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How old are sealed bearing before you replace them ?

pcmeiners

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Just bought a Powermatic 87 bandsaw circa 1972. Pulled 5 different sealed bearings and all were a few hours before seizing; luckily one of the shafts is only slightly scored. So I am replacing every bearing in the drive train, leaving all bearing not related to moving the saw blade, so far I have ordered 14 bearings, not cheap.
At what age do you guys count on replacing sealed bearings during restorations?
 
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jblnut

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If it's a full off restoration that I intend to use is do them all. It's a piece of mind deal for me. If it's something that will see occasional use and isn't a mission critical thing if it fails I'll run them a lot longer.
 
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pcmeiners

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On this old bandsaw they have bearings on every thing, if it turns it has a bearing, like adjustment wheels, those I am not replacing, too much work for items which are infrequently used.. besides this rebuild is for practical use, not a machine polishing level. As to peace of mind, every bearing which turns in blade path, including the transmission bearings are being replaced. At this point it will be $300 in bearings.
 
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Nutria

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At what age do you guys count on replacing sealed bearings during restorations?
As to peace of mind, every bearing which turns in blade path, including the transmission bearings are being replaced.
It's not an age thing for me, as age is often unknown. I go with your approach in the lower quote. Relatively cheap insurance. I will keep an old bearing if a) it's very difficult to find, and b) not scratchy or catchy, and c) able to be repacked by removing shields/seals. If I'm tearing a machine down for overhaul, seems sensible to go ahead and swap in new bearings.
 

Innovate1

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As others have said it's not an age thing. More based on how much load and run time they have and if any crud got into them. Sounds like you have a good plan of replacing those that are the drive and blade bearings. If the hand wheels turn smoothly they don't get much use or speed so will probably last a very long time. If the bearings turn smoothly they should have some life left in them. But if they are on a heavy shaft or pulley some of the roughness will be masked by weight of the other rotating items (inertia actually). Best to test the smoothness with just the bearing. Once they get a little rough the decay speeds up. If this is for home use and not a shop where it will get lots of hours I might just take the bearings out and turn them slowly by hand. If I couldn't feel any roughness I would put them back in. Once you feel a few that are starting to fail you will have a better idea how bad is bad. The other thing is there are real differences between manufacturers so you will have to decide how good you want them - just running to you local auto parts store is a **** shoot on quality. I recently replaced some bearings on a machine and looked for NSK or some other quality bearing. The blade bearings aren't probably as sensitive as the higher speed motor bearings.
 

rancherbill

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Just looked up and that's a really nice machine. On any machine that's 50 years old replacing them all is not unexpected. I got a machine from a commercial environment and it was thrashed. I replaced everything and it's like new. It is amazing the difference it made in the machine.

I got my bearings from a retailer to farm / industrial / home customers and they work great. Using a cross-reference, I paid 1/2 to a 1/3 of the original mfr price.
 

four.cycle

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Nutria said:
"...it's not an age thing..."

^ True.

In THEORY, a ball bearing should run forever. If you look at Leonardo da Vinci's drawings of a ball-bearing assembly, you can see what he was thinking: all surfaces experience the same amount of wear (in theory.)
In the real world, that's actually not the case, but some bearings will run a long, long, long time.
When's the last time you replaced a rear axle bearing on a 3/4 ton truck?
We replaced the rear axle bearing on the passenger side on my Ranger at about 40K. The driver's side bearing is still the original - now at 347K.
Go figure.
Some bearings will run forever, but if you've got the thing all disassembled and bearings are only a few bucks a pop, put new ones in.
 

Uncle murph

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As others have said it's not an age thing. More based on how much load and run time they have and if any crud got into them. Sounds like you have a good plan of replacing those that are the drive and blade bearings. If the hand wheels turn smoothly they don't get much use or speed so will probably last a very long time. If the bearings turn smoothly they should have some life left in them. But if they are on a heavy shaft or pulley some of the roughness will be masked by weight of the other rotating items (inertia actually). Best to test the smoothness with just the bearing. Once they get a little rough the decay speeds up. If this is for home use and not a shop where it will get lots of hours I might just take the bearings out and turn them slowly by hand. If I couldn't feel any roughness I would put them back in. Once you feel a few that are starting to fail you will have a better idea how bad is bad. The other thing is there are real differences between manufacturers so you will have to decide how good you want them - just running to you local auto parts store is a **** shoot on quality. I recently replaced some bearings on a machine and looked for NSK or some other quality bearing. The blade bearings aren't probably as sensitive as the higher speed motor bearings.
I have a New Idea rollerbar hay rake manufactured about 1955 with sealed bearings on the rollerbars,I have never replaced any of them and they show no signs of wear. The rake has been in the family since new and yes that’s almost 70 year old grease.
 

Whitworth

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If restoring an old tool I will replace all bearings that are accessible and are currently available, regardless of how they "feel."
I've done many various machine restorations and seen some beautiful grooves worn into shafts by seized bearings.
 

mikedodge

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I only replace them when they need it. Far too many new bearings and other parts fail prematurely or their sizes are slightly or something else that cause problems.
 

