How much rust is too much rust?

[Mr onetwo]

This question is for MP&C and other experienced body guys.I have a chance to aquire my "unicorn" vehicle...a 1977 Dodge Ramcharger poptop.Being it is the northeast, the lower body,rockers,ect. are very rusty.The frame and more importantly the top are solid.Front clip is good and truck is mostly complete.Some panels are available from LMC.These trucks are so rare and I really only want a 77-79 with 7" round headlights and the turn signals in the grille.I have a good welder and my skills are improving with practice.I have all the time in the world...money is the limiting factor.The internet is littered with "projects" where people over estimated their skills and ability.Any and all opinions are welcomed!

 

[Showkey]

The litter is caused from a lack of time, money and desire.

 

[vpd66]

My 2 cents is if you really want this vehicle spend more time shopping for one in a climate that doesn't have a rust problem. What you see on the outside is just a start. Once you start taking it apart you will find more rust, more work, and more money! Plus in the end you will have a better vehicle if you can start with one with less rust. Just my opinion from a guy that lives in the rust belt and has done way too much rust repair.

 

[ratdoggy]

Blown engine over rust any day of the week...
Better off paying more than falling into a black hole of a project

 

[gte718p]

For most vehicles, rust is a turn off. If it is a unicorn and the likely hood of finding another is low, there is no such thing as to much rust. It is only metal and it can be repaired.

I watched a guy piece a rare mustang fast back back together. It looked like it had spent 10 years submerged in a swamp and then was set on fire. The year I watched him work on it, it started to look like a car again. He still had years to go, but it was worth it to him.

 

[Jazz1]

Rust repair can be very tedious and no doubt reason many projects never see the road. Going large and purchasing new parts does make the job go faster. I made all braces, pans for this repair.

 

[cowboy73]

If you are doing the work yourself, go for it. Steel is pretty cheap, it's the labor to install it that gets expensive quick. Don't be in a rush. It will look horrible before it starts looking good. It will take a lot of dedication and long hours to fix it up. I would suggest only tackling one small section at a time. That way you can see the progress to keep motivated.

 

[MP&C]

I would venture a guess that a truck you seek could be found in the southwest corner of the US, similar to the gems that Timewarp comes across. Any money spent up front for a better "project" is typically a better investment as it will be cheaper in the long run. I would search in CL ads in AZ, etc. to see if any exist there. If the local rusty truck has no sentimental value to you, then seek elsewhere first for a better start. The other concern is to find if replacement panels for the truck exist. If you need to source out replacement parts to be fabricated as replacements don't exist, then it will drive up your restoration costs. I would suggest to research all of these avenues before settling on a local truck that is less than ideal. At the end of the day, it may help you find sources for replacement/donor parts if you do end up working on the local one.

 

[MBfreak]

The rationale to start restoring a rust bucket is simple:
Perfect reason to buy more tools so you can fab up nice patch panels.

So, buy the car of your dreams and start working.
Pic is a Buick Super Special Coupe, or whatever remains of it. In a year it will be better than new. We are 4 guys working on it. One for the body, one for the chassis, brakes and suspension, one for paint and upholstery and I will do engine, driveline and all electrical .
It will be a sleeper, we plan 650bhp, new engine, gearbox and rear axle.


Ola

 

[amalik]

The rationale to start restoring a rust bucket is simple:
Perfect reason to buy more tools so you can fab up nice patch panels.

So, buy the car of your dreams and start working.
Pic is a Buick Super Special Coupe, or whatever remains of it. In a year it will be better than new. We are 4 guys working on it. One for the body, one for the chassis, brakes and suspension, one for paint and upholstery and I will do engine, driveline and all electrical .
It will be a sleeper, we plan 650bhp, new engine, gearbox and rear axle.


Ola

You're assuming everyone has the skills you mentioned.

Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk

 

[elvee]

I had a79 ramcharger as my first car in 1990 (the title called it a station wagon). Mine was cancers out in the quarters in front of the rear wheels, floor was Swiss cheese, quarters were rough. The problem is the rust creeps into the door jambs, and no one makes those. younalsomhave. Bunch of floor supports that trap grime and salt and take out the floors.

