How to find pex lines in concrete

[heli-easy]

So here is my problem. My shop was built by the PO 10 years ago. All i have is a permit with a vague description of the building.
The shop has radiant floor heat. Pex lines running in the concrete. One of the breakers in the panel was labeled Lift. So i think there may be spots in the concrete where my heat lines are not run so a lift could be drilled to the floor.
Any ideas on how to find where the lines are located in the concrete? Anyone know a trick i could use?
I really want a lift but if i drill the floor and hit a line I will have a ton of work to cut into the floor to repair the line that got hit.

Some have said. Just drill it. The lines are small, there is a good chance you will miss it anyway. Well they don't know my luck. Cause there is a 110% chance of me hitting a line, when i go to drill the last hole. Any ideas?


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[bulwnkle]

Could you let the slab cool and then turn the heat on and use an IR thermometer to locate the lines?

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[fdtrucks]

I almost wonder if you were able to run water over the floor early in the morning keeping it cool, then cranking up the heat and have a thermal imaging camera on hand to look for all the warm runs before the heat can be dispersed evenly in the concrete would work?

 

[Shawn S]

Thermal imaging. Borrow a camera from your plumber, HVAC guy, water restoration guy.

 

[barks]

Ask the PO where the lines are.

 

[oldcpecdr]

Get a thermal image camera PROFESSIONAL to do a site map and mark the floor!!!

A few years ago I sold some lifts to a large auto dealer... my installer and I used a IR heat scanner thinking we were saving a few bucks.... on the very last install drill.....oops.... Old Faithful Geyser!!! NOT cheap to fix our mistake.

The last few years we have just included the Thermal Camera scan in our quotes...no more geysers and amazing how random that pex ends up after the concrete pour.

Our guy charges us 300 a scan ....worth every penny ....

Mike B

 

[jubilee]

Witch it with a bent wire/ coat hanger. You'll have to do it on your hands and knees with wire as close to floor as possible because of the spacing of the water lines. I witched a friends heated garage floor before installled some anchor bolts and if I remember the lines were about 12" apart.

 

[Thumper68]

No need to cool the floor just get a hold of a FLIR camera and you will see the lines when they are on.

Random pic from the web.

 

[heli-easy]

Ask the PO where the lines are.

Kind of hard, as he has died


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[Radix2]

I haven tried it, but some recommend turning the system on and wetting the floor with alcohol or acetone if it is absorbent and the heat will dry the pipe runs showing the pattern. Water might work too.

 

[heli-easy]

I will try the thermal camera. Found that Home Depot will rent one of these expensive cameras.


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[4 FN 27]

Thermal imaging. Borrow a camera from your plumber, HVAC guy, water restoration guy.

▲▲▲▲▲This▲▲▲▲▲

In case you drill though one the only fix is to chisel it out, make the repair and fill the area with Concrete. This is not ideal for the area under a lift pad.

I had to repair 1 in my Garage attached to the house. Long story but the Concrete guys pushed the sleeves to run water into the Garage down and concreted over them. So they had to re-drill for the sleeves and I told them to drill from the Basement Garage up through the existing holes where the sleeve were that way they would miss the lines. They didn't listen and drilled from the top and hit one. The guy doing the Epoxy Coating on my floor filled the hole with solid epoxy and ground to smooth and coated the floor. You cannot tell it happened but it cost the Concrete guys $2500.

Last fall my Electrician hit one in my Machine Shop floor installing a Grounding Rod for my Plasma Table. I put the X on the floor where to drill since my instructions to the Pex installer was to stay 12-18 inches away from the walls...well they didn't. In this case since the room is 40 x 40 roughly we just turned off that loop since it was on an interior wall and there are 7 Loops. So far it has not been an issue. But you need to have the right Manifold where you can turn the flow completely off.

Invest the time and money in the Thermal Imagining!!!

 

[sstec]

I have both the Flir one and PRO.
Both work great for what you are trying to do.

http://www.flir.com/flirone/

sstec

 

[brownbagg]

concrete bit will find them everytime

 

[johnnyradiant]

Years ago, before FLIR, I had success with a warm floor and water, and even just my hand (but that is best after the initial warm-up but before the whole slab has heated up. Local rental places have FLIR's for rent here and HD as previously mentioned. A few extra bucks in the scheme of things, so small if it is just part of the whole job you wont even notice it any more than a daily coffee. If you are luckier than me and only hit one line it will be something you will likely have a number of emotions about and a number of few choice words, and an annoying memory long after you finished your repair.

 

[walrus]

I had a home inspector come in with his thermal imaging device. I had clear spots in my radiant floor for a future lift. I documented those spots with tape measures and pictures but hard drive died and lost pics I knew approx where the areas were but no way was I interested in ruining my solar radiant floor by drilling thru pex. It was late summer, turned the system on, he got clear images of where tubes were, my memory was close but not perfect. Worth the 100 bucks to be sure

 

[NUTTSGT]

I will try the thermal camera. Found that Home Depot will rent one of these expensive cameras.


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Got any friends on the local fire dept if they have one ? Might be worth a phone call and see if they want to do some "training."

 

[Platonic Solid]

Buy the FLIR E4 for $1,000 and hack it to become a $3000 E8. The only difference between them is the software resolution setting. That's what I did.

 

[wssix99]

I will try the thermal camera. Found that Home Depot will rent one of these expensive cameras.

I have the previous generation of this camera. It will show you fuzzy lines where the PEX is and will give you an idea if a clear space was actually laid out in the floor.

If not, it is not so accurate that I think I would drill based on what I see in the camera. (My lines are 5" below my slab, so that distorts the crispness of the returns. If your lines are closer to the surface, then you'll get a sharper reading.

^ The high end cameras that the fire department has are golden and perfect for this. There is a thread somewhere around here with an example of what these cameras look like for pex hunting.

 

[finn]

My spray foam contractor stopped by with his iPhone and a Flir thermal imaging attachment.

Worked great: clearly showed the tube location.

I used some spray paint to mark the tube location in the area around the proposed lift installation while he held the camera.

I decided on a different layout in the end and bought my own thermal attachment for my iPhone, a Seek unit. Resolution is not nearly as good as that of the Flir.

Other people have told me that a light coat of water on the floor, then firing up the boiler and pumps will work.

 

[biggziff]

Local Home Inspectors will likely have a Thermo-Cam.