How to make a cheap table saw better?

[afbrian13]

I have a cheap Craftsmen tablesaw. I picked it up a few years ago and have used it occasionally, enough to know how handy it could be. The fence it came with is a royal pain to get straight and the miter gauge feels pretty cheap. Its hard to make straight cuts and theres enough play that even going very slow the sides of your piece burn because its trying to twist as you push.

What have you guys done to omprove your lower end saws? I know I'm not the only one who cant afford an expensive setup.

I was thinking of building a straight sled and a 45deg sled. That seems like it would cure a few issues.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance!
Brian

 

[kctyphoon]

Honestly, with what it might take to get to where you might want to be it might be a condsideration to just upgrade. Craigslist has some great deals on portable/jobsite saws that have extending tables and better fences.. If that's not an idea for you, then maybe an option is building your own table extension or even an out feed table behind the saw... A sled is another idea, but if you have a very small saw to begin with, the option or idea of a bigger table surface might be where to start.

I have a delta platinum contractor type saw with 36" rip capacity, and a very small/old skil table top saw.. The difference is night and day between them.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The sleds will help quite a bit.

Just what saw is it? You may be able to install an aftermarket fence that's higher quality. Other people may have experience with that particular saw and may be able to give you specific advice.

 

[justme-]

If it's the kind of saw I think you mean there's not much you can do - it was not designed with any accuracy inherent. I have an old Makita 8" with similar issues - sub standard miter slots (strip of bar stock) gives no accuracy, and a sled is tough on such a small table. my fence, tho, does clamp on both the front and rear edges of the table - I found checking front and back of the blade to fence with a tape then really tightening it down helps a lot. A rousseau table is about the only real improvement (got one too, works excellent) for everything except the miter slot, but if you're going to spend that kind of cash just upgrade saws. I could have gone with a "contractors saw", mobile base, and extended table for the same cost as my rousseas, side table, outfeed and Makita. My setup stores better and transports better (I used it in at jobs when needed), but for everything else it's worse.

 

[Milton Shaw]

A new carbide blade will make a big difference on anything you cut. It might not make a lot of difference on accuracy but a new blade will not burn and will cut two or three times better than the blade that came on that saw. That has been a general rule for the last 50 years or so to throw the blade away that comes on just about any type of saw and get a good carbide tip blade.

 

[woody 73]

I have stood in your shoes many a time...You need a good Biesemeyer fence for your table saw.

http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2008/0...guide-biesemeyer-vs-unifence-vs-vega-vs-incra

 

[gungatim]

for a contractor saw,

1. change the belt to a link belt to reduce vibration. HF used to sell a green one, don't know if they still do, but the red ones are readily available.

2. change out the pulleys to machined pulleys, the stock pulleys are usually stamped or cast and out of round/unbalanced.

3. get a good blade, Forrest, or a Freud diablo is a good choice too.

4. tune up the fence and the blade, make sure it's parallel to mitre slot with just a touch of toe out on the rear to reduce kickback. your saw will have specific procedures inthe manual, trunions mounted to the table I am sure.

5. consider replacing the fence, lots of good ones out there, it will cost as much as your saw though.

6. get a good mitre guage, accumiter, osborn, etc. then polish the mitre groove and peen the guage bar for a tight smooth fit.

7. get rid of the contractor saw and get a real cabinet saw. Grizzly's 10" is an exceptional value for the money, but you can't go wrong with a Delta Unisaw, Powermatic, or General...

 

[404]

The blade and trunion need to be aligned to the table slot. After that the axis of blade tilt needs to be aligned to be parallel to the table. This part is done with shims.

If there is burning when using the fence, the end of the fence has to be a little further away from the blade than where the wood is fed in. A few thousandth of an inch.

 

[Zeke]

Not much more can be said. If it's a 10" saw you can use an 8 1/4 blade for most work. Honestly, cutting at full height on a cheap saw isn't the best of all ideas. The 8" blade is more stable and teeth per inch cutting speed are a little less. If the shaft will allow, you can install large precision washers called stabilizers to stop the blade from vibrating. And yes, the fence needs to be tapped out just a skosh so the out feed side of the blade is not binding on the work or, in fact, cutting at all. Last thing you need is the blade cutting upwards.most of these little saws have enough slop that you can adjust the fence manually as you clamp it to do what 404 says.