PoorUB

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I have a Powermatic 1200 drill press from the mid 70's. I am running as is. It doesn't make any weird noises so I am assuming it is good.
 

walta

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At 20 years or so the factory installed grease in the sealed bearings has dried out and looks like waxy rocks and no longer lubricates anything.

Generally bearing comparatively inexpensive compared to the risk of failure. If you wait for the bearing to fail it is likely the seize and spin on the shaft when it does the hard bearing rase will quickly grind away at the softer shaft. Replacement bearings will not fit property on the now undersized shaft the proper fix expensive spray welding and machining back to the correct diameter likely hundreds of dollars as a paying job in a machine shop.

Walta
 

MBfreak

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SKF has tables showing expected lifetime. Most often above my expected lifetime nowadays
If a sealed bearing conks out, it is probable that the seal has been damaged

Ola
 

Whitworth

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I have a Powermatic 1200 drill press from the mid 70's. I am running as is. It doesn't make any weird noises so I am assuming it is good.
The mass of the components and the horse power in a large drill press like that can easily overpower and mask the sound of any ball bearing that is starting to go bad. You probably would never hear any weird noises until you had a totally seized bearing grinding against a shaft.
 
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Bert_

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I honestly can't think of a time I've had a ball bearing seize. Replaced plenty that were worn. They give plenty of warning if you listen for a rumble.
 

twagler

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I only replace them when they need it. Far too many new bearings and other parts fail prematurely or their sizes are slightly or something else that cause problems.
+1 on avoiding unnecessary replacement of bearings, which almost seems to be an obsession with restorers. This topic has been hotly argued, especially on vintage machinery type forums. Here's a good argument made by someone that matches my thoughts on this topic:

This site is a great resource but like all web boards, can be a bit of an echo chamber. We really like to change bearings here! That's fine if they feel sketchy, make noise or heat... But too often they are changed to make the owner feel good. So what? More machines get screwed up, parts broken, and inferior bearing re-installed rather than just letting the machine run as-is. I know, I've owned too many 'rebuilt' machines in the past. My father-in-law used to manage the machine repair dept at Caterpillar Tractor Co. He used to rail on about more damage and downtime caused by over fixing and over lubricating (especially motors) than from wear out. "Plug the grease zerks" he used to say.
Sorry to rain on the fun but this is a sore spot with me. Bearings don't need replacing every 25 years nor do they wipe out the machine if they start to go bad.... They'll gently let you know. Spend more time using your machine and less time "fixing".... Please.
 
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pcmeiners

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"if you wait for the bearing to fail it is likely the seize and spin on the shaft when it does the hard bearing race will quickly grind away at the softer shaft. "

Of the bearing I have removed ALL of them required slight effort to slowly move the inner race, a main shaft was slightly score from the bearing inner race turning on the shaft. All main parts on this monster are not retail replaceable and would require a machine shop replication...I can not afford machine shop cloning.

" Bearings don't need replacing every 25 years nor do they wipe out the machine if they start to go bad..."

Guess you have not had a machine/motor/shaft destroyed due to bad bearings....lucky you

"it is probable that the seal has been damaged"

On this bandsaw, the bearing seal are OK, but EVERY bearing was in bad condition as to the lubrication.

Aside from the bearing, I have yet to find a bolt or hex screw which was tight on this bandsaw,most were actually slightly loose, bet it came from the factory like this, very strange. :unsure:
 

KenC

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Wouldn't want to fly on an airline that practiced that philosophy.
Actually the timed replacement of a lot of components on aircraft has been slowly replaced with 'condition monitored maintenance' starting way back in the 60s. When I first went to work for an airline our engines (early jets) where replaced with overhauled units at less than 1000 hours. Currently there is no specified TBO. Engine parameters, vibration, temp, pressure sensors at several locations are recorded and transmitted at specific times during flight(takeoff, climb, cruise, descent etc) as well as continuous monitoring. Those data points are used to identify potential issues and maintenance is planned.
 

jar944

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+1 on avoiding unnecessary replacement of bearings, which almost seems to be an obsession with restorers. This topic has been hotly argued, especially on vintage machinery type forums. Here's a good argument made by someone that matches my thoughts on this topic:

This site is a great resource but like all web boards, can be a bit of an echo chamber. We really like to change bearings here! That's fine if they feel sketchy, make noise or heat... But too often they are changed to make the owner feel good. So what? More machines get screwed up, parts broken, and inferior bearing re-installed rather than just letting the machine run as-is. I know, I've owned too many 'rebuilt' machines in the past. My father-in-law used to manage the machine repair dept at Caterpillar Tractor Co. He used to rail on about more damage and downtime caused by over fixing and over lubricating (especially motors) than from wear out. "Plug the grease zerks" he used to say.
Sorry to rain on the fun but this is a sore spot with me. Bearings don't need replacing every 25 years nor do they wipe out the machine if they start to go bad.... They'll gently let you know. Spend more time using your machine and less time "fixing".... Please.
I'm running multiple 80 year old machines with original bearings.
 
