How much land?

[tegguy]

Ok my situation is I am about to graduate college next spring and at that time if everything goes good my girlfriend and I will both sell our houses (we each own one) and move in together in a new house. My question is I need a lot with enough room I can build a shop on. I have no idea of the size of the shop I will need nor the amount of land I will need. I own 5 cars (3 classics) 1 truck a motorcycle and an ATV and my girlfriend owns her car. I plan on purchasing a car trailer when I move as well and would like to keep that in at least a covered area. I need a shop where I can have at least 1 probably 2 lifts (I don't mind parking one car on top of the lift and one under) but I need enough room to restore cars and also do other projects. 2 of the cars will be kept in the house garage.

1) Being realistic and not breaking the bank how big of a shop would be recommended (I know you can never have one too big) lets say I wanted to spend at an absolute max 30K for everything (shop, lift, doors, ect) and it would be central Florida and

2) how much land at a minimum would I need to be able to build that shop (I was thinking .5 acre but I don't really know what that looks like).

Thanks

 

[Falcon67]

An acre is 43,600 sq/ft, or a square about 208' on a side. ( thanks google for the last tidbit). Land comes in many sizes, shapes and colors so you'll just really have to look. We have about 1/4 acre here and it's quite a bit. Don't forget it's also like having a 3000 sq/ft house -somebody has to mop that big kitchen and vacuum all that carpet .

If you are contracting out, 30K is not going to get you much IMHO. If I raised my 24x40 and added a lift, I'd be around 18K and I hauled every board, drove every screw and nail, owned every tool. I hear from your wants at least 26~28d x 36~40w, 12' wall. If I was parking 2 lifts and wanted restore room, I'd be thinking 30 x 40 to 50 x 12. (edit - 12' high.)

Note- metal building are typically cheaper than stick, but the interior finish may/will add a lot to the cost.

 

[tegguy]

50X12

?? I think you have a typo

Unfortunately I don't believe I have the skill nor the time to do everything by myself. I wouldn't mind doing the electrical or at least some of it. I guess it's also a decision of metal building vs traditional wood. I guess I could finish the inside by myself it's just the main structure I'm concerned about.

I'm just trying to get an idea and plan ahead so it's not a shock nor a rush when the time comes. I don't mind the cleaning I hate a messy garage however it seems like I live in one right now since it's too small

 

[RCman]

Falcon67 has it right. Those are some large goals for a $30k budget, especially for hiring the work out.

One thing to keep in mind is the ability to swing around a trailer. I knew when I bought my lot that I had to be able to pull into the drive and turn around. I don't live on a busy road (quite the opposite really, thankfully) but with a driveway that is over 600' long and curves I didn't want to be backing up it with a trailer all the time.

 

[tegguy]

Since both of you are in agreement as far as the budget is not adequate can you give me some rough numbers for a realistic budget and what I can get for said budget?

I really don't have a basis for the numbers I'm throwing I'm just estimating what our combined income will be and what our house payment will be and trying to run the numbers with some theoretical stuff.

 

[Need4racin]

For what you want to do a 50x50 shop minimum. 1 acre of land.

 

[tegguy]

For what you want to do a 50x50 shop minimum. 1 acre of land.

I think that just went way out of my price range

 

[Need4racin]

typical basic garages on homes are 20x20. I can barely fit two fullsize broncos in there with nothing in the garage. A 50x50 would be too cramp to even do what you want.

 

[BWS]

I don't "like" paying taxes......but it really beats going to jail,duh.

For us,realestate taxes is the primary concern.Our shop is 3k sqft.....been here for 25 years.Our next shop will be 1/2 that.

 

[larry_g]

2) how much land at a minimum would I need to be able to build that shop (I was thinking .5 acre but I don't really know what that looks like).

Thanks

1/2 an acre would be a bit less than 1/2 a football field. A football field is 1.2 acres.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Need4racin]

Get the acre and the house, you can always build the shop later. One where you won't feel like you're in a chinese sweat camp, unless you sell some of your vehicles.

