheet rock from for your flat ceilings. Perhaps even put in a ladder for free storage above.

 

[Nivekdodge]

Fiberglass is for Vettes and boats!

 

[bbbarracuda]

Back in the late 70's a friend had foam put into his old farmhouse that was probably 100 years old at that time. He and his wife were told to leave for a day or 2 to let the smell clear. When they returned, the foam had expanded so much, it popped huge chunks of plaster off the walls in several rooms. Pretty much, had to tear it all out and redo the walls and while it was open put in bat insulation.

 

[dcg9381]

>1. I'm doing a pole barn and want a flat ceiling. Plan to do spray foam in the walls, but what's the best way to do the ceiling?

To me, it's easier to insulate the walls than the ceiling and the ceiling is the main place where you get heat gain/loss, so I'd do the opposite. If you want a flat ceiling, I assume you're talking about an attic - so that's a little different as it's easier to insulate.


> 2. Plan is to spray foam the walls, then finish the inside with the same tin, then do wiring in conduit on top of the interior tin. I figured the main advantage is it's easier to modify as needs change. Good idea?[/QUOTE]


There are 14 ways to do it and your idea is fine. For me, I spray foamed the walls (and ceiling), then framed out from the perlins. This gave me space for electrical and PEX. I used OSB for walls and if I need to change something, I just pull off the 4x8 OSB. Metal skin with conduit on top is fine too... Whatever works.

 

[skulldrinker]

Holmes show used it since they been on TV

And blue wood. Never saw that anywhere else.


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[hilld]

It is a Canada thing from what I understand.