How to learn stick welding?

[Dh3256]

I am trying to weld plates onto the frame of my truck to reinforce it. I have an Eastwood 135 that I tried using flux core wire, but it doesn't seem to get enough penetration on both pieces to work, I suspect it is underpowered for this application, in spite of their specs.

I got one of the Arccaptain 110 VAC inverter stick welders and have tried both polarities with 6013, 7014, and rustbuster electrodes. It's 1/8" steel I am trying to weld. I have a lot of trouble starting the arc, even at 130A it immediately sticks solid. I have done a little better on scrap practice, but am having no luck working on the truck. Part of the issue is that it is cramped working space, dark, and hard to see, but even so I can't get the arc started on the joint. If I bump the electrode on the plate accidentally, then it arcs loll. I have cleaned the metal until it shines, verified good ground connection, etc. but still no luck. It often won't even start in the joint, but when I can get it to start, it sticks.

I am not sure if it is my inexperience, the rods, the welder or what. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Any thoughts on resources to help me learn woud be appreciated as well. Thanks.

 

[dr_clyde]

You’re gonna need to spend a fair amount of time under the hood practicing, there is for sure technique involved in starting the arc and maintaining it. Think like you’re striking a match.

Watch a bunch of Jody’s videos at Welding Tips and Tricks. He has a lot of great beginner videos.

For 1/8” steel, I’d recommend some 3/32” 6013 and start around 80-90 amps. Use DCEN for your polarity on 6013. Keep a close arc, drag your puddle in the desired direction of travel.

 

[MJD1]

Those 110v stick welders lack the voltage needed to light up an electrode. It takes a given wattage to run an electrode. You set amperage but without enough voltage it won't light up or stay lit up. Inverter welders with arc force or hot start can be especially hard to start and maintain an arc.

 

[whateg01]

I don't generally advise welding vehicle frames or trailers as one's first welding project, especially if you don't know what you are doing. A 135A wire feed with flux core should be capable of welding 1/8" just fine, but there are many reasons it might not be working. I would suggest taking a class at a juco or finding a welder who can teach you and critique your welds.

 

[rattle_snake]

It's a PITA to learn, but the lessons can apply to other types. Make some boogers on scrap and have reasonable expectations of learning.

A better machine can help, however a good welder can get OK results with a ****** machine, so....

 

[OccupantRJ]

An awkward uncomfortable place on a vehicle chassis is not the place to learn stick welding. It takes long enough to get decent at it on a welding table. Slag inclusions can be a pain while learning. My AC/DC welder now only gets used for steel tig welding. Wait until those hot balls get to some skin under there.

 

[strength_and_power]

1/8” 6011 is my go-to, 6013, if I recall was a bit of a pain.
You’ll definitely want to run some practice pieces. Think of lighting the rod like striking a wooden match with just the slightest amount of pressure.

ABC, Always Be Comfortable. Doesn’t sound like this is really an option but do what you can.

Something to remember/ think about, the smallest movement of your wrist is going to cause a lot of movement at the tip. If you aren’t braced, any movement in your entire arm is going to cause movement. If you can’t find a place to brace on, can you move /clamp something so you can? To limit rod movement, you can grab the actual electrode with your other hand closer to the tip.

Can you move, tilt, tip your work for a better angle?

 

[whateg01]

It's a PITA to learn, but the lessons can apply to other types. Make some boogers on scrap and have reasonable expectations of learning.

A better machine can help, however a good welder can get OK results with a ****** machine, so....

If the machine doesn't have enough voltage, 60xx just isn't going to work out very well. A good operator can make up for some stuff, but sometimes the machine just isn't capable.

 

[whateg01]

1/8” 6011 is my go-to, 6013, if I recall was a bit of a pain.
You’ll definitely want to run some practice pieces. Think of lighting the rod like striking a wooden match with just the slightest amount of pressure.

ABC, Always Be Comfortable. Doesn’t sound like this is really an option but do what you can.

Something to remember/ think about, the smallest movement of your wrist is going to cause a lot of movement at the tip. If you aren’t braced, any movement in your entire arm is going to cause movement. If you can’t find a place to brace on, can you move /clamp something so you can? To limit rod movement, you can grab the actual electrode with your other hand closer to the tip.

Can you move, tilt, tip your work for a better angle?

Easier to learn by cutting off the rods short. Probably not real easy to flip the truck upside down to weld on it.