 

[Voi]

Before you build a sled make sure the miter slots are parallel to each other and the blade is parallel to the slots.

If you plan on single runner sleds then just make sure the miter slot you plan to use is parallel to the blade.

I've seen some neat set ups where direct drive saws were built into an oversized workstation. Like this:

 

[exmaxima1]

I have stood in your shoes many a time...You need a good Biesemeyer fence for your table saw.

http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2008/0...guide-biesemeyer-vs-unifence-vs-vega-vs-incra

Bought a 30" Biesenmeyer fence for my old King-Seeley Craftsman saw (inherited) and it totally transformed the saw into a precision tool. When I upgraded to a vintage Unisaw, I moved the Biese to it and sold the pos Delta fence.

Another upgrade worth doing if you can find the parts is converting the saw & motor V-pulleys to MULTI-GROOVE. A few years ago I found a "kit" that was originally from Ridgid with both pulleys and a belt. It was around $40 total, and it made a crappy 80's model Craftsman saw run much smoother and efficiently. You could turn it off and the blade spins for 1/2 a minute. Still have that saw at work, and it's the only good thing about the entire saw.

 

[Zeke]

Before you build a sled make sure the miter slots are parallel to each other and the blade is parallel to the slots.

If you plan on single runner sleds then just make sure the miter slot you plan to use is parallel to the blade.

I've seen some neat set ups where direct drive saws were built into an oversized workstation. Like this:

That is a sweet set up. Looks like it has a sawdust drawer, good idea.

 

[lilredex]

The blade and trunion need to be aligned to the table slot. After that the axis of blade tilt needs to be aligned to be parallel to the table. This part is done with shims.

If there is burning when using the fence, the end of the fence has to be a little further away from the blade than where the wood is fed in. A few thousandth of an inch.

This! No saw will cut properly if not set up right.

My basement saw is a curb side freeby, old 8" tilt top with a minimal mitre gauge and angle iron fence that grips only on the back. It cuts just fine.

 

[Tronyadorable]

Keyword: TABLE. If you have a 1 1/2 or so HP throw away the bent tin and do this.
That's a table saw. The portable toys are saws with a table.My buddies shop is like this. It's awesome to work on.

 

[skruft]

I had a Craftsman table saw that was greatly improved by a linked belt. It stopped all vibration.

 

[Jere]

Lots of good suggestions for improvements have already been mentioned. Table top extensions and homemade fences are all over the internet. If you are looking for suggestions for your own design, google image search homemade table saw fence. There are some really accurate designs out there. Carbide tipped saw blades will help reduce the burning, I like diablo. You might want to check the bearings and make sure they are still in good shape. They are cheap to replace but can cause all kinds of issues if they are bad.

 

[Carla]

I have a cheap Craftsmen tablesaw. I picked it up a few years ago and have used it occasionally, enough to know how handy it could be. The fence it came with is a royal pain to get straight and the miter gauge feels pretty cheap. Its hard to make straight cuts and theres enough play that even going very slow the sides of your piece burn because its trying to twist as you push.

What have you guys done to omprove your lower end saws? I know I'm not the only one who cant afford an expensive setup.

I was thinking of building a straight sled and a 45deg sled. That seems like it would cure a few issues.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance!
Brian

Hi, Brian,

I was in that same spot, attempting to learn woodworking, with a 'Craftsman' table saw I was given as a freebie, some thirty-odd years ago.

It all depends, of course, on what sort of woodworking you mean to do, but in my case, I chose to learn 'adequate' woodworking skills to try restoring the little 1901 vintage cottage I bought, here in California.

I found 'the hard way' that the Sears Roebuck equipment was just too cheaply made, after having to 'tweak' the one I had for adequate accuracy in each and every cut I made with it, a major frustration.

I replaced the little Craftsman saw with an old style 'Delta' 'tilting-table' saw, which is less convenient to use, but can be set up for accurate work, and will 'hold' its adjustments. I later replaced the 'tilty' Delta with another Delta saw machine, a 1951-vintage 'Unisaw', which was very nearly as precise, and had the convenience of the 'tilting-arbour' configuration.