Also, 79 went to a quad headlight setup with a different hood from 78. 80 had the single headlights again but turn signals moved to the bottom.

 

[48548]

Me as a kid working on my 51 Chevy.... it took a lot to fix the rust, this picture doesn't do justice. In the end we found another body, but it was too late as we invested too much effort into this one. If money and time don't matter go for it. I wish we would have found another body in the beginning.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

This question is for MP&C and other experienced body guys.I have a chance to aquire my "unicorn" vehicle...a 1977 Dodge Ramcharger poptop.Being it is the northeast, the lower body,rockers,ect. are very rusty.The frame and more importantly the top are solid.Front clip is good and truck is mostly complete.Some panels are available from LMC.These trucks are so rare and I really only want a 77-79 with 7" round headlights and the turn signals in the grille.I have a good welder and my skills are improving with practice.I have all the time in the world...money is the limiting factor.The internet is littered with "projects" where people over estimated their skills and ability.Any and all opinions are welcomed!

Here ya go!

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5928853313.html

Current 1977-79 Dodge in this area

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/search/cto?auto_make_model=dodge&min_auto_year=1977&max_auto_year=1979




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[TimeWarpF100]

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/5898976025.html

Cut the roof on this one! Twin to your Avatar

For me I look for ZERO rust anywhere. Some times I will buy something with say a couple days max rust repair. Anymore than that unless its a bolt on part I go on to the next one.

If one is patient what one is looking for will come along. Nice straight body with zero rust is my top priority. I just looked at a '66 F100 today I was interested in guy said ZERO rust. It had rusty floors so I walked. Another showed up with zero rust for 800.00 but I was snoozing and missed it.

Just keep an eye out in western states and wait for what you are looking for. My saying is "Once a rust bucket, ALways a rust bucket"

 

[Buckgnarly]

You're assuming everyone has the skills you mentioned.

Sent from my LGMS428 using Tapatalk

This is how you acquire those skills.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Very very nice one in California 1200.00

http://dodgeramchargerforsale.com/1976-4wd-northridge-ca/

FaceBook RamChargers. They also have a web page

https://www.facebook.com/ramchargerforsale/

 

[Mr onetwo]

Very very nice one in California 1200.00

http://dodgeramchargerforsale.com/1976-4wd-northridge-ca/

FaceBook RamChargers. They also have a web page

https://www.facebook.com/ramchargerforsale/

The one in Cali is from a year and a half ago unfortunatley

 

[Mr onetwo]

Here ya go!

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/5928853313.html

Current 1977-79 Dodge in this area

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/search/cto?auto_make_model=dodge&min_auto_year=1977&max_auto_year=1979

Thanks Timewarp I love that truck and wish I had the means to get it back to Maine.Are you near Phoenix? Anyone coming east with a trailer?

 

[Showkey]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Think what everyone is saying ........you do have means.......if your willing.
Rent or buy a car hauler.........drive to he southwest.......buy the truck of your dreams. Drive home.

What there really saying the above process is cheaper, easier, faster, a lot less work and you end up with a better project in the end.

The other option.........you pay a car hauler $1000-$1500 to transport the dream truck.....after you take a long weekend "vacation" and fly to the southwest on cheap tickets to find the dream truck.

Weekend trip to Pomona swap meet in California!!!! JAN 15

http://www.pomonaswapmeet.com/

 

[Squashfest81]

Dude, grab one local, cheap, and take your time.
I too wanted one about 10 years ago to clean up. Found 76 Trailduster with rusted floors and rockers, but it was a big block and Dana 60's front and rear. Floor panels are cheap and relatively flat. Rockers I replaced with rectangular tube. I'll try to get a pic up.
Do it.

 

[Squashfest81]

Here we go.

Cut the rusty fenders to look a little M715 like. Rockers replaced with rectangular tubing. Then bedlined and sprayed.
She will be back on the road come spring.
Ignore the dude and terrible pic, as its a cell phone pic of a printed pic in the boys room.

