How to land an electrical apprenticeship?

[babzog]

Hey folks,

So, I've been working in the IT field for the last 20+ years. I was recently part of the latest company layoff (Q4 wasn't very good). Feeling rather burnt-out as well. So, as I've tried to come to terms with what I want do, career-wise, in the next half of my life, it became increasingly clear to me that, I don't really have many skills or much schooling on which to stand. I went to university but didn't complete it. Ended up in high-tech, turning my hobby into my career. Over the years, I grew more and more disinterested in my job, but I always particularly enjoyed working with my hands - either doing my own projects at home or helping my Dad with jobs he had over the years. He taught me the basics of electrical and construction work, enough so that I have a clue as to what I'm doing and have an interest in learning more. I've done small upgrades in the house, replacing lights and plugs, adding a couple new wiring runs. Rewired the shop last year with all new 15, 20 and 50A circuits, new interior and exterior lighting.

So that's the backstory.

Location - Ottawa area, Ontario, Canada.

Me: Early-40's, relatively fit, good-humoured, good worker, reliable, own tools and transportation, take pride in my work and I even get along with customers (did consulting work for a few years - I understand how to manage the customer).

I was speaking with my brother about the field (he's a licenced C&M Electrician) and he was telling me, the hardest part is getting in. No kidding! Spent the day on the phone, calling company after company. Most simply told me they're not hiring. A couple told me they would be within the next month, but one of those whom I called back later, said he'd actually be looking for a 2nd-2rd year, he didn't have the time to teach someone new. A handful of resumes sent out. Went into one shop nearby and spoke to the HR rep. She said they do occasionally hire off the street but they prefer to hire from the kids they get from coop terms.

Some guys have just said the industry is slow at the moment. Union says their list is full but I need a referral to write an aptitude test to get on the list and the few folks at union shops I've spoken to said they would not refer me since they didn't know me.

Not discouraged, but, I'm not sure what I should be doing next. Should I keep calling and bugging the same guys (as a couple who were not hiring, told me I should do)? OTOH, if I were to go the union route, how do I get a shop to refer me?

Any other ideas besides grabbing these guys by the chops and saying "Hire Me!"?

 

[brownbagg]

most time get a job with a company as helper, there alway trade school, but the best way and god dont tell anybody i said this, Unions. they have the best training, join the union hall

 

[crewchief888]

if nobody is hiring, it's gonna be hard to change their minds.
if the union will only take you with a referral, and you cant get one, you're kinda S.O.L.

IMHO
at 40 it's getting a little late to be starting over in a new "career" isnt it?

not trying to offend you, it's hard enough getting a foot in the door when you're 20 and have no experience....unless you know someone.
around this area, theres still plenty of experienced journeymen in every field not working, (and still paying dues), they wont take kindly to their local hiring apprentices, it's job competition to them.
some will still take in apprentices, and make them pay for their training, dues,and travel expenses to the training site, knowing they will probably never land a job from the hall.
i know things are different north of the border, any chance you may be ble to get on with a non union contractor?

just my $0.02

 

[Spareparts]

In the States most Union Apprentice Programs have an age cutoff of 35yrs. Look into working at a local contractor in their warehouse filling job orders, that will get you into identifying all the necessary parts you use in that field. Then if they recommend that you get into the program get ready for some heavy math, books and tests will follow. That is where most applicants wash out, work 8 hrs and do class work and home work for about 3 yrs.

 

[Delta74]

move to Newfie land, I swear every job site I go to its over run by the Newfie maffia , anyway that said, you COULD do a Pre app course, basically its 6 months in school, its the First year of classes and at school work experiance, doing a bunch of dumb projects, 15 sq foot houses ect, while its not much, it DOES put you in the door at second year rate , you have some experiance and Ledore Inc. will still hire you for ALberta oil sands work with just your Pre app experiance, I roll my eyes at this, but we have lots of new hires that show up that cant even work a wrench, only exp is there pre app course. but they ARE hired.

sending you a PM as well

 

[frankush]

move to Newfie land, I swear every job site I go to its over run by the Newfie maffia , anyway that said, you COULD do a Pre app course, basically its 6 months in school, its the First year of classes and at school work experiance, doing a bunch of dumb projects, 15 sq foot houses ect, while its not much, it DOES put you in the door at second year rate , you have some experiance and Ledore Inc. will still hire you for ALberta oil sands work with just your Pre app experiance, I roll my eyes at this, but we have lots of new hires that show up that cant even work a wrench, only exp is there pre app course. but they ARE hired.

sending you a PM as well

If you want an easy way in, this sounds like the way to go. There are so many union tradesman out of work these days, the apprenticeship program is in slowwwwww gear. I will agree that union training is second to none. The other thing to remember is that apprentices do most of the grunt work. A union apprenticeship is 5 years of grunt work. Don't even think about bitching about it. Journeyman did it and they don't want to hear any sob stories. At 40, you'll feel like hell at the end of the day. If I was you, I'd go back to school if that's an option.

