How the times have changed

[fm2176]

Okay, so I'm nowhere near the oldest (most experienced?) user of these forums, but I still find it funny how much things have changed during my adulthood when it comes to tradesmen and the tools they use. For the sake of brevity, this initial post will focus on only a few of my observations.

* Twenty years ago I installed gutters. Our drills were B&D and Dewalt Univolt, mostly with 7.2v and 8.4v batteries. The hammer drill ran on 12v. I seem to recall that we had no quick chargers either, instead relying on a good supply of batteries. Now 12v is considered compact and 20v seems to be the trend. Even basic homeowner tools come with quick chargers, allowing for moderately steady usage with just two batteries.

* I started working at Great Dane shortly after turning 18, as a dropout with no experience and very few tools. Six months later a large Cadillac dealership hired me. They sent me to the GM campus in Fairfax, where I spent a few months attending classes Monday and Tuesday of each week, with $100 expense cash and a rental car. Shortly after (@1999) the campus' were shut down and GM went to a correspondence program. From what I understand now, most entry-level positions require at least some trade school, and it would be almost impossible to get a job without even a GED.

* During my time at Moore Cadillac air tools were the norm for all technicians. Cordless tools were unseen in the service shop. Perusing these forums makes it clear that many technicians forgo air lines for batteries nowadays. I know I don't miss dragging 100'+ of air line trying to work on a 53' trailer parked outside the bay.

Anyway, I could go on, but will likely only bore you all even more. Anyone else care to share some of their observations on how occupations and tool preferences have changed over the years?

 

[zTimbo]

Even in my short 27 Years on Earth I've sit back and watched the evolution of cordless tools. Seems like the voltage and the price goes up every year.


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[ecotec]

When I first started as an electrician (21 years ago), I worked with and old man that started his career using a brace and bit. He is the guy to talk to about observing change

I started out in residential. I did it for four years. I guess the tipping point for cordless (in my opinion) will be when electricians are drilling out whole houses with cordless drills. We are not there yet. Electricians are still using compact drills and hole hawgs for drilling out homes.

I do industrial,commercial these days. Most companies use cordless band saws, sawzall, etc. these days. Those tools were corded when I started.

I think our generation has a lot less arthritis because of the better tooling of today

 

[ecotec]

Even in my short 27 Years on Earth I've sit back and watched the evolution of cordless tools. Seems like the voltage and the price goes up every year.

Maybe… I see more and more stuff done with 12 volt every year. The lighter weight tools are probably a lot better for us when we are doing repetitive tasks like electrical finishes (plugs, switches, light fixtures…).

 

[MushCreek]

I still have many of my corded tools, dating back to the mid 70's. I'm building my own house right now, and have rarely used corded tools. I bought a set of Milwaukee M18 tools, and never looked back. Even the circular saw keeps up just fine. I bought a set off of ebay for $225 that had a list price of $700, and a street price of $400. I then shopped around for more batteries, and I have a total of 5. I've never gone through all 5 in a day.

There's new stuff out there, too. I have 6 nail guns- framing, siding, finish(2), brad, and strap shot for metal brackets. When I was a kid, no one used any nailers. Now they have one for every purpose, and they're well worth it. Kreg pocket jigs are great, and they make a whole bunch of other things, too. The multifunction oscillating tool, which started out as a detail sander, is also handy. I use it more than I ever thought I would. Things that are impossible to reach any other way are suddenly made possible with a variety of saw blades. I like my sliding miter saw better than any radial arm saw I ever used.

The best thing about building my own house is that the wife agrees that I need every tool ever invented to make it easier. Life is good!

 

[DonPowers]

Learned electronics in the Navy back in the early 70's. A Simpson 260 was the workhorse of the day. If calibration was required it took a plethora of equipment. Today, a task that once took bench load of equipment is easily done with a Fluke multifunction process calibrator that can fit in the palm of your hand.

Power plant analog control cabinets once filled up an entire control room. Today a keyboard and a few monitors.

 

[wild cowboy]

when I was a kid 40 years ago, my father (a carpenter) used a clawhammer and nails for everything he built.

now he uses a Dewalt cordless drill and screws for everything and he probably couldn't even find his clawhammer!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Computers with a fraction of the power of your cell phone were the size of 4-8 side-by-side refrigerators. And they ran on 3 phase power ! A 300-500 MB disk drive was the size of a dishwasher.

Oscilloscopes were $10 of thousands. Storage add thousands more. Now you can buy a 4 channel digital storage 'scope for less that $500.

 

[DonPowers]

Computers with a fraction of the power of your cell phone were the size of 4-8 side-by-side refrigerators. And they ran on 3 phase power ! A 300-500 MB disk drive was the size of a dishwasher.