 

[tegguy]

Get the acre and the house, you can always build the shop later. One were you won't feel like you're in a chinese sweat camp, unless you sell some of your vehicles.

vehicles are coming with but I won't let them sit outside (1955 thunderbird, 1972 chevelle, 1969 Triumph TR6) this is going to be a logistics nightmare trying to sell my house and her house and move everything. Whats a rough cost for a shop (say 50x50) both building only and everything (electrical plumbing ect)

 

[Toomanytools?]

Well I don't know how a pole building would do in Florida, not great would be my guess. In my state WA. pole building goes for about $20/sqft that is just shell and concrete and insulation. I'm guessing you would build a block building? To many variables to say but $30K might get you 1200 square feet or a 30x40. Which would fill up fast with all your stuff. Lot size depends on shape and how big the house is, 1/2 acre would most likely work. Good luck

 

[tegguy]

Sounds like I'll need at least an acre and maybe some skill to convince the girlfriend to move farther from work. As far as cost for the shop goes what are some realistic guestimates?

 

[Need4racin]

I don't know costs, or have I ever built a building. But a steel building should be fine for your area. I know of people who had them in south georgia. I have one clean low mileage truck, it's a pain in the *** keeping it clean and garaged. Sometimes I wish I only had two beater vehicles I could careless about. It would be more time saved, less money spent imo.

 

[930dreamer]

Other option is to lease a building for a while. This will give you some time.

 

[Falcon67]

Sounds like I'll need at least an acre and maybe some skill to convince the girlfriend to move farther from work. As far as cost for the shop goes what are some realistic guestimates?

That is pretty location specific and hard to answer if the responder isn't local. I paid $4.25 sq/ft for my slab, in Houston it may be $6~$8. Might talk to some local people in real estate to get an idea what the cost per sq/ft is running for accessory buildings. I'm busting to stay under $15 sq/ft DIY, I can easily see this being $30~45 here. New houses run anywhere from $99~140 around here.

 

[tegguy]

I have one clean low mileage truck, it's a pain in the *** keeping it clean and garaged. Sometimes I wish I only had two beater vehicles I could careless about. It would be more time saved, less money spent imo.

I know how you feel there. The 1955 T-bird is my girlfriends dad's car he was forced to sell it and I could tell she really cared for the car it's currently sitting in a storage unit. The 1969 Triumph TR-6 was a good friend of mines dad when I was in high school it had a 302 in it until they blew 2nd gear of the transmission his dad gave it to him for his 18th birthday and he was forced to sell it. I always loved the look of the car and can't wait to restore it and put a big motor in it (it's sat for about 20 years but has very minimal rust) currently it's in a storage unit I share with my dad in Oregon. My 1972 Chevelle I purchased January 2011 mid restoration off a shop owner who was building it for himself. It's currently in my garage here in Florida and I am slowly working on it hoping to drive it one day. I always loved the look of the Chevelle and got it for a price I couldn't pass up. Then I have my Acura I've had since I was in high school (I'm 26 now) it needs a little work and doesn't get driven right now but I can't bring myself to let it go because of sentimental value. I do plan to drive it occasionally once I get it to where I want it. Then I have my truck and my Infiniti which is my daily driver right now. My 2002 R1 and my 2006 Raptor 700.

I know I've heard it before too many cars for one person.

 

[tegguy]

Other option is to lease a building for a while. This will give you some time.

I've though about this but am afraid the monthly costs would make it too steep. I'm probably going to have to for a little while when I graduate school cause I imagine my house will be sold and we will live in hers for a little while until we find another one to buy. (Damn these logistics ****)

 

[Falcon67]

>I know I've heard it before too many cars for one person.
I would personally refute all such claims.

 

[Highbeam]

You need one acre and a 40x60 size shop. I have a 30x60 on one acre and that makes 4 "bays". Pole barn materials cost was about 20,000$ and double the materials cost for contractor built.