 

[sberry]

Get a shovel, if an old timer goes to pick it up beat him to it, you will stay employed.

 

[babzog]

Moving isn't an option, gotta make a go of it here. A couple of wiser folks than I whom I talked to said, get in non-union, then go union in the bigger markets once I've got my licence. I'm not afraid of hard work, will keep the body healthier than sitting on my ***. I know 40+ is later for starting a second career but I can't put it off any later. As it is now, I'd still have time for a 20-25 year career before I can retire... Not bad! If I went back to school, I'd need 8 years and who'd hire a 50 yr old fresh grad? If I were 30 and had the means... Different story. Gotta play the hand I have and I'm pretty stoked thinking about it. Just gotta get in...

 

[Delta74]

dont have to move, there camp jobs, up for two weeks, home for a week, they will either fly you direct, or repay flight costs to there fly out hubs. just means time away from home, but you will eat well.

 

[rick2752]

Have u considered going back to school for medical equipment repair? Would use a lot of your IT background. Don't how how it pays in Canada.

 

[jcar302]

I'm a NJ licensed electrical contractor.

I don't take issue with age since my 65 retired principal father with no mechanical skills easily outworks my younger brothers when i need some cheap help.

Just realize, for a contractor to send you out on your own, you need to be able to troubleshoot efficiently, pulling wires in a rough is easy, it's basically pattern following.
Also understand contractors generally hire guys to do things they themselves are getting to0 old and lazy for. I'm not there yet at 38, but i'm in well above average shape for someone my age, so i can still navigate attics and crawl spaces well, even when the attic is 115 degrees. For the most part, i wouldn't dream of ever hiring someone that couldn't take over those duties. Maybe even throw a little digging in there (man do electricians hate to dig).

I do commercial and residential mix, at over 40 commercial would be optimal for you, but without the residential experience (where most non union guys learn), it will be tough to get a commercial electrician job.

Union guys around here tend to be under achievers, most are happy to be on for enough time to get their benefits each year, that's about it. And while the union gets you schooling (which is worthless from a learning standpoint), they still don't promote getting your license.

I did a couple years of electrical school (when i found out 5 years of experience gave you the chance to take the test i stopped), it's was worthless, hands on is the only way to go.

I don't know how things work in canada, but here in NJ, IMO it takes 5-6 years at least to acquire the license then a few more to build up a clientele, so figure 7-8 years before you make any real money.

I'm all for you or anyone making a living or changing careers to be happy, just realize in the construction industry you start on the bottom at bottom dollar and there is always a 20 year old willing to make their start living at home with their parents.

 

[danski0224]

Me: Early-40's, relatively fit, good-humoured, good worker, reliable, own tools and transportation, take pride in my work and I even get along with customers (did consulting work for a few years - I understand how to manage the customer).

Any other ideas besides grabbing these guys by the chops and saying "Hire Me!"?

I can do all of that bolded stuff above, and none of it has helped me to maintain union employment.

In my neck of the woods, companies don't want you when you are over 40, and age discrimination is rampant once you hit 50. The only exception is when the benches are empty and jobsites need to maintain a body count to fulfill the project contract and GC requirements.

If you need extensive connections to "get in", what do you need to keep working? In my area, it isn't knowledge, skill or completion of additional union training classes and certifications, that's for sure.

Age limits for apprenticeship application have been removed in my area, however, maintaining work after you get your card/license at the full rate of pay will most likely be difficult/impossible at your age. That is reality.

The application practices you are encountering further establishes that the union is no more than a little club and they don't need you right now, and when/if they do "need you" there is no guarantee that you will be able to keep working to get enough hours for your benefits or for your license.