Oscilloscopes were $10 of thousands. Storage add thousands more. Now you can buy a 4 channel digital storage 'scope for less that $500.

And the tape storage units were also the size of a refrigerator. I remember using the dishwasher size disk drives for data acquisition during power plant startups in the late 70's and early 80's.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Kreg pocket jigs are great,

I have used mine a few times. I just have to remember I have it because there are so many other things it can do !

The multifunction oscillating tool, which started out as a detail sander, is also handy. I use it more than I ever thought I would.

I have only used mine for detail sanding and it works great.

Speaking of sanders, I have following CORDED sanders:

• belt sander
• 1/2 sheet sander
• random orbit sander
• 1/4 sheet palm sander
• oscillating tool

 

[DonPowers]

Anybody remember using punch cards to input data?

When I went to engineering school, after the navy, we were transitioning from slide rules to calculators, many only had 4 functions and some professors wouldn't allow them when taking a test. I spent $400 on a HP 45 that had 45 functions and was not programable.

 

[wild cowboy]

Anybody remember using punch cards to input data?

my first computer I got at age 14 in 1975 (still have it and it still works! - had to replace several electrolytic capacitors though)

 

[DonPowers]

my first computer I got at age 14 in 1975 (still have it and it still works! - had to replace several electrolytic capacitors though)

Trash 80 Model 1 in 1979, expansion interface, double density disk controller and 300 baud modem. No internet back then, as we know it today, only bulletin boards.

 

[Tellingthem]

I was born in 1977 in a small town in Michigan. Grew up on a dirt road that shared a telephone line with the neighbors. Had a record player and an antenna which got three tv channels on a good night.

Now I can go back to that exact same house and watch a video on Youtube of some guy in Australia showing how to fix my car. While buying said parts on ebay to be shipped from Germany, listening to a live concert in LA, and getting sent naked pictures of a girlfriend. On a single device that fits in my pocket. That can also make phone calls and play Super Mario Brothers.. That alone blows my mind!

 

[SquareLJ]

I was born in '86 and grew up in Orange County, CA. I do not know these struggles. I do remember having to go down to the public library for all my school projects and looking through all the books. In high school, it was done 90% on the computer.

 

[organ]

It smells like Gold Bond and moth balls in here...

 

[logical]

It smells like Gold Bond and moth balls in here...

The thread slowed down, I think a Golden Girls rerun must be on the TV.

 

[Erampu]

It smells like Gold Bond and moth balls in here...

I remember when we had to catch our own moths and rip off their balls...

 

[Zeke]

First few houses I framed I did with a 28 oz. Vaughn hammer. One to set and one to drive home. Nails were where they were supposed to be.

 

[n8n]

Moore in Chantilly? just on the other side of the airport from me...

 

[fm2176]

Moore in Chantilly? just on the other side of the airport from me...

No, Moore of Richmond--not sure if it's the same company as Moore of Chantilly or not, but I recall seeing the Moore emblem on Caddies as a kid and thinking it was a special edition (the Richmond dealer used the Cadillac font for their emblems). I did live in Alexandria for four years while stationed with The Old Guard in DC.

The Richmond store had a fairly small footprint, which was made worse when they started selling Saabs. They also opened a satellite lot across town and tried selling Daewoo for a short while. I quit, worked as a road tech for a forklift dealer for a bit, then joined the Army. Visited Moore when I got back from overseas and saw how overcrowded the lot was with Hummers and Subarus.

I recall the Fairfax GM campus having their make logos in the cafeteria: Chevrolet, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, and Saab. GM has half of those now, I think. The shop had a brand new Corvette that had crushed floorboards from being unloaded wrong, a Silhouette, and a prototype convertible Beretta (which flexed when the door was slammed). Our instructor told us of an experimental electric vehicle GM brought years earlier. We also got to watch an airbag deploy. Bag up, it shot about thirty feet into the air!

As for the thread slowing down, it's only mirroring most of us. I was working on a house earlier and just finished the 4 hour drive back home so I can prep for a 24-hour guard shift. Oh, and I don't watch the Golden Girls (yet); my MeTV recordings are limited to Adam-12, CHiPs, and especially the Rockford Files.

 

[jwsia]

I wonder how many more pounds of nails are used in a house built with nail guns compared to the same house done with a hammer and nails. my guess would be 25% more at least

 

[DonPowers]

I wonder how many more pounds of nails are used in a house built with nail guns compared to the same house done with a hammer and nails. my guess would be 25% more at least

Fewer pounded thumbs though.

 

[devoncoolman]

Old guys. I remember carburetors, bias ply tires, when there used to be a roy roger's on every corner. Things have changed for sure and they won't stop changing.

