I need help figuring out how to heat my shop space. I using only have time to be out there a couple times a week. Istallation cost is of concern as well as operating cost. I haven't pour concrete yet. I know in slab radiant is efficient, but i am not sure i want to keep the temp up all the time. Throw out some ideas. I have Natural gas and Electric both available. Also is it really worth the cost to insulate under the slab? I will insulate the perimeter regardless of the heating method. It is currently a blank slate. Let the ideas fly.
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How to Heat a 36x54x16 (Efficiently)
- Thread starter Brad Beam
- Start date
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
I think radiant is the greatest way to heat something for comfort...but I don't think it is necessarily the cheapest way and CERTAINLY it is cheaper to only heat your space part time rather than full time.
If you have natural gas availabile, I'd suggest using one or two gas unit heaters (hanging furnaces) to heat with as they are on the cheaper end of cost for installation and won't kill you on the heating cost. You can go with a little more BTU than your heat loss calculation shows to give you a good ability to heat the garage up to your set point when you want to go out there and work.
Any electric solution, other than a heat pump, will cost 3 times as much as the gas does to opperate.
Phil
If you have natural gas availabile, I'd suggest using one or two gas unit heaters (hanging furnaces) to heat with as they are on the cheaper end of cost for installation and won't kill you on the heating cost. You can go with a little more BTU than your heat loss calculation shows to give you a good ability to heat the garage up to your set point when you want to go out there and work.
Any electric solution, other than a heat pump, will cost 3 times as much as the gas does to opperate.
Phil
jklingel
Well-known member
Agreed on the radiant for temporary heating. Expect about one hour per inch of concrete to get the floor warm; rule of thumb. I'd focus more on how you are going to insulate, whether to use a vapor barrier or not, etc. Any way to partition a smaller area to work in for small stuff? That is a huge volume to heat sporadically. I don't think you'll find an easy answer, but the suggestion of an over-sized heat source is probably good advice. Good luck. j
nate379
Banned
Hr per in to get the floor warm, but that isn't even starting to warm the air. I was on vacation and when I came home it was around 47* in the house. It took close to 24hrs to get it up to 68*
I have been thinking of putting a separate air heater in my garage since if I leave the vehicle door open for a while it takes forever to warm the garage back up.
OP, how about a wood stove? Either that or do a natural gas heater like the Hot Dog units and just kill the power to it when you aren't in the shop. Those units are very common here for garages.
I have been thinking of putting a separate air heater in my garage since if I leave the vehicle door open for a while it takes forever to warm the garage back up.
OP, how about a wood stove? Either that or do a natural gas heater like the Hot Dog units and just kill the power to it when you aren't in the shop. Those units are very common here for garages.
Last edited:
jklingel
Well-known member
Correction: Make that "1 to 2 hrs/inch of concrete for change in temp", and I assume that means a few degrees. 47 to 68 would take a long time.
Where are you located. I'd worry about insulation and tightness more than anything else. Radiant needs to be kept on so that doesn't sound good for only using the place a few times a week. A vented gas heater seems like a good option, no worries about it freezing and will get it up to temp quickly.
mikefromme
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2009
- Messages
- 266
Put in the tubes -- even if you don't think you will use them.
And then how about solar radiant?? It would keep the barn warmer than nothing.
http://www.arttec.net/Solar/BarnHeat.html
And then how about solar radiant?? It would keep the barn warmer than nothing.
http://www.arttec.net/Solar/BarnHeat.html
Tubes will add a bunch of cost. (Concrete pump and a larger crew). I can pour the floor with out tube by myself a coupe of friends and a cooler of beer. Anybody use infrared tubes? How efficent are they to run? I am worried about not keeping the space fairly controlled as i have some pretty expensive equipment
Dragster Racer
Well-known member
I'm lost. Why the pump and a larger crew? I'm not a fan of floor heat in shops period, but I did it in my basement and attached garage just in case I wanted to use it. Couple hours work, and nothing special with the concrete.
The tube heaters are great, and may be just the ticket for you. My hanging forced air works well for my 40X40, but would take a while in yours.
The tube heaters are great, and may be just the ticket for you. My hanging forced air works well for my 40X40, but would take a while in yours.
I spent quite a bit of time considering radiant before i poured my floor. In the end, I just decided to go another route.
For my 30x56x12 a 75k btu Mr Heater was the solution. After 6 months of no call backs from the Gas and Electric, I called my local co-op and had them deliver a 250 Gal Propane tank. I went through about 125 Gallons of propane this year. It was one of the colder winters we have had in the last 20 years. I keep the shop around 45-50 and bump it up to 60 when i went out there. I particularly like the ability to quickly change the shop temp. (No wasting heat when i am not out there). This is not an option with radiant. The 75K btus was more than enough for solid weeks of single digits this year.
With all that said my number one recommendation to you is insulation. My walls are R19 and my ceiling R30. My shop is pretty air tight and I believe that helps a ton!
For my 30x56x12 a 75k btu Mr Heater was the solution. After 6 months of no call backs from the Gas and Electric, I called my local co-op and had them deliver a 250 Gal Propane tank. I went through about 125 Gallons of propane this year. It was one of the colder winters we have had in the last 20 years. I keep the shop around 45-50 and bump it up to 60 when i went out there. I particularly like the ability to quickly change the shop temp. (No wasting heat when i am not out there). This is not an option with radiant. The 75K btus was more than enough for solid weeks of single digits this year.
