How old is too old?

[matt151617]

Purchased a new house recently. It has 100 amp service (all gas appliances, central air is the only big current draw). The panel is a 10-space/20-circuit Cutler-Hammer with an install inspection sticker of 1951. There is a newer subpanel installed next to the panel for expansion purposes.

Since I know the meter box, weatherhead, service entrance, and panel are all original, is it time to replace any of this? I'd like to put a 20-space panel in, but it would make things massively easier to add it as a subpanel to the old Cutler-Hammer. New Jersey towns are notorious for taking forever to issue permits, they're super expensive, and they take a very long time to actually do the inspection. It is a very real possibility of not having power for at least a week after the meter is pulled by the power company, waiting for the town to do the inspection.

 

[sberry]

My record is about 10 minutes for a change over. Our state is pretty good.

 

[Norcal]

Post a photo of the panel, C-H panels of that era are either Multibreaker or a XO and either type are well past their prime. The current CH style did not come out until the late 1950’s.

 

[sberry]

As for age, would ideally want to check the connections in the meter base where I couldnt see them. Never know, have seen some great, seen some badly corroded, wonder they worked. I will agree that I would want modern compatible breakers.

 

[mm08822]

For the towns I deal with:

Simple residential modification permits can take up to 3 weeks typically where zoning eats up one week. For a service upgrade there is no zoning application. 2 weeks should be plenty if you have submitted all forms and required details – e.g. – eisting vs. proposed sketches.

$100 for 200A service inspection.

Inspections are supposed to take place within 3 business days assuming that office has a full-time inspector.

For up to 200A residential services, PSEG and JCPL allow for disconnect and reconnect on an upgrade only. Your sparky can cut out in the am and reconnect back in the pm without inspection. Who is your utility provider?

Then call for inspection on a following day. Inspection occurs once called in after you and inspector agree on a common time. Service is hot for inspection.

I have had to rattle the cage a few times also.

What town are you dealing with?

 

[Jim greengo]

Post a picture of meter socket/mast and how panel is fed.

 

[bczygan]

68.....

 

[nadogail]

I am 79, when I am too old I will announce it to the group.

 

[yeldogt]

It's not clear -- do you want to do this work? or are you having it done?

Replacing any part will for all practical purposes escalate immediately to the whole service being replaced -- upgraded. You will want a single new panel w/ new service line and meter pan.

Have never had any extended time to get a permit in NJ for this kind of work -- in some situations you have to get approval from the electric company regarding the meter location .. some of the utilities have a specific pan that must be sourced from them. The power companies have there act together -- the crews have it all scheduled. No delay.

 

[matt151617]

Town is Somerville, provider is PSEG. I've had first hand experience with the town already on an oil tank removal. Permit took forever to get issued, and I was told by many from the area not to press the town to speed things up- they would deliberately delay it longer.

I'll get some pictures up soon. I want to do the work myself. I've done a panel in my previous house and it had a lot more circuits.

 

[mm08822]

Town is Somerville, provider is PSEG. I've had first hand experience with the town already on an oil tank removal. Permit took forever to get issued, and I was told by many from the area not to press the town to speed things up- they would deliberately delay it longer.

I'll get some pictures up soon. I want to do the work myself. I've done a panel in my previous house and it had a lot more circuits.

Oil tank is a very different animal. I'm sure they are interfacing with the EPA.

As for a free meter pan from PSEG, it saves a few bucks but sometimes is more of a PIA to get. For you, I think the Weston Canal Rd location is still the p/u location. Then there are the p/u hours and your availabilty.

Usually a meter survey isn't needed b/c current location is generally good/best but there are exceptions. Any doubt, call and request it. If you want to change the meter location then you need to call.

As long as you can disconnect/reconnect safely by yourself, power outage duration is not a problem for concern.

I dont understand the time pressure for the permit. Figure out what you plan to do, apply for permit, call for survey, p/u pan/mtls, do it. What's the issue whether 1 week or 3 weeks?

Probably a much cleaner job to just go with one panel.

 

[matt151617]

So this sounds different than the last time I did a panel in NY. The POCO pulled the meter at a specified time, and would not reconnect until they had a signed inspection report. I had to hire a 3rd party inspector; the town inspection was different. Trying to coordinate the timing of the POCO and the inspector made things rushed and stressful.

I'm unfamiliar with doing a full pan replacement. Does the POCO disconnect the overhead service completely from the transformer, or simply undo the connections at the weatherhead?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I got a quite to replace the over head feeder, meter base, feed to the FUSE box and fuse box a couple of years ago. Even though the cost of materials at HD were well under $500 the quote was for $1300 plus $500 for a load center in the garage (pre-dug trench).

Not going to happen at those prices. I know I could do everything from the existing meter base in, but I am not sure how long it would take. No experienced helping hands around.

 

[yeldogt]

Go talk to the inspector .. ask him the questions.

The power company pulls the meter and disconnects the drop -- if its an old wire or you are upgrading they typically replace the drop to the pole. You run the the new service cable. I have never had an issue with the inspector coming back if required ... people don't take very well to not having power over night because of an inspector.

PSE&G at one time made you get the pan from them because of the meter they use and they did not want any surprises when they came out with the new meter. They were always fine to work with and they did the drop connection to the new service cable.

You have to get a permit anyway -- just go and ask. You are allowed to do this to your own house .. so speak to the inspector ... not the clerk.

There is no state with more difficult rules and permitting when it comes to buried oil tanks -- none. It's a mine field .. a simple service is not the same.

 

[CoogarXR]

I'm glad I live in the Ohio boonies. Every time I have wanted to do a breaker box replacement, I just call up the power company and tell them I need a meter resealed for a breaker box swap, and they say OK.

Then I just cut the lock, yank the meter, swap the breaker box, then put the meter back. When the guy comes to read the meter, he puts a new seal/lock on it, and I'm done.

No charges, permits or anything. As long as you call them first. If you cut the seal without calling them first, you can get into some trouble though.

I realize that this post has little to do with the OP, I just wanted to let future readers know that it's not always a bureaucratic pain in the *** in other municipalities.

 

[matt151617]

Adding some pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/D1T6OCu
https://imgur.com/942Kkwx
https://imgur.com/tklyIKN

The box install sticker is actually 1961; I'm not sure why. The house was built in 1951.

 

[Norcal]

Adding some pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/D1T6OCu
https://imgur.com/942Kkwx
https://imgur.com/tklyIKN

The box install sticker is actually 1961; I'm not sure why. The house was built in 1951.

That panel has twin breakers that have no business in there, the panel is not made to accept them, and C-H, now Eaton, only started producing twin breakers about 25 or 30 years ago, they still only fit limited panels, those old C-H panels were built like a brick sh*t house, but looks to be inadequate for current needs.


This is a photo of a panel interior that will accept twins in the lower section, notice the nibs sticking out further on the lower part, they will fit other parts but do not clip to the panel rail properly.

 

[brewchief]

That panel has twin breakers that have no business in there, the panel is not made to accept them, and C-H, now Eaton, only started producing twin breakers about 25 or 30 years ago, they still only fit limited panels, those old C-H panels were built like a brick sh*t house, but looks to be inadequate for current needs.

Looking at the label I can see two lines to label each breaker space, normally when I see this it's because it's allowed two circuits, did C-H do things differently back then? I know that those panels are one of your favorites(and for good reason) so I'm not doubting you just curious.

 

[Norcal]

Those panels were never listed or tested to use twins, they did not exist until decades later.