 

[slip knot]

I can remember when the dwell meter was used for every tuneup. not just for the old junker out there.

I actually got out of the mechanics game because of computers going in cars. Now I play with one every day.

 

[KnurledNut]

I wonder how many less pounds of nails are used in a house built with nail guns compared to the same house done with a hammer and nails. my guess would be 25% less at least

Fixed it for you.

 

[FMC1959]

Old guys. I remember carburetors, bias ply tires, when there used to be a roy roger's on every corner. Things have changed for sure and they won't stop changing.

I remember back in the 60's, just about every other mile there would be a car pulled over on the highway with a flat or blowout.

Adjusting points, wires and electronics were so susceptible to water and humidity, ballast/resistors, tuning your car minimum twice a year wasn't what you did for fun or tinkering, it was to keep your car running.

 

[David W]

I can remember in the 70's, anyone who got a new car HAD to get a new set of tires within 5000 miles. New car tires had the reputation of being the tire company quality rejects and getting a new set of tires sooner rather than later was an accepted fact of life. And even with a new set of good tires, they only lasted 20 or 30 thousand miles.

You could count on replacing at least 2 mufflers and most if not all of the exhaust system within 100 thousand miles, assuming the car lasted that long. Most people bought a new car every 2 years and other than taking it back to the dealer 2 or 3 times for warranty work, generally no maintenance was done.

Now my dad was a bit different. He bought new but then drove them until they dropped, or until one of my older brothers totaled it out first. Usually it was the latter. Hanging on to a car more than 2 years required a bit of maintenance so the oil got changed every 20,000 miles whether it needed to be or not. There were full service gas stations those days so the oil did get checked and a quart added every third fill up or so.

Other than adding water to the battery every now and then he practiced what is called the fix it after it breaks maintenance philosophy. Fortunately pay phone booths were everywhere in the city so we didn't have to hoof it very far to call somebody to help.

At least I didn't have to walk to school 10 miles up hill both ways like my dad's generation did!

 

[oldldh]

When I was a "wee bairn"...

Airplanes were covered in canvas...

You repaired the wings with a needle and thread, and "dope" was what you spread around on the repair, not what you smoked...

I win!!!!

 

[organ]

I wonder how many more pounds of nails are used in a house built with nail guns compared to the same house done with a hammer and nails. my guess would be 25% more at least

25% more nails, 25% less wood.

 

[redmondjp]

I can remember in the 70's, anyone who got a new car HAD to get a new set of tires within 5000 miles. New car tires had the reputation of being the tire company quality rejects and getting a new set of tires sooner rather than later was an accepted fact of life. And even with a new set of good tires, they only lasted 20 or 30 thousand miles.

You could count on replacing at least 2 mufflers and most if not all of the exhaust system within 100 thousand miles, assuming the car lasted that long. Most people bought a new car every 2 years and other than taking it back to the dealer 2 or 3 times for warranty work, generally no maintenance was done.

Now my dad was a bit different. He bought new but then drove them until they dropped, or until one of my older brothers totaled it out first. Usually it was the latter. Hanging on to a car more than 2 years required a bit of maintenance so the oil got changed every 20,000 miles whether it needed to be or not. There were full service gas stations those days so the oil did get checked and a quart added every third fill up or so.

Other than adding water to the battery every now and then he practiced what is called the fix it after it breaks maintenance philosophy. Fortunately pay phone booths were everywhere in the city so we didn't have to hoof it very far to call somebody to help.

At least I didn't have to walk to school 10 miles up hill both ways like my dad's generation did!

I was just talking to a couple guys this afternoon about this exact same topic. They both have Toyota pickups with close to 200K miles on them and they have never even changed the spark plugs! I remember doing points and plugs every 5K miles, and point quality got so bad that I had to clean and reset the points every 1500-3K miles.

But back to tools, the thing about old-school tools like a hammer and a corded drill: in 10, 20, even 30 years from now I'll be able to take one out of the drawer and it will still work! There is definitely something to be said for that.

 

[Seppala]

I remember cheating out on a tune up, I told the counterman, " no plugs, I'll just blast the ones I got, just give me points and a condenser."

 

[never enuf time]

Zeke, I was happy to finally get to use my 28oz Vaughn. As a 15 year old on the framing crew, all I did was carry wood all f@#cking day. No skytrack, no crane.

When I finally got to the point of building walls, I didn't get to use "the nail gun" we only had one. I could also do the set & sink while having one foot on stud,other on plate.

 

[redmondjp]

I remember cheating out on a tune up, I told the counterman, " no plugs, I'll just blast the ones I got, just give me points and a condenser."

