How much longer can Matco keep up the charade

[plinker]

See, to me this mentality is as outdated as the tool truck model. I have over the ears had many techs who showed up to work and used Mastercraft / Craftsman and whatever else they got at Princess Auto (our version of Harbor Freight) and got the job done

There is something to this, Where I worked last some had just enough to do what they needed. The trend that annoyed me was them hiring a few guys with nothing or next to it. I ended up having to loan stuff so they could actually do something.

I dont mind helping someone out, but buy something to use regardless what brand it is. The one kid I had shown a few different online sites like tooltopia, Cripe dist, & others, He still bought most everything from Matco (slowly I might add) because of the payment plan.

The thing with tools is if it breaks/dosent work/ete.. you can upgrade as needed.

 

[toolman9w]

It’s pretty obvious who does it professionally and who doesn’t. Trucks aren’t aimed at DIY and never will. Until you work 50+ hours in a shop to make a living a lot of you won’t understand.

We just had a huge thread on this not too long ago with a good discussion. You are going to be judged by your box and tools wether some diy guy in the internet agrees with that or not.

DIY will never get it. Some techs won't get it. I get it and always have. Koolaid or not I've always been a Tool truck fan. Is what it is.

 

[toolman9w]

Also can't believe another hate Matco thread went 5 pages.

 

[Wamsutta]

Also can't believe another hate Matco thread went 5 pages.

Have you seen the hate Hercules miter saw thread? It's up to 11 pages.

 

[xin]

How long can the tool trucks/Matco keep up the charade? As long as people are buying $900 Cell phones and $7 cups of coffee from Starbucks. No one ******* when 35¢ worth of coffee is delivered in a 35¢ cup and they pay $7 and it's pissed out 2hrs later. Why are you bitching about the cost of tools that likely will last a lifetime?
Actually let's amortize that $7 coffee over a year say 4 days a week. $28 a week, $112 a month, $1300 a year. You just pissed out $1300 in one year!
I'll take $1300 in Matco tools and drink tap water thank you.

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I been sayin that forever!

That ain't nothin people spend THOUSANDS on cigs/liquor no questions asked.

 

[Tallpilot]

I think the conclusion of these threads is always the same. If you have truck service from brand X and your 'driver' takes care of you then it is a valuable service and you are willing to pay extra mark-up for the convenience. Everyone else reacts with befuddlement or derision.

I understand the criticism of the predatory financing terms. However that is pretty much the business model for most sectors of the economy. I read an article a few weeks ago that said the average negative equity in car loans is over $5,000 and the majority of new car buyers roll negative equity from their trade in loan balance into the new loan. That's idiotic but a rediculous number of people do it.

I eschew debt after getting in trouble with it when I was younger. But I suppose owing money for tools is far less foolish than owing money for a big TV.

 

[Wamsutta]

My main attraction to truck brand tools is their physical shape and how they fit in my hand. Cheap tools are never comfortable.

 

[Jim c]

Back in the 80’s, when I worked at an auto shop, I purchased my tools mainly from the Matco tool truck man, and I still have those tools today. I can remember that when I came home with my impact socket set, for which I paid $250.00, my father was angry with me for buying something that he felt I didn’t need and/or was just way too extravagant. ( he had an office job and his tools were just a hobby). And I really could never explain it to him how very indispensable those impact sockets were and how, back in the 1980”s, there really was no “cheap” substitute; you either made your impact socket purchase from the tool truck or you did not have impact sockets that would hold up to real work. The cheapies would simply crack within the first week of use. There were guys at our shop who would spend like $25 dollars on a set of really junky cheapo Chinese impacts that some guy would be pawning out of the back of a car; these guys would just show up out of nowhere at the shop with a really strange collection of brand new tools for sale really cheap. The guys who did buy them would always laugh and joke about how long they had had their impacts and how nobody would ever even want to steal them because of how cheap they were and how much money they had saved. Then one day, every time, they would be pounding away on an impact and “ crack”. Then they would always be coming over to borrow that size that was now missing from their set.
I guess what I am saying is that there really was and is a place for the tool truck; he comes rolling in and gives you a break from work to look at pretty tools. Everything is high quality and he will let you walk off the truck with it for just a little cash, your signature and a regular weekly payment. I paid off all of my essential sockets that I had financed and moved on to making purchases from other ore affordable sources when possible. I guess that I was lucky enough to identify the tool man as a big profit man, but back then you still had to purchase impacts from only the tool man. Today we have so many really good alternatives to the tool truck that I am not really sure the tool truck has quite the job security that he had back in the 1980’s . Today it seems like the cheap tools are stronger than ever and even lower in price than ever too. Today hf and northern tool are like a bonanza for guys just starting out; you could go down there with one paycheck and load up on everything that you would need from hf pro series impacts (and they don’t freaking break either). Buy your impacts from northern tool air cat brand with coupon (better than what we used to get from the truck and cheaper too) .