Later, after saving up enough $, I was finally able to get a really good table saw, a 1950-vintage Oliver '232' model, an 'industrial-grade' or 'precision' saw machine, which made a really useful difference when making up 1915-vintage style window assemblies. ('industrial grade' machines require three-phase power, meaning having to use a 'phase converter' on residential 'dryer plug' 230VAC power)

The 'moral of the story' is that there is 'no free lunch'......yes, it is possible to do good work with low-grade tools, if one is determined, but making the investment for good equipment makes the work so very much easier and more pleasant to do.

As a practical matter, replacing your Craftsman saw machine with a 1940's or '50's vintage 'Delta', or 'Walker-Turner' machine is your best option......the later model ones are not the same quality as the earlier production. Check out the 'oldwoodworkingmachines' or 'OWWM' internet site for information you can use, to invest prudently.

cheers

Carla

 

[beamrider]

I have a B&D Firestorm 10" "table" saw, that was OK for whacking up construction lumber, but completely inadequate for any sort of precise cutting. Two things I have done:

1.

Make a sled. This transformed my saw from craptacular to spectacular. Saw is now accurate to between 1 and 2 thou over 19", which to me is just incredible.

2. Invest in a good blade. I went with a Freud LU83R010, which is a 10" 50 tooth thin kerf blade. Cuts like butter.

As for a fence, I am still using the stock fence, which requires me to make 10 minutes worth of measurements and adjustments for every damn cut.

Baby steps.......

 

[cheechi]

if the blade can't be made square to the table and parallell to the miter slot, it is trash and you are done with it.

Everyone else has already said make a sled. So I won't repeat that you should make a sled.

A few simple things can improve a cheap saw assuming it's built properly and worth it.
a better belt
a good blade
a blade stabilizer can be added to the blade on one side and not mess with the alignment. even with a better belt you still can notice some improvement in reducing tearing.

good tabletop care ie sap/rust removal etc and some (of the right) wax never hurts

I'm assuming you're working with a portable, newer style table that has a good motor. If it doesn't spin at constant speed you may as well trash it. I know I'll catch some **** for this but I don't care. These little portable tables, since you don't have much surface to support things, I would use the riving knife. Even if you don't care for the blade guard I would still use the knife.

edit: Remembered the last thing I forgot; inserts. Probably the first metal part that gets damaged on most saws, and especially portables. Get yourself some stuff and make a zero clearance, maybe a few if you want, and if you're really ambitious some companies make them out of acrylic fitted to specific models. Ply works pretty good for learning how to make them but once you get more into it I would go with something harder

 

[afbrian13]

Wow thank you for all the advice! I will read through everything more carefully later and address you guys, but im running out the door now.
Its the 10 in saw with the plastic base. Its does have the sears blade in it. Model number 137.218020
I know its not great but hey....$50 " refurbished" from sears was pretty cheap!

Ill get back to yall later,
Thanks again,
Brian

 

[404]

If the blade needs cleaning it can be done with oven cleaner, the cheap smelly toxic kind.

 

[justme-]

For all suggesting upgrading fences - it's a "cheap" homeowner portable saw

Not much for upgrades out there for these things, no massive unisaw type tables will help, not much adjustment in the trunnions (if there even is a true trunnion), and no Biesemeyer upgrade.

 

[cheechi]

Yep, that's why I suggested making sure the blade is parallel to the miter gage slots not to the fence. If you are going to use the fence to make a cut, you want to check that on a per cut/per setup basis.

 

[zak77]

I picked up a craftsman table saw when I bought my house years ago cause I needed something to rip wood down with and although I am NOT a fan of craftsman this table saw has been pretty decent. It has the cast iron top and wings off the sides. I first went through it made sure everything was setup properly, and it was. The next thing I did was ditch the stock fence and got a Delta fence.
http://www.toolbarn.com/delta-36t30...delta-36-T30&gclid=CODHrcq8vsICFe_m7AodhDMAeA

If I set it to rip at 2", the piece comes out exactly 2" wide. I put a link belt on recently and am very happy with it. I really would like a better table saw but I don't use this one all that often so it gets the job done as good as this saw ever will.