The only advantage the union would have compared to non-union isn't necessarily the depth of training, but the fact that the training is administered through the education division of the International union. Your training/hours continues to accumulate and remains valid working for any signatory contractor and the local union maintains this for you. That isn't necessarily true on the non-union side.

Hopefully, there is some sort of log kept of your hours worked if you choose to get your license through non-union employment. I'd make sure of it, and make sure that other non-union employers are able to participate in the program so your hours count.

Good luck.

 

[ForceFed70]

Kelowna BC here. Both my father and brother own electrical companies.

They do not hire anyone off the street unless it's a family member or good friend. In BC, you take the apprentiship program at school 1st, then approach a company for the apprentiship. Often the school will help you with this part. It's a 4 year deal, typically 3 months of classroom time followed by 9 months of time out in the field then repeat.

Being older may actually help you here. My Dad and brother both complain bitterly about the quality of the apprentices they get nowadays. Too much of the videogame generation I guess. Being an electrician is a physically demanding job and the apprentices get the worst of the jobs. They expect you to work hard, hussle, and not complain. Don't even mention the word "fair". They won't ask you to do anything unsafe, but you can bet you'll be filthy and exhausted by the end of the day. Yuor body will get used to it, but it'll be a rough couple of months at the start.

I basically worked as an apprentice for my Dad during the summers when I was in my late teens working on commercial jobs. I clearly remember being exhausted for the 1st couple of weeks, even as a teenager. I'd be falling asleep in the van on the ride home (I never fall asleep in a moving vehicle). I'd get home, have a shower, eat dinner, and go straight to bed by 7pm only to have to drag my *** out of bed at 6am the next morning. It did get better after a couple of weeks tho.

 

[EricS]

To reinforce what ForceFed70 says the out here in BC the best way is to take pre-apprentice course at collage.When you come out the employer has at least a known starting point on what you know/can do.The time at school is recognized towards your apprenticeship for year 1 school and some hours.In BC after that your then required to complete three more 10 week school terms and the required hours to write your exam for journeyman papers.I'm currently half way through school second year electrical and this is pretty much how 70-75% of the apprentices I've run into got in.
If your fit,good work ethic and pull your weight your age will not be an issue.

Eric

 

[HAY YOU]

I'm a NJ licensed electrical contractor.

I don't take issue with age since my 65 retired principal father with no mechanical skills easily outworks my younger brothers when i need some cheap help.

Spoken like a true non-union business owner, cheap labor at 65 years old.

 

[Sureshot]

Spoken like a true non-union business owner, cheap labor at 65 years old.

Yes he should hire two union underachiever labourers who need the time to get benefits. Everyone wins.

 

[danski0224]

Spoken like a true non-union business owner, cheap labor at 65 years old.

Not limited to non-union.

Yes he should hire two union underachiever labourers who need the time to get benefits. Everyone wins.

+1, but the underachievers would have to be placed by a BA to be official. Bonus points if they were related

 

[HAY YOU]

In a man’s 30+ year working career there are all types of jobs in every trade that can be done by people of different skill levels & capabilities. (You are allowed to age & no one expects you to ****** & grab like a young man anymore) but you still have worth. A lot of retirees go back to work if work is good & they can do the job expected of them. When they do they get the going Journeymen’s wage, not some cheap labor wage. But hey that’s up to you…I just look at it as non-union folks just don’t know any better. If someone is deemed as a under-achiever all you have to do is get their money (lay them off). When work slows down you go anywhere in the country where work is booming and work at that Local’s going wage. When your non-union construction job ends & you don’t know what to do, you can just sit around & complain & blame union folks, Dems, illegal aliens, the rising price of milk, the N. Koreans or whoever else you can pin your troubles on instead of looking in the mirror.

 

[crewchief888]

guess it's really wrong that i make more hourly than most union mechanics do in the area.

and i've never been layed off in 30+ years...

 

[mtwaterguy]

In a man’s 30+ year working career there are all types of jobs in every trade that can be done by people of different skill levels & capabilities. (You are allowed to age & no one expects you to ****** & grab like a young man anymore) but you still have worth. A lot of retirees go back to work if work is good & they can do the job expected of them. When they do they get the going Journeymen’s wage

You're bringing up one of the biggest problems with todays unions. As you say, people have different skill levels and capabilities. Unfortunately they aren't compensated accordingly. Your example of the retiree coming back at a journeymans wage is wrong. He should be paid what he's worth. Try paying two union journeymen different wages based on their productivity. See how that works. I've been there.