 

[Tallpilot]

See, to me this mentality is as outdated as the tool truck model. I have over the ears had many techs who showed up to work and used Mastercraft / Craftsman and whatever else they got at Princess Auto (our version of Harbor Freight) and got the job done, collected their salary and raised their families. We work 55 hour work weeks as a matter of routine, so please tell me how I am supposed to judge my staff? If a man does good work, he's a good tech - holding a Matco wrench isn't some magic wand that fixes stupid. I do not care what brand of tool box someone has, or what is in that box as long as the job is done. The shop next door too has a couple of 310T techs with a few decades of experience who rock the HF 4-drawer tool cart and non-truck boxes. I guess I ought to tell them they aren't serious professionals and they shouldn't be touching 1/4million dollar trucks. Welcome to 2018, the world may have changed a little...

Thank you. All of these threads are full of posts claiming that you can't get hired anywhere without a high end box because that is how shop owners / managers evaluate potential new hires.

 

[redwrench60]

I think it’s funny how much hate and loathing about tools goes on in a tool discussion forum. When I joined this site everyone was posting pics of their sets and complimenting one another and asking questions. These days it seems all newer members want to do is ***** about other people’s tools. You post up a large collection of quality USA made tools in a pro quality tool box here, prepare to be judged

 

[Alpine4x4]

I think it’s funny how much hate and loathing about tools goes on in a tool discussion forum. When I joined this site everyone was posting pics of their sets and complimenting one another and asking questions. These days it seems all newer members want to do is ***** about other people’s tools. You post up a large collection of quality USA made tools in a pro quality tool box here, prepare to be judged

Hate fueled by jealousy is my guess. I'm a younger non-pro hobbyist who buys off the truck because I like quality stuff regardless of what it is.

 

[gte718p]

Thank you. All of these threads are full of posts claiming that you can't get hired anywhere without a high end box because that is how shop owners / managers evaluate potential new hires.

I grew up in professional race shops. I've spent more then my fair share of time in NASCAR garages. I've never seen a mechanic judged by his tools, only the quality of work. You see a lot of 100k tool mega chest, you also see a lot of old guys rocking raised panel craftsman tools.

Hate fueled by jealousy is my guess. I'm a younger non-pro hobbyist who buys off the truck because I like quality stuff regardless of what it is.

I have a whole toolbox full of Snap On tools. But my life situation is different from your average junior tech. However, 95% of jobs could be done with a Husky tools and no debt. I don't think anyone in this thread is saying the tools are not top notch, just the price and the business model of the tool truck is ridiculous in the modern era.

 

[nycHorn]

Branding branding branding. You guys sound like a bunch of women justifying buying a $5000 purse. If it makes you happy then do it. Pro or non-pro you can’t tell me that paying 10-20x for a snappy tool is well worth it, no matter how you justify it. That being said I am a truck brand tool ***** also.


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[CR888]

Today the tool truck still exists and many mechanics are thankful that they are around. But for the average guy who is into tools the internet platform and s places like Amazon & EBay can put tools in your hands that were once almost unattainable. The quality and price has never been better than it is today. Its not perfect as brands often compete on price rather than design & quality but generally things are pretty good.

 

[HaroRider]

I know there are even Armstrong 88t but I dont mind the extra $ I spend for my Matco 88t because of the comfort grip and service. It is hands down my favorite ratchet.

 

[shanny19]

Today the tool truck still exists and many mechanics are thankful that they are around. But for the average guy who is into tools the internet platform and s places like Amazon & EBay can put tools in your hands that were once almost unattainable. The quality and price has never been better than it is today. Its not perfect as brands often compete on price rather than design & quality but generally things are pretty good.

Things ARE pretty good. As an old tool nut, it can be easy to lament the loss of brands like Bonney, New Britain, Indestro and the like. But then I look around my garage at the beautiful pieces of Koken, Hazet, Stahlwhille, and Knipex and the incredible value impact stuff from GP and Sunex that my Gramps had absolutely zero access to.

If new techs were required to spend a week on here learning what's available, and take an 8 hour credit awareness class before making the leap, the trucks would die.

