How much would you pay...

[hallboyone]

Howdy y'all!
Hey, I am looking into setting up a decent casting setup but, before I drop too much money on it, I was wondering if I could off set the costs by selling on off castings. To see how practical this is what you would be willing to pay for a one off cast aluminum part? Assume that it is fairly small and that it can be either from a cad program or it can be a replica of a part. An example of the replica would be a broken handle on a tool box and an example of a cad part would be a motor mount for a custom cnc conversion.
Thanks,
hallboyone

 

[Kevin54]

Chances are that making a decent casting with little to no blowholes in it, a person looking for a part could have one machined for probably less, that would be stronger. Not saying you can't do it, but to justify a casting, it would have to be something a little more complex that what a mill or lathe could do.

And then you have to see what sort of places are around that does investment castings. Some of them will do one offs of a wax part. They take the wax part, keep dropping it into a ceramic slurry, melt the wax out, then cast your part. After the part it cast, they put it into a tumbler that will break the ceramic off, leaving you with a casting.

Now you have to figure in.......3D Printers. They are now becoming affordable for a lot of people, so they can start making their own complex parts. And places that do investment castings more than likely will start jumping on that bandwagon before too long.

If you are going to start doing one off castings, I truly believe you will have a very small market and you will probably have more into things than you would make. I'm not saying that you won't make ANY money, but if you are looking at making a considerable amount, you will need a website setup, do some serious advertisement, and show a quite a few different samples of what you can do.

You actually would probably make more money by sticking with CAD programming and doing that for people instead.

 

[zkling]

I used to do this on occasion, aluminum and bronze in sand or plaster, mostly reproduction of things that couldn't be sourced anymore (aka I made the customer provide the positive). You will need to find a nich market and fully understand the labor intensive process of casting to make it worth your while as a business.

For med quantity runs I doubt if you will be able to compete with a small commercial operation on a per piece cost.

How do you plan on producing a mold if someone provides a sketch only? Depending on your resources, this can and usually is the most difficult (read $) part.

 

[hallboyone]

Chances are that making a decent casting with little to no blowholes in it, a person looking for a part could have one machined for probably less, that would be stronger. Not saying you can't do it, but to justify a casting, it would have to be something a little more complex that what a mill or lathe could do.

And then you have to see what sort of places are around that does investment castings. Some of them will do one offs of a wax part. They take the wax part, keep dropping it into a ceramic slurry, melt the wax out, then cast your part. After the part it cast, they put it into a tumbler that will break the ceramic off, leaving you with a casting.

Now you have to figure in.......3D Printers. They are now becoming affordable for a lot of people, so they can start making their own complex parts. And places that do investment castings more than likely will start jumping on that bandwagon before too long.

If you are going to start doing one off castings, I truly believe you will have a very small market and you will probably have more into things than you would make. I'm not saying that you won't make ANY money, but if you are looking at making a considerable amount, you will need a website setup, do some serious advertisement, and show a quite a few different samples of what you can do.

You actually would probably make more money by sticking with CAD programming and doing that for people instead.

Thanks guys for the responses. I actually have a 3D printer that I would be using. Does that change anything?

 

[catalytic]

Chances are that making a decent casting with little to no blowholes in it, a person looking for a part could have one machined for probably less, that would be stronger. Not saying you can't do it, but to justify a casting, it would have to be something a little more complex that what a mill or lathe could do.......

I don't entirely agree. Many of us who restore vintage machine tools send parts to Cattail foundry from time to time to have replacements cast. The majority of parts are cast iron, but sometimes we send aluminum, too. They send back the raw castings, which typically then require some machining.

So there is a market for castings. The problem I foresee is that (1) your competition is established operations like Cattail that are already very inexpensive, and (2) I would personally never send you my original (often rare) parts to be recast (no offense!), nor would I send them to anyone who is not an established business with a long track record.

 

[catalytic]

Thanks guys for the responses. I actually have a 3D printer that I would be using. Does that change anything?

^^Yes! I didn't see this before I wrote my post. This is definitely something that Cattail and similar foundries cannot offer. How are you CAD skills?

If you can custom design parts or accept customers' CAD mold drawings, 3d-print the mold, and then cast in alu or bronze, then I think that's a pretty unique skill. Still a small/niche market, but that might be plenty for a small operation.

 

[plow]

You will have to account for shrinkage of the metal. If you print an object for casting, It will need to be slightly larger so the casting will be at the desired dimensions.

 

[hallboyone]

Would aluminum really shrink that much for a non machined piece a max of a 7" in length? Isn't it and 1/8 of an inch for every 1' or something like that?

 

[rsanter]

Would aluminum really shrink that much for a non machined piece a max of a 7" in length? Isn't it and 1/8 of an inch for every 1' or something like that?

Yes it will and you will have to allow,for a shrink allowance.
Now for some parts it may make little no no difference but with sone the shrink will make the part completely unusable.

If you are doing this thinking you are going to make a bunch of money with small parts, think again.
Can and will you make a little money...yes
But remember that the quality of your castings will make a difference. Can you control the alloy? Can you prevent defects, bubbles, and inclusions?
Your parts will likly be no structural at best.
Is there an application and need for that....yes
Is it a big need?....no

How about you look at the vintage car market and see what low production hard to find stuff you can make for those guys. That may be your best bet.

Do you have a 3d scanner? If you did you could scan a part. Scale it up in cad. Print it in your 3d printer. Pour a casting mold out of plaster. Burn out the form and then cast the part.