 

[tegguy]

>I know I've heard it before too many cars for one person.
I would personally refute all such claims.

glad to hear your on my side

 

[tegguy]

Let me know this question out there. I have never built a house or anything the biggest thing I've built is a fence. How hard would it be for myself to build most or even some of the building (metal or wood or block)? I would obviously hire out the concrete.

I am a hands on person I spent 6 years as an aircraft mechanic, I'm getting a degree in Aerospace Engineering, and I work on all my own cars I just don't have the knowledge of house construction.

 

[sam03]

There is no such thing is too many cars! And i would buy as much land as you can afford. With those toys you need space to enjoy them. Where in Florida are you?

 

[tegguy]

There is no such thing is too many cars! And i would buy as much land as you can afford. With those toys you need space to enjoy them. Where in Florida are you?

I'm in Daytona Beach right now but my girlfriend lives in the Orlando area. I'm hoping to get a job in the Orlando area

 

[Falcon67]

If you can score a degree in some field of Engineering, you can build a shop - and would likely enjoy how your engineering/planning translates into a real building.

Good source of info on construction, but house related - used it as one reference for my build:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1561589675/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This might be good:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1580114431/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have good general construction book at the house but will have to look up the title for you. I "think" it's the second edition of this, but don't remember exactly
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1856178056/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Reference Tables - good for smaller footprint.
http://www.southernpine.com/span-tables-landing.asp?redirect=true

If you go wide (like more than 24' clear), you'll be buying trusses from a lumber yard so that takes care of most of your roof framing.

 

[930dreamer]

Good time to look at the lay of the land, with all the rain in Florida.

 

[John in OH]

Cost is very difficult to forecast as it is very location specific. Style of construction is major consideration ... pole barn vs. steel vs. masonry, etc. What level of interior finish is desired? Do you want a bathroom or at least a wash sink? Do you want attic storage? The questions can go on and on .... and they all impact cost.

Be careful where you buy your house! You could work up a size and cost estimate for a pole barn, but then find that zoning in the location you buy your house doesn't allow pole barns. Same could go for a steel building. Some locations limit the footprint of a detached building to be only a certain percentage of the house footprint. Do you and girlfriend/wife want a big yard? Does she like to garden? Do either of you want a pool now or in future? All this may impact where you want to house hunt and what you can afford.

This is not a quickie question to answer. Start by getting a sheet of graph paper and begin laying out the scaled dimensions of your cars, storage areas, benches, work areas, major tools (such as air compressor, table saw, welding equip., etc), stairs to upper storage, bathroom, etc. This will give you a idea of the square footage required. (You may be able to include an open sided carport type lean-to on the side or rear for your trailer and/or work car parking.) Then look for ways to double-use floor space ... for instance, if you have a table saw maybe you can keep it jammed against a wall when not in use then back a car into the driveway and pull the saw out into the vacant parking space when you need the saw. Same for welding or painting work. Also, try various building/use configurations with the idea of efficient space use. Before I built my shop I probably considered several dozen potential building configurations before I settled on a final layout and final dimensions.

After you get an estimate of size and configuration, then decide what you want for the style (pole, steel, masonry, etc.) and how classy you may want the building to look. A pre-engineered, pre-packaged, rectangular plain-Jane pole barn is much cheaper than a shop whose exterior is designed to have some character, look nice or to match the house design or cool like an old gas station style. Same question for interior ... open studs with no insulation? Insulation only? Drywall? Ceiling finish? No ceiling? Lighting? Also, what needs to built now vs. what can be finished later?

After all of the above is more or less defined, then you can start working on an estimated cost.

This all probably isn't much help to you, but it's very hard for anyone other than YOU to answer the size, acreage, cost questions you have posed until you have a better grasp of what you really want.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I'm of the firm belief that each man on earth should be entitled to own a maximum of 1 non-drivable project car at a time.

If you haven't had time or money to get one of them running in the last several years, why is next year going to be different? Or, the year after that?