 

[strelnik]

I had a bit of a chat with my Matco dealer about ADV and Sunnex being similar. And when my Eighty8 ratchet failed, it was surprisingly similar to how my Gearwrench did. Yes, the Matco is American where the GW is from Taiwan, but to me they are both imports, so that's really not something I lose sleep over. The last great value left in Matco for me is service - my dealer is extremely knowledgeable and decent, so I would pay the premium for that. This is why I spend 5x more at Snap-On than I do at Matco. I suppose if I had a mediocre dealer, I wouldn't even go near the truck.

Appreciate your honesty-- I will match it.

The MATCO guy is VERY service-focused. The Snap-o guy drinks his lunch. I spend 7x more on Matco. This guy is a Matco fanatic and even advised me at times not to buy their stuff, go figure.

I typically check with other merchants and auto repair shop owners before buying either, since Snap-o is mostly made in China or Spain.

I just troll Ebay for used tools.

 

[jsmeece]

since Snap-o is mostly made in China or Spain.

I would not have said that; you are going to get a lot of smack for that comment from the kool-aid drinkers.

 

[jcbarry]

Appreciate your honesty-- I will match it.



The MATCO guy is VERY service-focused. The Snap-o guy drinks his lunch. I spend 7x more on Matco. This guy is a Matco fanatic and even advised me at times not to buy their stuff, go figure.



I typically check with other merchants and auto repair shop owners before buying either, since Snap-o is mostly made in China or Spain.



I just troll Ebay for used tools.

I believe almost all my Snap On labeled tools(not Blue Point, Williams etc) are made in USA. Your welcome to come check if you’d like.

On another note, can’t we just all appreciate tools regardless of where they come from and price instead of bashing everyone else’s choice of tools and where they purchase from?

2nd note, and this is pointed at no one in particular. Many people talk about buying USA made tools then complain about their costs. Just seems like a rhetorical argument.



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[WittHay]

Never understood the argument that hiring a trucking company to deliver tools to your house is good but buying off a truck at work is bad.

Its good to buy tools from a middleman like Amazon, who then passes the buck to customer and UPS to somehow get the tools to their customers house or business. Giving money to Amazon and UPS good, giving money to a local businessman bad and outdated.

All internet purchasing does is give work to a bunch of underpaid truck drivers who have to drive as fast as possible with company trucks. Is it easy and simple to fix and repair these UPS/USPS/Fedex trucks? The answer is, who cares. The HD mechanics and the tool trucks who support them will take care of that.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Never understood the argument that hiring a trucking company to deliver tools to your house is good but buying off a truck at work is bad.

Its good to buy tools from a middleman like Amazon, who then passes the buck to customer and UPS to somehow get the tools to their customers house or business. Giving money to Amazon and UPS good, giving money to a local businessman bad and outdated.

Because one is delivering $200 apples, and the other one is delivering $5 oranges, when all you wanted was a piece of fruit.

I'm not disagreeing, just summing up a lot of the arguments here.

(That being said, I buy Snappy and all the other kick *** stuff. But it's internet and swap meet b/c I'm just a hobbyist.)

 

[Sco Deac]

https://www.sktools.com/content/sktools/en_US/mobile-distributor.htmlApparently SK isn’t ruling out the truck/franchise model.

Of course SK has others paths of distribution too.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I could order a 36 tooth count, 3/8" drive USA Williams ratchet from Amazon for $40.
I could buy an Asian made ratchet hanging in the parts store.
Those thoughts are rather depressing..

MATCO? Part of their tool prices include doorstep sales and warranty service; but that truck simply disappeared. ****

I have My favored brands that can be ordered thru the local parts stores, internet retailers, or a corporate website. A Snap-on Dealer also serves our area. So, here I am, up in the stix of Northern Minnesota, and lack a complaint as far as being able to purchase tools...

 

[strelnik]

I agree with the OP.

Granted, I'm not working in a shop and I'm just a guy in his garage.

But I walked on a Mac truck the other day and I saw plenty of Vim that was five times the price, a 3-piece plier set made in China for $145, and a lot of Facom stuff that was again three times the price for what I could buy it on the internet. If it was a little bit more I could understand the convenience but that much markup is insane to me.

Also, I've dealt with the warranty on stuff with corporate Mac, Matco, and Snap on. Snap-on is a breeze but both Mac and Matco treat you like a freaking Criminal with 20 questions and they are still hesitant and in some cases just say no. I warrantied slides on a Matco cart and they would only give me three instead of 5 because they said they are expensive. Kind of chickenshit for a $2,500 cart that was 6 years old.

FACOM is now owned by Stanley or vice-versa and I have found out that both of those are made often in Spain or France.

Snap-On vise grips are made in Spain, too

When I went to France, I saw an awful lot of FACOM stuff made there and they have factories in France. The government gives them breaks if they stay inside the country.