You can also 3d print a form that you could ram up sand molds from to make several. You may have to cast several parts to have one come out good enough for the customer

Bob

 

[hunter1151]

Not to mention, how would you alloy the material and or heat treat it to a condition where it could be machined?

 

[R.Anderson]

Would aluminum really shrink that much for a non machined piece a max of a 7" in length? Isn't it and 1/8 of an inch for every 1' or something like that?

Sounds like you need to hit the books or e-books theses days and study up on it. Read up on metal casting and at least basic metallurgy then figure it out from there. There are are metals that will look like aluminum but won't melt and or pour like aluminum and could lead to serous injury if you don't know what you are doing. Would name the metals but that would be doing your homework for ya

 

[hallboyone]

Sounds like you need to hit the books or e-books theses days and study up on it. Read up on metal casting and at least basic metallurgy then figure it out from there. There are are metals that will look like aluminum but won't melt and or pour like aluminum and could lead to serous injury if you don't know what you are doing. Would name the metals but that would be doing your homework for ya

Challenge accepted!

 

[shocwav3]

From your first post it sounded like your intention isn't really to make money but to offset your investment? I guess that depends on the timeline, your experience level and the quality of work you can produce.

From the sound of it you would be learning as you go? There is nothing wrong with that, but it may be some time before you can sell your skill. As far as automotive aftermarket is concerned I think there is money to be made for small hard to find castings.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

If you are using a 3D printer for the master, you'll have to account for time to clean up the printed master, smooth out the lines that come with such, body filler, sanding, painting, smoothing, repeat. Then you can consider using it as a master for the part.

If you don't care about the lines on the final part, then you can skip that, but I expect there will be a lot of time invested in any approach.

 

[Kevin54]

Would aluminum really shrink that much for a non machined piece a max of a 7" in length? Isn't it and 1/8 of an inch for every 1' or something like that?

On a casting, if I remember correctly, it's something like 1-2% shrinkage of the part. That is why you always see open tolerances on a casting except for the machined portions. We always asked for +/- .015 when we ordered castings, and at times, depending on the configuration of the shape, it was very hard to even hold that. A lot of casting places will ask for .030 tolerance to cover their self.

 

[R.Anderson]

Challenge excepted!

typo? excepted or accepted ?


Found this, right in line with what you want to do:

http://makezine.com/projects/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/metal-casting-with-your-3d-printer/

 

[hallboyone]

typo? excepted or accepted ?


Found this, right in line with what you want to do:

http://makezine.com/projects/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/metal-casting-with-your-3d-printer/

Ha! I edited it. Now you are the one who looks like an idiot!
The link is kinda what I had in mind but really only the last section (sand casting bronze). I have no desire to do the the lost method.

 

[R.Anderson]

Ha! I edited it. Now you are the one who looks like an idiot!
The link is kinda what I had in mind but really only the last section (sand casting bronze). I have no desire to do the the lost method.

Ah you want to make patterns for sand casting I was thinking investment casting (lost wax/foam). You would be able to do more advance castings with the investment method tho.

Have you ever done any metal casting yet?

 

[hallboyone]

No. I'm hoping to start playing with it this week. I'll keep you posted. Any tips?

 

[R.Anderson]

No. I'm hoping to start playing with it this week. I'll keep you posted. Any tips?

Safety, face shield and leather gear.

Started a thread on casting aluminum, I have not done any castings since the name plates but have a few things I would like to make soon.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227962

Use clean aluminum for your source, and make sure its aluminum and not zinc or magnesium or high % magnesium alloy.

What ya got for your foundry setup any pics of it? Throw some pics of your 3d printer too

 

[zkling]

No. I'm hoping to start playing with it this week. I'll keep you posted. Any tips?

What foundry setup are you using? Pour capacity? Tips: Don't pour over concrete, don't allow water into the cruicble, use clean quality stock, if you are using a propane fired furnace, use caution to prevent flamable gas buildup. Skim the dross, make sure you are up to temp to pour and not too cold.

 

[tstaude]

Are you planning on investment or sand casting?
The capital expense will be ridiculous, so I hope you are independently wealthy
You may be able to work with a local investment casting shop to make your first few parts and see if you really want go in head first.

What kind of 3D printer do you have? Does the material burn easily?

I have been in the casting biz for about ten years now, mainly stainless, inconnel, monel, cobalt and other exotic alloys. I order Stereolithography one time use patterns on a regular basis. My one-off castings sell for between $50-500 per pound depending on geometry and NDT requirements.

Let me know if you need help with shrink rates and/or gating.

 

[hallboyone]

Thanks zkling and tstaude for the tips!
I don't like the sound of investment casting. I don't see how you could keep all of the details with that technique. Is that a correct assumption?
Would the start up be as expensive for less exotic and high temp metals? The other thing is that my size of casting is limited by the size of the printer (about 8x8x8 in) so it won't be like it'll be anything huge.

 

[tstaude]

I noticed you are looking at starting with aluminum, that would be an excellent starting point. The melting point is pretty low making it much easier to handle from a safety standpoint
Which molding process were you looking at? (I.E. sand, investment, lost foam, petro bond sand, etc.)
Detail is where investment casting has the advantage. You can cast script as small as 1/8" without a problem. If you were to print a model, all of your print lines will show up in the castings. Also, investment is the only one that really lends itself to utilizing 3D printed patterns.

 

[kazlx]

Great site to read:

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com