Trim your fleet to 1 and your "problem" becomes much easier to solve. Based on my experience, you can take one $5000 project car, 10 years of most your spare time, and about $25,000 cash and end up with a decent car that would bring $18,000 all day long if you needed to sell it.


This being said...I have 5 bays (garage plus barn) on a bit over an acre that also has my house on it. It's a nice fit.

Phil

 

[tegguy]

I'm of the firm belief that each man on earth should be entitled to own a maximum of 1 non-drivable project car at a time.

If you haven't had time or money to get one of them running in the last several years, why is next year going to be different? Or, the year after that?

Trim your fleet to 1 and your "problem" becomes much easier to solve. Based on my experience, you can take one $5000 project car, 10 years of most your spare time, and about $25,000 cash and end up with a decent car that would bring $18,000 all day long if you needed to sell it.


This being said...I have 5 bays (garage plus barn) on a bit over an acre that also has my house on it. It's a nice fit.

Phil

Very easy reason why they haven't been finished in the past year. I have been in school non stop and also getting pilots certificates. Not to mention my space available is small and hard to get anything done in it. I don't plan to add anymore until these are done but I also don't plan on selling any unless financial needs require it. I have owned 1 barely over a year and another less than a year. I enjoy turning wrenches it is how I unwind and escape.

Either way what are the dimensions of your garage and barn?

 

[tegguy]

Cost is very difficult to forecast as it is very location specific. Style of construction is major consideration ... pole barn vs. steel vs. masonry, etc. What level of interior finish is desired? Do you want a bathroom or at least a wash sink? Do you want attic storage? The questions can go on and on .... and they all impact cost.

Be careful where you buy your house! You could work up a size and cost estimate for a pole barn, but then find that zoning in the location you buy your house doesn't allow pole barns. Same could go for a steel building. Some locations limit the footprint of a detached building to be only a certain percentage of the house footprint. Do you and girlfriend/wife want a big yard? Does she like to garden? Do either of you want a pool now or in future? All this may impact where you want to house hunt and what you can afford.

This is not a quickie question to answer. Start by getting a sheet of graph paper and begin laying out the scaled dimensions of your cars, storage areas, benches, work areas, major tools (such as air compressor, table saw, welding equip., etc), stairs to upper storage, bathroom, etc. This will give you a idea of the square footage required. (You may be able to include an open sided carport type lean-to on the side or rear for your trailer and/or work car parking.) Then look for ways to double-use floor space ... for instance, if you have a table saw maybe you can keep it jammed against a wall when not in use then back a car into the driveway and pull the saw out into the vacant parking space when you need the saw. Same for welding or painting work. Also, try various building/use configurations with the idea of efficient space use. Before I built my shop I probably considered several dozen potential building configurations before I settled on a final layout and final dimensions.

After you get an estimate of size and configuration, then decide what you want for the style (pole, steel, masonry, etc.) and how classy you may want the building to look. A pre-engineered, pre-packaged, rectangular plain-Jane pole barn is much cheaper than a shop whose exterior is designed to have some character, look nice or to match the house design or cool like an old gas station style. Same question for interior ... open studs with no insulation? Insulation only? Drywall? Ceiling finish? No ceiling? Lighting? Also, what needs to built now vs. what can be finished later?

After all of the above is more or less defined, then you can start working on an estimated cost.

This all probably isn't much help to you, but it's very hard for anyone other than YOU to answer the size, acreage, cost questions you have posed until you have a better grasp of what you really want.

Thanks for the info. I know it's hard for anyone to estimate what it would cost for someone else finishes. I do plan to have a bathroom and obvious really good lighting. I don't need attic space that will be what the spare areas in the house is for. I do plan to insulate it to hopefully keep the temperatures down (or up) depending on the season. As far as exterior look I want it to match the house but I don't need anything fancy. Before I enter a contract on any house I will have 1) read any HOA docs that there are 2) talked to the city/county to see what their restrictions are. I'll probably start with open studs and plan to drywall it later on my own if I choose it but it will also be determined if I go metal or wood or mason.