I know they have one big hand tool factory in Saumur and a factory that makes tool chests and tool boxes in Arbois, much like the Kennedy tool factory in Van Wert Ohio.

 

[Aberdale]

I can't believe I read all 6 pages of this. I am pathetic and have no life.

I think I'll go to the shop and use my mish mash of a tool set and try to put something back together.

 

[sberry]

I got no use for the tool truck. Tools are everywhere, some parts stores have got better about competing on pricing lately. I dropped a couple because of this. I cant believe how fast some auto parts are shipped, they are really good. I do shop local too. Especially on competitive items.
But if a guy comes to a stand still breaking his favorite ratchet especially if he has 12 others then whats the point? I agree, the auto parts delivers when needed and I can swing in to Walmarts to save a hundred bucks too, yes time is valuable but not always worth multiples of the rates one earns.
Doesn't make much sense to wait on the truck and cost 200 so I don't have to leave work for 30 minutes once or twice in a decade.
Secondly, I don't have anything where a common tool break, a socket or ratchet would shut down work. Would this stall a busy tech in a shop or would he have a bud to bail him out on occasion? Most likely would have a spare for that sort of thing anyway.
As someone noted earlier, we bought some cheap ****, had some given and eventually it worked its way in and don't even give it a thought anymore.

 

[Shark Pilot]

When I went to France, I saw an awful lot of FACOM stuff made there and they have factories in France.

I guess that would make sense given FACOM (Franco-Américaine de Construction d'Outillage Mécanique) was originally a French company!

 

[The Fall]

I don't break tools often. And if I do, I have backups (at work). It was often more convenient to just return a tool to a store after work (Sears) than wait till next Tuesday. I've purchased some tools off the truck -- mostly to let'em know that if the Snap-on ratchets I got through the student tech program broke, I'd expect them to fix'em. I paid more for ratchets that way (buying off the truck), but I gave it to someone who was coming into our shop, and the Snap-on and Matco guy did warranty a few small tools. I always paid for my purchases in full. I never ran a line of credit with them.

The tool truck business model is less compelling in the digital era. But it still serves a purpose. Its saving grace is the financing aspect, which I didn't want to get involved with.

The local Matco guy seems to have disappeared, which is unfortunate. He was great. I read on here that their flarenut wrenches are made in Taiwan now. What a joke. I'm sure they're okay (although far from excellent) but not at that price. Labor costs are far lower in Taiwan. The ones I inherited are made in USA. Reminiscent of Sears' bait and switch.

 

[sweet victory]

Even with the next day shipping, I can have it delivered to my door tomorrow for $40. How much better does it get from that?

When I lived in Seattle, I could get same day delivery, or 2 hour delivery with PrimeNow. So it CAN get better.

(Obviously this feature isn't offered everywhere)

 

[M6erfan]

Wait. All this chatter because no one has a spare ratchet lying around? Waiting 2 days is the end of the world?

I'm just a home hack and I have multiple ratchets in different configs. Not to mention breaker bars, reducers, 18v cordless...

 

[Hammer1963]

Most of Matco's ratchets are USA made. They do sell a lot of stuff made by Kabo but, not everything on a Matco truck is made in Taiwan.

The floating pawl ratchet design is shared across several brands from Gearwrench, Armstrong Maxx, Craftsman, Carlyle 90 tooth, and others too include MATCO.

Your Husky was probably made in China (not Taiwan) in a Sata plant where many Gearwrench items are made.

I don't think Matco is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Most people realize that they only make tool boxes, everything else is made for them by someone else.

I agree with your statement. Not everything is a conspiracy people. Dig a little deeper and you'll find the differences. Use them on a daily basis and the quality difference is quite evident.

 

[The Fall]

Wait. All this chatter because no one has a spare ratchet lying around? Waiting 2 days is the end of the world?

I have too many. I find rails of sockets I forgot I had at work -- backup CMan USA. I was always puzzled by this aspect as well. Having someone come around who'd have kits ready to rebuild a ratchet, replace a socket, order tools (and have them shipped to you later that day if next week as too long), specialty tools (albeit a lot of re-brands), etc. was and remains very convenient -- although it was much more so in a pre-digital era. The financing aspect is a major component of their business model -- for profit and mechanics' convenience. There are pros and cons and I appreciate the tool truck guys who come around. You accept it for what it is. Nevertheless, Mac and Matco charging big bucks for imported tools -- whatever. If it's something that's not made domestically, I get it (rotoheads come to mind). If it's a mix to add to truck profitability, I get it. If it's a massive switch to pricey imported tools with only some hardline remaining in the US -- hell, I'll just order from SK directly (which I do for the most part). That's just my take on it.