 

[KwikFab]

Stick welding is really easy to learn, but you're going to have a ton of trouble running on 110v

I would stick with flux or run dual shield even as it'll get some good penetration

Your truck probably has a 1/8" steel frame, just run your Eastwood

 

[no704]

Admire your wanting to learn. But this is a horrible place to start learning on. Get someone that knows what they are doing.

 

[Dh3256]

You’re gonna need to spend a fair amount of time under the hood practicing, there is for sure technique involved in starting the arc and maintaining it. Think like you’re striking a match.

Watch a bunch of Jody’s videos at Welding Tips and Tricks. He has a lot of great beginner videos.

For 1/8” steel, I’d recommend some 3/32” 6013 and start around 80-90 amps. Use DCEN for your polarity on 6013. Keep a close arc, drag your puddle in the desired direction of travel.

Thanks for the suggestions. Jody suggests using 1/16 rod for the 110 inverter machines, I will try that. It seems like I don't have enough power and that may help. I have been using 3/32 and 1/8.

 

[Dh3256]

Those 110v stick welders lack the voltage needed to light up an electrode. It takes a given wattage to run an electrode. You set amperage but without enough voltage it won't light up or stay lit up. Inverter welders with arc force or hot start can be especially hard to start and maintain an arc.

Yes, I wondered if the arc force was making it harder. Good points, it claims to put out 130 A but if that is not accurate and/or it is not producing enough voltage, it makes sense the rods won't melt well.

 

[Dh3256]

Stick welding is really easy to learn, but you're going to have a ton of trouble running on 110v

I would stick with flux or run dual shield even as it'll get some good penetration

Your truck probably has a 1/8" steel frame, just run your Eastwood

The problem I am having with the Eastwood is that the metal isn't penetrating on the truck side. I have it grounded to the frame nearby and the penetration on the plate is OK, but it is not penetrating to the frame, it just makes a ball that sits on top of the frame and is not bonded to the frame.

 

[dr_clyde]

1/16" rod would for sure help if you can't keep 3/32" lit. Just lower your amperage accordingly.

My Maxstar will do 3/32" 7018 on 120v input, but it's a Maxstar so it had better do as advertised...

If your machine isn't working as intended that will frustrate the pants off you.

 

[yatg]

$100 gets you a Lincoln AC225 tombstone just about anywhere.
Less than $100 gets you a Craftsman or a Wards or a Century.
Less than $200 usually gets you an AC/DC.

 

[LopezBart]

Make life easier on yourself:

• Use a auto-darkening helmet. Brightly light the area to be welded.
• Get some similar size scrap and practice welding in the same orientation as on your truck. If you need 1/16" rod, find some, or use a bigger welder.
• Thoroughly clean all surfaces to be welded w/ grinder, removing all rust. Yes, there are rods that will burn through rust, paint, etc.... This is not the place to rely on that.

 

[Dh3256]

1/16" rod would for sure help if you can't keep 3/32" lit. Just lower your amperage accordingly.

My Maxstar will do 3/32" 7018 on 120v input, but it's a Maxstar so it had better do as advertised...

If your machine isn't working as intended that will frustrate the pants off you.

I picked up some 1/16" 6013 (all they had available in that size) and some 1/8" 6011 to give that a try. I am suspicious the machine is not producing what they claim, I may try to measure that.

$100 gets you a Lincoln AC225 tombstone just about anywhere.
Less than $100 gets you a Craftsman or a Wards or a Century.
Less than $200 usually gets you an AC/DC.

Please tell that to my local sellers I only very rarely see anything other than low end HF welders listed at high prices. I did have an opportunity to buy a pretty beat up lincoln tombstone for $250, but passed on that. Too big, heavy, and overpriced.

Make life easier on yourself:

• Use a auto-darkening helmet. Brightly light the area to be welded.
• Get some similar size scrap and practice welding in the same orientation as on your truck. If you need 1/16" rod, find some, or use a bigger welder.
• Thoroughly clean all surfaces to be welded w/ grinder, removing all rust. Yes, there are rods that will burn through rust, paint, etc.... This is not the place to rely on that.

I am using a decent autodarkening helmet, and am cleaning the surfaces thoroughtly with an angle grinder and wire brush. I will practice more.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

 

[BigMike782]

I am a Miller fan boy but what about a HF Vulcan for 299.00? That should easily run 3/32 and 1/8" 6011 and 7014.
Sign up for the "club" and you might get a discounted price and if it schits the bed take it back.

 

[PCustoms]

I am using a decent autodarkening helmet, and am cleaning the surfaces thoroughtly with an angle grinder and wire brush. I will practice more.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.