I know people can estimate 20000-120000. I guess I'm looking for size and amount people on here have spent on their garage and if they built it on their own or contractor so I can possibly get an idea of cost per sq ft.

Yes a yard is important for the dog and future kids.

 

[tegguy]

If you can score a degree in some field of Engineering, you can build a shop - and would likely enjoy how your engineering/planning translates into a real building.

Good source of info on construction, but house related - used it as one reference for my build:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1561589675/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This might be good:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1580114431/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have good general construction book at the house but will have to look up the title for you. I "think" it's the second edition of this, but don't remember exactly
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1856178056/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Reference Tables - good for smaller footprint.
http://www.southernpine.com/span-tables-landing.asp?redirect=true

If you go wide (like more than 24' clear), you'll be buying trusses from a lumber yard so that takes care of most of your roof framing.

Thanks Falcon I'll check out these tonight. If you can let me know of the good general construction book when you get a chance.

 

[pmason0]

I would think 1 acre at a minimum, but I'm one that I would buy as much land as I could afford as they don't make it any more

 

[LutzTD]

I have 1.6 acres and Im very happy with the size. My house is set back with a 1/2 acre front yard with the remainder in the back. I plan for a 40x60. When you buy make sure you do not get into a situation with permitting that will limit your building size to a subset of your house, mine is limited to a percentage of the yard, which would allow me a 100x100 if I wanted, my freind in Tampa was only allowed 40-50% of the house sqft. Stay in unincorporated areas, cities will kill you with all of their zoning and codes. also, in case your thinking 5-10 acres, 1.6 is about as much as I would ever want to mow, grass grows fast and thick here.

 

[tegguy]

I have 1.6 acres and Im very happy with the size. My house is set back with a 1/2 acre front yard with the remainder in the back. I plan for a 40x60. When you buy make sure you do not get into a situation with permitting that will limit your building size to a subset of your house, mine is limited to a percentage of the yard, which would allow me a 100x100 if I wanted, my freind in Tampa was only allowed 40-50% of the house sqft. Stay in unincorporated areas, cities will kill you with all of their zoning and codes. also, in case your thinking 5-10 acres, 1.6 is about as much as I would ever want to mow, grass grows fast and thick here.

Yes grass does my backyard alone is a pain but I don't have a riding mower. I would like land but not a lot I think the absolute max I would go is 5 and even then I don't think I'd like it. It's going to be tough but I don't want to be somewhere I have to drive a half hour to go grocery shopping.

 

[bluejeep]

My 40X50 welded steel building including the slab ( which has a 10ft patio on the back) has cost me around $50K so far. I am getting ready to do the electirical but really dont have a good feel for that cost yet.

 

[Krash Kadillak]

Some long posts, haven't read every one, so this may be duplicating...

In your situation, I'd first look around for an existing property that has a decent house and shop already. If you get lucky and find something, it's far easier than the time, money and aggravation to do it yourself.

If you decide to find a place and build your own, before you buy, find out the building restrictions for the lot first. You may need to 'shop around' between communities to find one that allows you to build what you want and/or has the less hassle as far as permits.

Talk to neighbors, ask if any have done shops, get their experience with the code guys.

 

[6768rogues]

I suggest that you consult your local building department and read the zoning and building laws yourself. Some places have restrictions. In my town, they wanted to pass a law limiting residential sites to one outbuilding, but it failed. My son's town does not allow a garage with a larger footprint than the house, and it must be behind the front line of the house. Better to be knowledgeable than regret it later.

 

[ihredo4]

>I know I've heard it before too many cars for one person.
I would personally refute all such claims.

Best way I have had it described is 1 Car is too many and 100 is not enough!

I too think you need 1 acre minimum and the building in the 40x60 12 or 14 walls minimum.

Price would be too area specific to even venture a guess. Sorry

Good luck.

 

[Sureshot]

Remember you can always add on to the shop. Plan it that way and then it could be real easy. You could end up with clean parking side and a dirty working area.