How should I fix this double tapped meter

[bdog]

I have two shops about 15’ apart and they are both on the same meter which is just for the shops. One is for storage and just has two light fixtures, two outlets, and my air compressor. It also has a water well connected to it. The shop has 4ga wire feeding it and the length is less than ten feet to the meter.

The main shop has all my goodies in it and I work in it. Three welders, plasma cutter, lift, refrigerator, twenty ultra bright led high bay lights, an enclosed trailer with three 15k btu roof tops that sometimes are on, and next week I am adding a 5 ton AC / heat unit (gas heat). It is currently fed with 1 ga wire (125 amp main panel) and is approx 20’ of wire. I think it will be overloaded with the addition of the AC unit.

The meter just has the wires coming from each shop paired together and stuffed into the single lugs. It has been like this over ten years and I know it is wrong.


Today I bought a 200 amp panel and am going to install it in the main shop and run 3/0 wire from the meter to it.

My question is what is the best way to connect the panel in the storage shop? Is there a meter base or legit way to double tap a meter or should it just be ran as a sub panel off the main one? If sub panel is there a way to splice the 1 & 4 ga wires together in the meter box so I can just use the existing wires and only need to buy the new 3/0?

 

[Bert_]

If the meter is on the building then feeding everything out of that panel makes sense. If the meter is on a pole or some central structure the a meter with a main and a terminal box to split off to the buildings is best.

You need to do a load calc in the shop. How many things can you use at once? A 5 ton AC pulls about 25 amps.

 

[bdog]

The meter is on a pole closer to the “storage” shop but not attached to it. As to the loads I have four employees working with me. Not at all uncommon for one to be welding, one grinding, one using plasma cutter, and one using chop saw. Also the enclosed trailer with the three rooftop AC’s pulls a lot. It has chargers inside it for 128 batteries. It will easily trip a 40 amp breaker. Seems to run on a 50 ok. The trailer could be charging batteries with the AC on to keep them cool, the crew welding/cuttting/grinding, and the AC to keep us cool.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sounds like you need a new service.

If you go with a combination meter main, then you will need 4-wire and the neutrals in the panel will need to be isolated.

 

[bdog]

Four wire service wouldn’t be a problem. Getting another meter would be. Monthly minimums and all.

I guess what I am saying is I am not sure how you are supposed to physically connect the multiple wires.

I looked up a terminal box and found this. I could put this on the meter but it still just has one set of lugs on the output side. How would I go from this to the two shops? In other words how would I hook up the four hot wires and two neutrals?

 

[Dagny]

get a socket that has changeable lugs

 

[Bert_]

This is a terminal box. Works well if you need to connect multiple large feeders.

If you only need a lot of power in one building then a meter/main with feed through lugs and a few breaker spaces would be a good option. It would allow a 200a feed to the shop. And a small breaker could be installed to feed the other building.

 

[bdog]

I got it figured out. Just went ahead and bought 3/0 wire for new main panel and bought 2 ga as well. I ran the 3/0 from the meter to the main panel and then ran a ground and the 2ga from a 100 amp fuse in the main panel through the same conduit to the meter, and then through the conduit over to the storage shop. No splices and storage shop panel is now just a sub panel off the main panel.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you go with a combination meter main, then you will need 4-wire and the neutrals in the panel will need to be isolated.

Yep !

 

[Aceman]

I got it figured out. Just went ahead and bought 3/0 wire for new main panel and bought 2 ga as well. I ran the 3/0 from the meter to the main panel and then ran a ground and the 2ga from a 100 amp fuse in the main panel through the same conduit to the meter, and then through the conduit over to the storage shop. No splices and storage shop panel is now just a sub panel off the main panel.

You can't mix service conductors with other wiring in the same conduit.

NEC 230.7

 

[bdog]

You can't mix service conductors with other wiring in the same conduit.

NEC 230.7

Oops.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You can get a dual lug meter pan- typically 320/400a meter pans have those

 

[bdog]

It’s already done.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not to code

 

[bdog]

Yes I know. Lots here not code and I don’t care as long as I feel it is safe. I read the code you posted and the reason for it is if the wires shorted to each other in the conduit the non service wires could see more current than designed for. In my case if I bought the meter with dual lugs these wires would be connected directly to it anyway so I don’t see the risk. Besides I am more likely to get struck by lightning than these wires shorting to each other in the conduit. Heck lots of wires touch each other in the panel. Seems like an equal or greater risk there as it is metal and the wires get moved around when working on it. The conduit is PVC and never moves.