Post a pic of your prep and the weld

 

[gmcgeo]

I have ran multiple Flux and Stick welders on 110v.

I built an entire trailer from a 110v Stick welder, and towed my jeep with that trailer.

110V welders can weld frames, trailers, etc. if the thickness is reasonable, you prep aggressively, and you don’t expect one fat pass to do it all. Where people get frustrated is trying to strike 1/8" 7018 off a bargain inverter or trying to weld a truck frame overhead without grinding a bevel. That’s where the “you can’t do it” crowd is coming from.


If you want consistency, you’d notice a big difference stepping up to a 220V machine. But if you want to stick with 110V, smaller rods/wire, beveled joints, and multiple passes are the way to make it work.


Learning on your frame is not a good idea though. I would start putting down some beads down on other things. Get some hours on you before tackling this.

 

[Dh3256]

Post a pic of your prep and the weld

Umm, I am a little embarrassed by my welds, they look ugly, I'm just trying to get functional welds at this point. That's a good suggestion, though, people may be better able to help if they can see what I am doing.

 

[Dh3256]

I am a Miller fan boy but what about a HF Vulcan for 299.00? That should easily run 3/32 and 1/8" 6011 and 7014.
Sign up for the "club" and you might get a discounted price and if it schits the bed take it back.

My longer term plan is to get a Primeweld 180, a lot of people seem to think those are pretty good. Apparently the only sale they do is on Black Friday, so I am waiting to buy. In the mean time, I'm trying to get my truck inspected so I can drive it (We have safety inspections in PA).

 

[LopezBart]

Learning on your frame is not a good idea though. I would start putting down some beads down on other things. Get some hours on you before tackling this.

If you can, find an experienced welder to critique your efforts. I was lucky enough to have a good friend spend time w/ me watching as I fumbled through my first welds. He would work in the shop and call out what I was doing wrong by the sound.

Another thing that helps is taking a systematic approach to tuning one's welding, changing one thing at a time and judging the result.

These is simply one way to get good at stick welding, and that's to burn lots of rod.

 

[gmcgeo]

Tips and tricks are good, but at the end of the day, you have to keep at it until you find your rhythm.

I have had some days that i threw my rods away cuz i thought they were the issue.... getting frustrated and giving it up for a week until i came back and kept going.

I am a believer on making what you have work. Not spending 1,000s on something that is not needed.

These are some of the frame work i did with a 75/25 gas 110v Lincoln mig years ago. Paid $200 for the set up then. Used on Craigslist

 

[1redTA]

My longer term plan is to get a Primeweld 180, a lot of people seem to think those are pretty good. Apparently the only sale they do is on Black Friday, so I am waiting to buy. In the mean time, I'm trying to get my truck inspected so I can drive it (We have safety inspections in PA).

Labor Day

 

[Dh3256]

Labor Day

I don't see any labor day sale on their site and most folks are saying Black Friday is when they have their annual sale. Am I missing something?

I did see the Weldmonger sale on the Primeweld equipment, looks like the MIG180 is about $50 off. Anyone know if the Primeweld Black Friday sale is likely to offer a greater discount?

 

[rsanter]

First off, you need to practice more.
second, for us non-experts at arc welding I find it easier to strike a good arc if the rod is already hot. I like to strike an ark and make a short bead on a scrap piece then go to the item to be welded. In your case I think I would clamp a plate to the frame near where you are welding so you can strike a short bead and then tgo tothe area to be welded

and the 135 should have enough power to make a good weld if you are using 030 wire, 023 is not good enough

 

[KwikFab]

I don't see any labor day sale on their site and most folks are saying Black Friday is when they have their annual sale. Am I missing something?

I did see the Weldmonger sale on the Primeweld equipment, looks like the MIG180 is about $50 off. Anyone know if the Primeweld Black Friday sale is likely to offer a greater discount?

Black Friday is when PrimeWeld offers their largest discounts.

Where ya located? I can show you how to stick weld as I have tons of scrap to practice on. Just got rid of over 17 sheets of 4' x 4' steel earlier today cause it was all excess.

 

[Dh3256]

Black Friday is when PrimeWeld offers their largest discounts.

Where ya located? I can show you how to stick weld as I have tons of scrap to practice on. Just got rid of over 17 sheets of 4' x 4' steel earlier today cause it was all excess.

Thanks for confirming the sale.

Thanks also for your kind offer, but unfortunately it appears we are too far apart.