Heh heh! In high school auto shop I used to sandblast plugs all the time (a buck a plug was a lot more money back then). And what's really funny is that I just purchased the same type of wall-mounted spark plug sandblaster at a nearby estate sale (of a retired auto shop teacher, figures) for $5. I just had to have it for old times' sake. It's made by Vixen.

 

[7thDimension]

I'm only 18, was born in '96, but have been doing construction related stuff and building things for as long as I can remember...

I have a pretty good tool collection now, but I've only had a few years to put it together, obviously. I always try to buy old, used stuff and tools instead of buying anything new, old stuff just seems to be of better quality to me...

I have a few 18v Milwaukee fuel tools, but for some reason I prefer using a good hammer and a box of nails instead of the impact driver for fastening.


I used to be all for new technology and being an early adopter, but now I prefer more old school things and methods. I'm just not into disposable stuff and cutting corners... Although I'm sure this is not normal for people my age.

By the way, when I was born, my parents had a computer, internet access, and cell phones. So I'm sure I have a different perspective than many of you.

 

[CNGsaves]

I remember when we had to catch our own moths and rip off their balls...

I remember at summer camp, catching lightning bugs and tearing off their illuminated peckers and sticking them on our ******* !!

 

[jsaw]

A telephoneused to have a cord attatched to the receiver to dial a number you ha to put your finger in the correct hole and turn the dial.

We had a small black and white tv with rabbit ear antennas that picked up 3 channels.

 

[jackfork]

And the tape storage units were also the size of a refrigerator. I remember using the dishwasher size disk drives for data acquisition during power plant startups in the late 70's and early 80's.

My day job is in a data center. Our tape library is about the size of two refrigerator's, and we have many systems using 3 phase still.

 

[RedneckWelder]

I can remember in the 70's, anyone who got a new car HAD to get a new set of tires within 5000 miles. New car tires had the reputation of being the tire company quality rejects and getting a new set of tires sooner rather than later was an accepted fact of life. And even with a new set of good tires, they only lasted 20 or 30 thousand miles.

You could count on replacing at least 2 mufflers and most if not all of the exhaust system within 100 thousand miles, assuming the car lasted that long. Most people bought a new car every 2 years and other than taking it back to the dealer 2 or 3 times for warranty work, generally no maintenance was done.

Now my dad was a bit different. He bought new but then drove them until they dropped, or until one of my older brothers totaled it out first. Usually it was the latter. Hanging on to a car more than 2 years required a bit of maintenance so the oil got changed every 20,000 miles whether it needed to be or not. There were full service gas stations those days so the oil did get checked and a quart added every third fill up or so.

Other than adding water to the battery every now and then he practiced what is called the fix it after it breaks maintenance philosophy. Fortunately pay phone booths were everywhere in the city so we didn't have to hoof it very far to call somebody to help.

At least I didn't have to walk to school 10 miles up hill both ways like my dad's generation did!

Dad grew up in the '60s and '70s. He had to work on the family car many nights just so his father could drive it to work the next day (he had a 120 mile roundtrip commute). Dad would stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning or pulling all-nighters to yank the engine and swap in the spare, or do rebuild work on it. Dad mentions much of the same issues, poor vehicle life, poor tire life/reliability, poor reliability period, etc.

By the time I came along the "we gotta work on the car" interval was cut way down. But our high mileage stuff meant that we still paid regular visits to the parts store, so I grew up working on stuff with Dad on the weekends.

And now I seldom have to work on my truck beyond normal PM, and that's a 16 year old truck with a quarter million miles on it. Sometimes I go months without setting foot into a parts store.

 

[David W]

Dad grew up in the '60s and '70s. He had to work on the family car many nights just so his father could drive it to work the next day (he had a 120 mile roundtrip commute). Dad would stay up until 2 or 3 in the morning or pulling all-nighters to yank the engine and swap in the spare, or do rebuild work on it. Dad mentions much of the same issues, poor vehicle life, poor tire life/reliability, poor reliability period, etc.

By the time I came along the "we gotta work on the car" interval was cut way down. But our high mileage stuff meant that we still paid regular visits to the parts store, so I grew up working on stuff with Dad on the weekends.

And now I seldom have to work on my truck beyond normal PM, and that's a 16 year old truck with a quarter million miles on it. Sometimes I go months without setting foot into a parts store.

That's a brutal commute. No second car? We were always at least a one car one truck family so when something major did break, we could still get around. The usual repair was a new starter or water pump. Dad would be removing the bad one while mom went to the parts store for a new one and invariably come home with the wrong part.

These days I have at least 3 older but PAID FOR cars and trucks for the primary reason of having another vehicle to get around in until the broke one can be repaired at my leisure.