 

[E.rodz]

as many others have said go find one with a solid body and go from there! this is coming from someone who has done many restorations and have every tool to make it bearable however it is so time consuming and the work just *****! it is dirty and the rust just migrates to every nook and crany of the garage. paint supplies are just nuts price wise too! you are so much farther ahead finding a rust free one.!

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Thanks Timewarp I love that truck and wish I had the means to get it back to Maine.Are you near Phoenix? Anyone coming east with a trailer?

Just buy it and leave it at my place until you can get it home. Its even got a 440
You can most likely buy it for 3k or less
I am in PHX. That unit is 30-40 minutes from me.

You DO have the means to get it. One way ticket hop in drive it home.

It would be cheaper to have it shipped than trying to fix a local rusty one.

If there comes a time for resale and you can show pics the one you had fixed had ZERO rust to start with or you had one that was a rust bucket which one do you think would sell first?

Once you start with a solid and rust free body you will not want to start with a rusty one again. . . a ABSOLUTE fraction of the time to restore if you find a good one to start with.

Growing up in the midwest I fixed enough rust buckets to know I never want to do that again!

Just think how much fun it would be to actually DRIVE it home!

Give it a going over at my place B4 you leave.

Another nice thing here is take title, walk into the local DMV and walk out with title in your hand 5 minutes later. No tax, get a 5 yr plate and all told it will be less than 100.00 out the door. Even if you had 5k into a unit from here by the time you got it home what would you have around your place for 5k driving no rust? Do the rest at your leisure.

Option 2 buy this one plus another tow one and sell other to pay for your trip . .

I kinda got a soft spot for that era Dodge trucks as bought this one new. (i prefer the quad lights)

 

[rsanter]

It's a relative question.
First remember that however much rust you see, you only see about 10% of it.

Rust gets everywhere, including in between the rivets and cross members of the frame. In the body seams....everywhere.

Almost anything is fixable. If you want to bad enough then buck up and get it. But ask yourself, can you find another one somewhere in better shape for more? And for that more money, will the rust repair cost more of less than that?

Bob

 

[EdT]

I've done a fair amount of rust repair and I'm siding with group saying find a good body w/o rust if it's at all possible. Rust repair is cubic money or cubic time or both if the panels have to be fabbed. Often, the after market panels are really bad and more work to make them fit than it would cost to make a new one. As mentioned above, rust repair is dirty, tedious work that, if done correctly, no one will know you did it, done poorly and everyone will know it's a bad job. If you choose to take it on, put your mind on "hold" and cut, grind, weld, sand, metal finish, prime, sand a lot more, and paint. Price out paint these days if you want a real shock.

 

[Squashfest81]

Mine was in a similar rust state. If the body mounts are solid, the other areas are workable. We must remember, this is a ramcharger. It will never be "valuable." You state that you have more time than money. Perfect candidate. The bodies just rot around the drivetrains.

 

[sberry]

as many others have said go find one with a solid body and go from there! this is coming from someone who has done many restorations and have every tool to make it bearable however it is so time consuming and the work just *****! it is dirty and the rust just migrates to every nook and crany of the garage. paint supplies are just nuts price wise too! you are so much farther ahead finding a rust free one.!

You could fly out of town on a week of vacation in a premium hotel and a tot tub to buy a nice one and it would be cheaper than fixing one of those. I agree with the E man here, I have done it, can do it ,,, and don't.

 

[sberry]

Just buy it and leave it at my place until you can get it home. Its even got a 440
You can most likely buy it for 3k or less
I am in PHX. That unit is 30-40 minutes from me.

You DO have the means to get it. One way ticket hop in drive it home.

It would be cheaper to have it shipped than trying to fix a local rusty one.

If there comes a time for resale and you can show pics the one you had fixed had ZERO rust to start with or you had one that was a rust bucket which one do you think would sell first?

Once you start with a solid and rust free body you will not want to start with a rusty one again. . . a ABSOLUTE fraction of the time to restore if you find a good one to start with.

Growing up in the midwest I fixed enough rust buckets to know I never want to do that again!

Just think how much fun it would be to actually DRIVE it home!

Give it a going over at my place B4 you leave.