 

[1redTA]

I don't see any labor day sale on their site and most folks are saying Black Friday is when they have their annual sale. Am I missing something?

I did see the Weldmonger sale on the Primeweld equipment, looks like the MIG180 is about $50 off. Anyone know if the Primeweld Black Friday sale is likely to offer a greater discount?

you caught me! I meant WeldMonger

 

[Dh3256]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

Tried Lincoln 6013 1/16" rods this past weekend. Started with 45A, the max they recommended, and it stuck. Increased to 50 A, still sticking. Tried rsanter's of heating rods first, that helped. Increased to 55A and it started working pretty well. So I conclude that the Arccaptain OCV is probably low and I need higher current setting. The 1/8" 6013 rods probably need more current than the max 130A setting on the unit.

I did some beads on flat scrap, then tried welding a 90 degree joint. Stuck well to the "loose" piece, but did not attach to the main pieced. Tried and fussed for a while, and eventually figured it was technique and positioning of the weld pool. Eventually got a solid but ugly joint (see attached photo, practice attempts are in front of the actual joint).

I'll try the flux core the next time I am in the shop, I'm thinking the issues with that might be settings on the machine. I'm suspicious I need a higher wire feed speed and will try increasing that.

What shade do you all recommend for the helmet? I was using 13 and having trouble seeing, tried 10 and that works better, but my eyes felt a little dry and "sunburned", like they do when I have been working in the sun all day in the summer.

 

[MovingAlong]

I am not sure if it is my inexperience, the rods, the welder or what.

Everything you're struggling with comes back to inexperience. Forget the tips & tricks, learn the trade first.

Most every community college offers a welding program. Education will help you understand the relationships between the components and settings.

On helmets though, I used $30 HF autodarking helmets years ago. They worked. I've got a Hobart from Amazon now ($110) that I'm happy with.

 

[PCustoms]

I did some beads on flat scrap, then tried welding a 90 degree joint. Stuck well to the "loose" piece, but did not attach to the main pieced. Tried and fussed for a while, and eventually figured it was technique and positioning of the weld pool. Eventually got a solid but ugly joint (see attached photo, practice attempts are in front of the actual joint).


View attachment 2399002

I'm sorry, but nothing about that pic says "solid joint".

It's a harsh reality, but you should not be welding anything structural at this time

 

[Dh3256]

I'm sorry, but nothing about that pic says "solid joint".

FWIW I did test it to failure on a strain tester, it is ugly but it was a solid joint.

I expect that prettier appearance will come with more practice, but the current goal is functional solid joints.

 

[MovingAlong]

FWIW I did test it to failure on a strain tester, it is ugly but it was a solid joint.

I expect that prettier appearance will come with more practice, but the current goal is functional solid joints.

Didn't want to say anything, but since you're insisting that is a solid joint - please, get some proper education. Learn about the "HAZ", how stress fractures develop and how to test for proper weld penetration.

You can do this "if" you take it serious. Insisting that is a solid joint is not taking things seriously...

 

[msharley]

The Electric Weld Eraser.....is yer friiiiiiiiieeeeeeeend...man

 

[rvieceli]

Community colleges are an excellent way to learn to weld. Either in the actual curriculum that leads to certifications or through the adult ed departments for hobbyists.

Back to sticking the rod, one of the most effective ways to learn is to take a piece of steel ground it and then make "dots". Take the rod strike an arc and deposit enough rod to make a raised bump then lift and repeat. Keep doing it until you don't stick the rod anymore.

Ron

 

[Dh3256]

Community colleges are an excellent way to learn to weld. Either in the actual curriculum that leads to certifications or through the adult ed departments for hobbyists.

Back to sticking the rod, one of the most effective ways to learn is to take a piece of steel ground it and then make "dots". Take the rod strike an arc and deposit enough rod to make a raised bump then lift and repeat. Keep doing it until you don't stick the rod anymore.

Ron

Thanks for the suggestions. I have been looking around for local welding classes but haven't really found much. Triangle Tech closed down a year or so ago but would have been a great option. There has to be something available, but CCAC doesn't seem to offer welding classes. I'm still looking to find something.

 

[BigMike782]

I understand that schools of higher learning are supposed to be a good thing but they generally don't fit the situation we are describing here.
I found that if I want a certificate, I could get a free ride but I don't need to know how to light an oxy fuel torch or what SMAW means. If I wanted training on what I need, vertical up, horizontal, overhead etc. it was 1,000.00 per class.