 

[M6erfan]

FACOM is now owned by Stanley or vice-versa and I have found out that both of those are made often in Spain or France.

Snap-On vise grips are made in Spain, too

When I went to France, I saw an awful lot of FACOM stuff made there and they have factories in France. The government gives them breaks if they stay inside the country.

I know they have one big hand tool factory in Saumur and a factory that makes tool chests and tool boxes in Arbois, much like the Kennedy tool factory in Van Wert Ohio.

A lot of Facom hand tools are made in Taiwan now though

 

[earthmover1980]

Tool trucks aren’t going anywhere. There’s a world out there outside of the diy harbor freight crowd

Most techs don’t bother buying from the internet. I hardly ever did.

I can't agree more! Tool trucks have their place. American Made tools also have their place. I find it interesting that tool truck brands like Mac and Matco are selling Chinese or Taiwanese tools at highhhhh prices. Like the Matco ratchet. Why not save some money and get the same tool in gearwrench brand? Same tool, warranty, quality, and manufacturer (potentially). Now with advance auto parts selling and warranting gearwrench, why not go this route if you are buy offshore tools anyway? Seems like the latest bandwagon is to convince tool buyers to buy Chinese made, since they are cheap and widely available, like Harbor freight, Tekton, Craftsman and others. Seems American Made tools are harder to obtain, and made out to be not necessary. I really like new and vintage American Made tools. I do have a few gearwrench tools (just fine), but my blue collar conscience tells me it's wrong. I just don't like where things are going with retail, truck brands, big mergers like Apex tools and Chinese manufacture. Some of you will agree, some won't, but this is my stance .

 

[The Fall]

I'm with you, earthmover. If I'm on a tool truck at their price points, I want to see a respectable amount of domestically made tools. I don't care if that truck's A/C is blowing ice chunks in summer or how many free Atomic Fireballs I get. I'm fine with a mix of high-quality imports, re-brands (a manufacturer can't make everything) in there. I'm not puritanical. But I'd rather support my fellow workers in the US. That's my take.

 

[CR888]

I'd have to break many sockets, ratchets, breaker bars, adapters, cordless impacts, pneumatic impacts, wrenches and impact sockets before a fastener made me call it quits on a job. Like 30+ tools would have to fail one after the other. I can't imagine how it could happen in a workshop where multiple people have way more tools than I do. Its a funny argument that one.lol

 

[snooter]

The issue is 30 yrs ago there was a discernable difference between american and chicom garbage..today the gap is virtually nonexistant..matco and snapon franchises will survive...

 

[Ji m]

FACOM is now owned by Stanley or vice-versa and I have found out that both of those are made often in Spain or France.

Snap-On vise grips are made in Spain, too

When I went to France, I saw an awful lot of FACOM stuff made there and they have factories in France. The government gives them breaks if they stay inside the country.

I know they have one big hand tool factory in Saumur and a factory that makes tool chests and tool boxes in Arbois, much like the Kennedy tool factory in Van Wert Ohio.

I don't know the current status of any French laws,

but in the past France has had many content laws that required products there to have a certain amount of French made parts in them.

^this is how Peugeot Transmissions ended up in Jeeps from the late 1980's.



On topic,
I like Matco stuff,
my favorite wrenches are their older RC style,
& most of my favorite ratchets are Matco as well.

It sounds like they're headed in the wrong direction with their product lines,
but it's been so long since I've actually seen a Matco truck, I guess it doesn't make much difference to me now.

 

[Fedwrench]

I'm amazed that this thread doesn't die

A couple more thoughts, MATCO continues to evolve. With the loss of Armstrong production facilities, they were able to find a new US made source for their ratchets but, I don't think they've found a domestic source for their wrenches. I also think their options for US made wrenches are slim to none. I mean they can't use Stanley with the MAC conflict of interest. I don't think SK would want to do it. Maybe wright but, they've been done that road before long ago.
I think MATCO has moved away from from being gearwrench clones and Apex (or whatever it's called today) for the most part and works hard to find to find quality tools. In the end MATCO may be the brand some people love to hate but, no one forces you to buy them.

 

[sk farmer]

IF one lives in a big urban environment, most don't so that does not hold water. The delivery in RURAL areas is 'shaky' and if you do get what you order it is destroyed.

are you kidding me? i live plenty rural and all of the big name players will deliver to my door, yes even in the winter. then you go on to say if you get your order it is destroyed? broken destroyed or missing items is not an issue here.

if you are having they type of issues you describe it is not because you are rural it is because you have bozoes on your delivery route. from what i have seen there a few bozoes driving tool trucks as well.