With all that said my number one recommendation to you is insulation. My walls are R19 and my ceiling R30. My shop is pretty air tight and I believe that helps a ton!
tatra
Well-known member
a location of where you want to build would help..........i have an electric forced air furnace in my shop, and over 2 winters came to the conclusion it worked out to be a wash heating the shop up from a dead cold to comfort level one year as opposed to keeping the heat at just above freezing and warming up the place the next year..............also warm up time was much lessobviously.........my vote will always be in floor as i have had to work on cold concrete way too much to not recommend it.............and installing the tubes is the way to go even if you decide on an alternate source; selling feature, may come across a killer deal on a boiler, etc...........only prob i have with in floor is the evaporation rate of snowmelt neccssitates the need for dehumidifers as the humidity level soars..........rusty tools, wood warpge etc.............
a location of where you want to build would help..........i have an electric forced air furnace in my shop, and over 2 winters came to the conclusion it worked out to be a wash heating the shop up from a dead cold to comfort level one year as opposed to keeping the heat at just above freezing and warming up the place the next year..............also warm up time was much lessobviously.........my vote will always be in floor as i have had to work on cold concrete way too much to not recommend it.............and installing the tubes is the way to go even if you decide on an alternate source; selling feature, may come across a killer deal on a boiler, etc...........only prob i have with in floor is the evaporation rate of snowmelt neccssitates the need for dehumidifers as the humidity level soars..........rusty tools, wood warpge etc.............
Southwest Ohio.
nate379
Banned
I was saying that because for example, my Dad doesn't heat his shop unless he is working out there. It's not uncommon for it to be 10-15* in there, throw some wood in the stove and within 30-45 mins it's up to 70* Not something that will happen with floor heat, that's for sure!
Correction: Make that "1 to 2 hrs/inch of concrete for change in temp", and I assume that means a few degrees. 47 to 68 would take a long time.
redsky49
Well-known member
You first have to do your homework.
1. Compare the cost of your electric and gas utilities and determine the net cost per 1000 btuh. Generally, gas will win this comparison but not always, so do the comparison. If it's a tossup, equipment or installation requirements/costs may be the determiner
2. Perform a heat loss calculation to determine the required heating capacity.
3. You have two primary types of costs - capital (which includes the cost of the equipment including installation), and operating (which includes energy use, maintenance and depreciation). Insurance (confirm with your agent regarding combustion equipment), capital costs of money, etc are all about a wash for you, and normally would not be considered. If you are using this space on an occasional, as opposed to regular basis, your priorities will shift.
Perform a comparison of the various types of heat, based on the selected energy source, electric or gas. For example, if gas is the most efficient, you have the following choices:
Gas forced air. Typically a ceiling hung unit heater (or two), though a residential style furnace would allow ducting. Furnaces generally top out at about 100,000 btuh which may or may not be adequate for you.
Gas hot water. This may be in the form of a radiant floor, hot water baseboard, cabinet heaters, etc.
Gas radiant heat. These would be good choice, for example, if you generally work in only one area of the garage.
Each of the above have advantages and disadvantages - faster pick-up time with forced air, greater uniformity of heat with hot water, etc.
This will be a large expenditure so it will be worth your while to study the options, particularly in view of local requirements and standards. Once you have narrowed your options, especially energy source, a more detailed opinion can be offered.
As always, offered only as opinion
1. Compare the cost of your electric and gas utilities and determine the net cost per 1000 btuh. Generally, gas will win this comparison but not always, so do the comparison. If it's a tossup, equipment or installation requirements/costs may be the determiner
2. Perform a heat loss calculation to determine the required heating capacity.
3. You have two primary types of costs - capital (which includes the cost of the equipment including installation), and operating (which includes energy use, maintenance and depreciation). Insurance (confirm with your agent regarding combustion equipment), capital costs of money, etc are all about a wash for you, and normally would not be considered. If you are using this space on an occasional, as opposed to regular basis, your priorities will shift.
Perform a comparison of the various types of heat, based on the selected energy source, electric or gas. For example, if gas is the most efficient, you have the following choices:
Gas forced air. Typically a ceiling hung unit heater (or two), though a residential style furnace would allow ducting. Furnaces generally top out at about 100,000 btuh which may or may not be adequate for you.
Gas hot water. This may be in the form of a radiant floor, hot water baseboard, cabinet heaters, etc.
Gas radiant heat. These would be good choice, for example, if you generally work in only one area of the garage.
Each of the above have advantages and disadvantages - faster pick-up time with forced air, greater uniformity of heat with hot water, etc.
This will be a large expenditure so it will be worth your while to study the options, particularly in view of local requirements and standards. Once you have narrowed your options, especially energy source, a more detailed opinion can be offered.
As always, offered only as opinion
6768rogues
Banned
My 36x48 heats well with a 100k BTU Reznor natural gas hanging heater. I keep it about 40 degrees minimum and push it up to whatever temperature is appropriate for the work I am doing. Turn it up to 60, eat dinner, and it is nice to work out there. I had minimal insulation and it worked well. Finally last winter I added more insulation and now it works just as well but at a lower cost. No insulation in the floor.