 

[Jere]

For all suggesting upgrading fences - it's a "cheap" homeowner portable saw
Not much for upgrades out there for these things, no massive unisaw type tables will help, not much adjustment in the trunnions (if there even is a true trunnion), and no Biesemeyer upgrade.

A home made fence and or table top and sled, will give nearly limitless possibilities. The whole table could be scrapped with only the motor,wire and the blade reused. It can cost the price of the wood and hardware, and pallet wood, could make it nearly free. It would be a great learning project also that could be worth much more than the money saved too.

 

[gungatim]

A home made fence and or table top and sled, will give nearly limitless possibilities. The whole table could be scrapped with only the motor,wire and the blade reused. It can cost the price of the wood and hardware, and pallet wood, could make it nearly free. It would be a great learning project also that could be worth much more than the money saved too.

Not really, you could do that with a cabinet saw where the arbor and trunions are mounted to the frame. With a contractor/homeowner type saw it is mounted to the table and is required as part of the unit. Kind of like saying you can change bodies on a car. maybe a full frame car, but not a uni-body...hanging that arbor and bearings off a piece of plywood with the motor hanging off the back? I think I would just get a better saw at that point...

There are endless discussions on the limitations of a contractor saw/vs. cabinet saw on the wood forums. the items suggested by most on this thread are really all you'r gonna be able to do with that style saw.

 

[Jere]

Not really, you could do that with a cabinet saw where the arbor and trunions are mounted to the frame. With a contractor/homeowner type saw it is mounted to the table and is required as part of the unit. Kind of like saying you can change bodies on a car. maybe a full frame car, but not a uni-body...hanging that arbor and bearings off a piece of plywood with the motor hanging off the back? I think I would just get a better saw at that point...

There are endless discussions on the limitations of a contractor saw/vs. cabinet saw on the wood forums. the items suggested by most on this thread are really all you'r gonna be able to do with that style saw.

Oh I see so the motor housing is cast in the tabletop... Yeah that is going to make it harder. Note to self: never buy craftsman products again

 

[Fugio]

Besides the blade, no part is more important than the fence. Get a GOOD one. A good fence can make a bad saw good. A bad fence can make a good saw just awful.

 

[afbrian13]

Alright, so after reading everything I know I have a cheap saw thats not going to make any museum cabinets, and to keep an eye out for an old but high quality saw for a good price.

In the mean time, make sure everything is aligned right. Buy a high quality blade, maybe an 8 instead of the 10in. Look into a good fence, one that I can use on a nicer saw when I get one. I think I'm going to make a stand that line up with my low workbench so I have an outfeed table of sorts. I'm still looking at building a sled. Instead of having the rails in the slots, I'll have them on the outside edges of the table. The rail slots have an odd shape meant to hold the craftsmen miter in them, and a rail wouldn't sit/slide right in them anyway. Maybe I could use two miter gauge slides as a base for a sled, but they aren't exactly presise.

I realize I'm not going to get amazing results, but I know I can get accurate enough for shelves, garage cabinets, and for sure better than a freehand circular saw.

Thanks again for the ideas and information.
Brian

 

[rick carpenter]

These two youtubes look pretty good...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLSw6mhcLSL-N469GfhXetC4ViYybituJA&v=hfFpYti5GrY

 

[justme-]

Oh I see so the motor housing is cast in the tabletop... Yeah that is going to make it harder. Note to self: never buy craftsman products again

nothing to do with the craftsman brand, it's the design of all of this style portable table saws. Remember, Craftsman (sears) has never been a manufacturer - they simply rebrand other company's products and market them.

 

[Kev442]

For all suggesting upgrading fences - it's a "cheap" homeowner portable saw

Not much for upgrades out there for these things, no massive unisaw type tables will help, not much adjustment in the trunnions (if there even is a true trunnion), and no Biesemeyer upgrade.

Finally, someone who realizes that although you can put lipstick on it, it's still a pig.
I once measured the play in the shaft of a direct drive motor at 3/16"!
The blade must wave like a flag cutting plywood.