Don’t get me wrong I try to do things by code and had I not already completed this I would have done it differently had I known but I am not redoing it. I think it is a lot better now than it was for the past ten years with the double tapped meter. I also moved my old “main shop” panel to the storage shop. The panel in there was connected directly to the meter with no main disconnect and most the wires were just shoved through the knockouts with no securement. That part is done right now.

 

[ard]

It’s already done.

Crazy....

why do people even bother posting questions?

 

[bdog]

Crazy....

why do people even bother posting questions?

What’s crazy? It was not already done when I posted the thread. I obviously wasn’t sure the best way to fix it so I was looking for advice. Being without power isn’t something that you want to drag out for multiple days or weeks so I fixed it quickly. No one mentioned it wasn’t allowable until it was already done.

 

[rjacobs]

So your original service was "wrong" by your own admission in your OP.

You ask questions on how to do it correctly..

You completely disregard those suggestions and then state "its already done" and refuse to change it to be code compliant... so its still "wrong"...

Then want to argue about it..

I have no input on the electrical side of it, but I gotta agree with ARD and simply LOL...

 

[dutchgray]

Its stuff like this is why you have to qualified to do electrical work in the UK, homeowners are not allowed to mess with their own wiring.
The code is not just to protect the homeowner and the buildings, its also to protect the professional electrician who comes and works on it years later.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Its stuff like this is why you have to qualified to do electrical work in the UK, homeowners are not allowed to mess with their own wiring.
The code is not just to protect the homeowner and the buildings, its also to protect the professional electrician who comes and works on it years later.

In the US a thing called an owner/builder permit is required in order to a homeowner do his or her own work. This involves an inspection to make sure it's done correctly.
Obviously it's not the case here

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What’s crazy? It was not already done when I posted the thread. I obviously wasn’t sure the best way to fix it so I was looking for advice. Being without power isn’t something that you want to drag out for multiple days or weeks so I fixed it quickly. No one mentioned it wasn’t allowable until it was already done.

you never mentioned that you would be pulling the wire in the way you did.

No way we could predict all the potential code violations you could run across.

Have you seen how thick the NEC is?

You can try and blame the forum for not pointing it out to you but in the end, the violation is on you.

 

[frankush]

Its stuff like this is why you have to qualified to do electrical work in the UK, homeowners are not allowed to mess with their own wiring.
The code is not just to protect the homeowner and the buildings, its also to protect the professional electrician who comes and works on it years later.

Bravo! I could not have said it better.

 

[ard]

its also to protect the professional electrician who comes and works on it years later.

oh please.

Like we have piles of dead and maimed electricians here in the US from dangerous work done by owners?!

Yes, there are hacks.....But IMO most requirements for licensed [electricians, plumbers, contractors] to work in a jurisdiction are driven by $$$$

 

[bdog]

you never mentioned that you would be pulling the wire in the way you did.

No way we could predict all the potential code violations you could run across.

Have you seen how thick the NEC is?

You can try and blame the forum for not pointing it out to you but in the end, the violation is on you.

I’m not blaming anyone. In my original post I asked about splicing the original wires together in the meter box and pulling new wire for the main service. No one had anything negative to say about that but I thought it was unsafe so I bought two sets of new wire and did essentially the same thing but with continuous wire.

I have never seen the NEC book and don’t want to. As wild as it may sound to many of you I have done a fair amount of electrical work. I have completely wired a house, and have wired four shops (I didn’t do the original wiring at this place that was the previous owner). While I don’t know all the intricacies of the code I have a fairly good grasp on what is safe and functional.

I’m not trying to argue with anyone. It isn’t to code. I get that. All I am saying is I thought what I was doing was ok and I did it and it is done and I believe it is safe. I looked for the special meter bases with dual lugs and the terminal boxes and neither Lowe’s or Home Depot had them. Electrical supply places were not open when I was buying materials or I would have gone there. I needed to get this done right away.

As to someone getting hurt anyone with two brain cells is going to assume there is a good chance any wire running between the meter and the panel is hot if the meter is in place.