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pcmeiners

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For anyone else who runs into a Powermatic 87 bandsaw......

Powermatic 87 bearings. Beware there are a couple different transmissions for this model, not all bearings are the same among the variant models, the manual for ” maintenance instructions and parts list” ( from last page ,May 1979) shows the bearing for my model 87;(should show on page 34, transmission assy 87 lbs 0340058 on lower right of page ). There were no numbers to denote the correct manuals ( !*&#@), go figure

Transmission and saw wheel bearing…………

TORRINGTON/KOYO NEEDLE BEARING J1212 or 1612OH Torrington New Needle Bearing (quantity 1)

SKF 6207-2RSNR, SEALED BEARING W SNAP RING ( 4 ) or equal

6205-2NSENR Nachi Bearing 25x52x15 Sealed C3 Snap Ring ( 2 ) or equal

6206-2RS SKF Brand rubber seal 6206-rs ball bearings 6206 rs ( 4 ) or equal

Timken 9111pp Bearing ( 1 ) or equal



Lenze AC Invertor Vari Speed Drive 2Hp 240V ESV152N02YXC, for 2hp, 3 phase motor

Zambus CarryMaster AC-1300F Swivel Leveling Caster Wheels Feet ( 4) , possibly Ebay has similar for a lot less, have a few, likely from the same Chinese manufacturer. Search Retractable Leveling Machine Casters Heavy Duty

Bearings are easy enough to replace, a little tough if your bearing press decides to blow a seal when you need it, like mine; resorted to plastic hammer to get the bearings installed, needle bearing needed a blind bearing puller.
My Powermatic was from an auction, was not used a lot, almost all the bearings needed replacement, only 2 still had functional life. A couple bearing were bad enough to slightly score the shafts they were on, though no major damage. Damn these machines were mad to last hundreds of years. If the Pharaoh's had these around, their tombs would have had one of these for the after life's man cave.

it's called "I.R.O.N." - "inspect and replace only as necessary"

I hear it is pretty tough replacing main turbine shafts bearings at 34000 ft.
 
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Skyman

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IMHO, bearing life depends on:

1. Quality of materials and manufacture.
2. Suitability of application (proper machine design).
3. Quality of lubrication.
4. History of excessive loading, excessive heat, or other forms of what could be characterized as harsh duty or actual abuse.

In many cases, failure results from lubrication deficiency. Sealed bearings present a challenge in that their lube can't be inspected or renewed, in most cases, without ruining the seal. Grease tends to dry up and congeal. Wet lube, such as gear oil, can keep bearings going nearly indefinitely, in many cases.

Steve
 

p00p

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2 years if used in a salty dirty environment, but usually can go longer if kept up on. try to not ride in the salt season to prevent the exposure.
 

yhprum

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We’re they on the verge of failing because the grease dried out?
They can be repacked. Search YouTube grease sealed bearing.
 
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pcmeiners

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"We’re they on the verge of failing because the grease dried out?
They can be repacked. Search YouTube grease sealed bearing."

I do not have the time to repack dried out old bearings, a few of which scored the shaft they are on; which means the rest of the bearing are likely near the same condition. Why would I take the chance on a machine I never want to get into again unless absolutely necessary ? The only time In would repack would be if a bearing becomes un-replaceable.

As to repacking.... Any bearing needs to thoroughly clean of the previously used grease unless the new grease is compatible with the old, which is rare with decades old bearings. How long would it take to thoroughly clean, dry and repack ? Not worth it.
 
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bubinga

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Just bought a Powermatic 87 bandsaw circa 1972. Pulled 5 different sealed bearings and all were a few hours before seizing; luckily one of the shafts is only slightly scored. So I am replacing every bearing in the drive train, leaving all bearing not related to moving the saw blade, so far I have ordered 14 bearings, not cheap.
At what age do you guys count on replacing sealed bearings during restorations?
That must be a wood/metal bandsaw then, right?

EDIT (including the transmission bearings are being replaced.)
Must be wood/metal.
 

bubinga

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Just bought a Powermatic 87 bandsaw circa 1972. Pulled 5 different sealed bearings and all were a few hours before seizing; luckily one of the shafts is only slightly scored. So I am replacing every bearing in the drive train, leaving all bearing not related to moving the saw blade, so far I have ordered 14 bearings, not cheap.
At what age do you guys count on replacing sealed bearings during restorations?
Are you gonna paint and polish, or just mechanical restore?
Do some before and after pictures if paint/polish.
 
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pcmeiners

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"Are you gonna paint and polish, or just mechanical restore?
Do some before and after pictures if paint/polish."

Technically they have 2 models of the 87, one for wood, one metal.,.I have the one setup for metal due to the variable speed; it was used infrequently in a wood shop just on wood.

Paint and polish, yes after I finish roughly 100 projects... stick around I should get to it by 10:31 am 9/3/2452 .:)

Actually I did not consider I might needed new bearing when I bid on it, I just had to have it. Generally I am not a paint/polish guy, though I have done it on a couple machines and an old Coke machine.
 
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