Another nice thing here is take title, walk into the local DMV and walk out with title in your hand 5 minutes later. No tax, get a 5 yr plate and all told it will be less than 100.00 out the door. Even if you had 5k into a unit from here by the time you got it home what would you have around your place for 5k driving no rust? Do the rest at your leisure.

Option 2 buy this one plus another tow one and sell other to pay for your trip . .

I kinda got a soft spot for that era Dodge trucks as bought this one new. (i prefer the quad lights)

I was looking for a place to buy used Cadillacs, would love to have a set up I could fly someone out on occasion to buy one.

 

[Abeo]

I agree with buying one from AZ or another rust-free state. Bonus: chassis and underhood bolts will come undone with very little persuasion.

I did rust repairs on my project vehicle, and it was pretty solid for the age of car. But the stuff I found under the rust took me a bunch of time to fix. If I were to do it again, I'd find something from the southwest and spend my time enjoying the vehicle rather than bring it up to where I think is a good starting point.

 

[APEowner]

If you have lots of time and really want to learn new skills then by all means buy some thing that needs repair. There can be a lot of satisfaction in breathing new life into a rusted hulk and I personally think its great that stuff is being saved instead of parted out.

However, rust repair (when done correctly) is very time consuming and unless you fab all the panels it can get expensive as well. it's almost always cheaper and quicker to spend the extra for a rust free body.

 

[BassProCamaro97]

If you have lots of time and really want to learn new skills then by all means buy some thing that needs repair. There can be a lot of satisfaction in breathing new life into a rusted hulk and I personally think its great that stuff is being saved instead of parted out.

However, rust repair (when done correctly) is very time consuming and unless you fab all the panels it can get expensive as well. it's almost always cheaper and quicker to spend the extra for a rust free body.

I'm in this camp as well. I love to save old rusted metal. The cost time and aggravation doing so is never worth it. unless you like to build a project 100% your way......it's always best buying a clean and finished vehicle.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Keep your fingers crossed boys.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Keep your fingers crossed boys.

Getting a lot of rain here in PHX area the past few weeks. Opposite of normal only one day kinda clear the rest cloudy rainy. High around 55 deg today. Sun on weekends seems hard to come by . .

Seller does not respond very fast. Today would be good day to look. Will see if he replies.

 

[gasgas17]

My dad had a 2wd Jimmy around the same year, 76-78. It was a base truck with the standard hub caps on steel rims. Orange body with white roof. He used to take me with him on the road some times insurance adjusting. That would be a neat truck to have some day. We also had an old 66 Dodge W200 power wagon, manual on the floor. They just don't exist around here in the salt capital of north america. They literally just rusted away by the yearly 80's or sooner, along with most of those early ram chargers. The 80's product from the big 3 was no better. I guess the 66 W200 is my unicorn.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

Keep your fingers crossed boys.

Mark,
While you were napping I went out and bought you a "RAMCHARGER" !

I did find a serious issue though

Not so sure if there are any dings to fix much rather than body damage! A little tweak in rear bumper is all. Original paint except pass door and fender. No sign of repairs.

The body on this Ramcharger is very equal to my daughters Bronco, maybe even a touch better.

What a way to welcome in 2017?

Looks like it has a Dana 60 too.

Really tweaked my neck a couple days ago so could not crawl underneath like I wanted to. Can barely drive . .

Sneak photo's after upload.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

While Mark is waiting in anticipation & worried about the Purchase I can share a pic with everyone else!

A MAGIC SOAP BATH would do wonders for it. No question its been in PHX since new.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

 

[TimeWarpF100]

 

[Mr onetwo]

I have worn a hole in my floor from the pacing!!!! I guess this is the definitive answer to my initial question....find a standup guy who is willing to help you out and find a nearly perfect rust free example in Arizona.Randy, I am simply speechless! I can't convey how much I appreciate you taking the time and helping a total stranger out with this "unicorn" hunt. Truck is really nice. Now I just have to get it home.

 

[TimeWarpF100]

I was looking for a place to buy used Cadillacs, would love to have a set up I could fly someone out on occasion to buy one.

What year Caddy's?