How to remotely turn compressor on and off

[bhays]

My compressor (220v) is remotely located in a shed and I would like to be able to turn it on and off from inside the garage. When l looked into this a few years back X10 was problematic because there was no feedback as to whether the outlet/module had actually turned on or off. All of the wiring to the shed is underground and running another wire to be able to have a pilot lamp would be an extreme project.

Any ideas?

 

[Mustang51js]

How are the wires ran in the shed, do you have a sub panel in the shed or straight from the panel to shed.

 

[wingfootedgodhead]

Can you get a wireless LAN signal out to the shed ?

X10 is fairly range limited.

If so, wireless relay in the shed controlling the energizing power source to a 240V DPST electro mechanical relay

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Electro-Mechanical_Relays/Power_Relays,_Open-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2A-12D

 

[bhays]

I actually do have a very strong wireless LAN signal at the shed. Is there a way to do the wireless relay with just a switch and pilot lamp type arrangement or would it have to be commanded by a computer?

 

[volleyball]

You can now buy wireless 110v outlets that run off of a fob. You could use it to make/break one of the 220v legs.They are about $20

 

[wingfootedgodhead]

Most likely looking at either a computer or a iPhone to control. Perhaps could be done with a manual switch that in turns communicates with your network - more difficult to implement

http://www.amazon.com/Global-Cache-WF2CC-Contact-Closure/dp/B003BFX1Q6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1393339797&sr=1-1&keywords=WF2CC

 

[wingfootedgodhead]

You can now buy wireless 110v outlets that run off of a fob. You could use it to make/break one of the 220v legs.They are about $20

Great cheap idea but has two problems that could be overcome

A. Breaking one leg leaves a hot wire on the other leg - safety problem
B. Doubtful that these 110V outlet controls are rated to 30 amps (compressor) - safety problem

Workaround - have the 110V outlet control a 12 VDC power source (like a laptop computer power brick), which in turn controls the energizing coil on a 40 amp rated DPST relay interrupting the 240V.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Electro-Mechanical_Relays/Power_Relays,_Open-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2A-12D

 

[sberry]

This comes up all the time but turn off the power to the shed or put a ball valve on the entrance of your shop, no air use, no comp turn on, easy as that, I would turn it on and leave it alone,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, unless there was a problem.

 

[volleyball]

Most 220v stuff is turned off by breaking one leg. Only a safety if you are working on the wiring.
There are ac relays.
I always shut off the compressor tank valve as you never know when you may get a hose left connected will blow.

 

[bhays]

Most likely looking at either a computer or a iPhone to control. Perhaps could be done with a manual switch that in turns communicates with your network - more difficult to implement



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BFX1Q6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Iphone control would be fine. What hardware would you suggest for that?

 

[bhays]

Turning off the power to the shed is problematic because I also have other things out there. What happens is I will always forget to turn on the power then go out there and I have no lights. I also have some other airlines in the shed where I have my welding set up so just turning off the airline where it enters the garage isn't really a good option because I could spring a leak or have a problem actually in the shed.


However, that does raise a good point. If I could just put a 12 V valve at the tank of the compressor, I wouldn't need to worry about turning the power on or off to the compressor. Plus, I could verify that the valve had turned off by simply opening an airline in the garage and seeing if I lose pressure quickly.

Is anyone aware of an inexpensive means of wirelessly activating a 12 V valve via an iPhone or simply a pushbutton?

 

[wingfootedgodhead]

Iphone control would be fine. What hardware would you suggest for that?

The app I use is eKeypad interfaced to a Elk M1 panel - which has a myriad of other uses. See the Aple app store for eKeypad.

 

[wingfootedgodhead]

Is anyone aware of an inexpensive means of wirelessly activating a 12 V valve via an iPhone or simply a pushbutton?

Remotely activated 12V valves:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/electric-ball-valve

Dont know if I would want to trust the cheaper ones

Seems easier just to turn off the power to the compressor

 

[bhays]

I was thinking of a solenoid type valve. Far less expensive.

 

[daveroy]

I was thinking of a solenoid type valve. Far less expensive.

Get a water control valve from an old washing machine /# Flamesuite on#/

 

[Techie1961]

Most 220v stuff is turned off by breaking one leg

I can't think of anything 220V that shuts off one leg and still meets code. Got any examples?

 

[sberry]

Could use 120V. But again might considering a rework to the plumbing so turn on air as needed at the shed but continuously supply the building.

Here is why I harp on simple a bit. I been at this a while in my own shop and more to the point I lost count. Seems I have seen a hose blow off a barb in use while ill maintained but have never seen the mystery hose blow while unattended and ruin something. I seen hosed damaged but never one blow up in the middle of the night. I have a couple I turned the valve off to lately and they are pitiful old outside but with good service I wouldn't go out of my way to turn the air off unless I did it to avoid fueling a fire.

I hear the hose worry frequently but just never seen it happen. Never heard even on a forum of an actual case?

 

[12ozd]

Clapper?

 

[teamextreme]

I can't think of anything 220V that shuts off one leg and still meets code. Got any examples?

The only 220v equipment I've ever seen that was controlled by switching only one leg were 220v baseboard heaters. And I've seen far more of those switched with 2pole t-stats than with 1pole, but I have seen some. In fact, last fall I was looking at 1pole t-stats that even said right on the packaging they are good for 120 or 240v heaters.

Edit: The instance that comes to mind was a 1970's build condo complex, so it may not be up to code currently, which was your question, I'd have to research that one.

 

[Norcal]

I can't think of anything 220V that shuts off one leg and still meets code. Got any examples?

If you want to split hairs 220V consists of a hot (brown conductor) & a neutral (blue conductor) & is 50 Hertz, but it is quite code compliant to switch one leg of a 240 volt circuit,& is quite common in single phase HVAC equipment where they use a single pole contactor, the disconnecting means must break all legs though .

 

[Rookie2]

you could add a 24v motor starter(contactor) and a remote control (remote car starter) available on ebay etc.

 

[bsaint]

I would just move the compressor. To do it correctly, you need to run control wires to your garage. Wireless, to me at least, is too risky.

 

[compressornew]

Use power switch or main power socket wires in compressor machine.If this machine working properly then attached main condenser wires to on/off switch.

 

[dogdog]

this might be an idea for you....

get this 120v coil relay instead with DPST
oops this one
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2A-120A

and get this consumer wireless switch to drive that 120v coil relay to turn the 220v on / off with your iphone/ipad/droid?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA20T14J1650
package nicely in a electrical box for your compressor ?

as a light switch that works pretty well if you have strong wireless signal., have not tried personally to drive a relay.... that way the switch can be mounted next to your compressor . package into your favorite approved electrical enclosure. you can stills switch on / off manually if you forgot your phone. or remotely via your iphone/android, but no pc browser/apps. The catch is you have to have internet connection for these switch to work remotely. still keep all your plumbing as is. you must have neutral wire, just tap on of the legs for 110 with neutral to power the switch. it draws miliAmps so shouldn't bother any operations of your compressor.

 

[Mustang51js]

If you had a dedicated 220 coming from the panel to the shed then you could just add a switch next to the panel instead of messing around with the wireless. Does the power come straight from the shed or do you have a sub panel in the shed.

 

[MixManSC]

Relay / Contactor right next to the compressor. I use one with a 120v coil and its double pole. The cost to use a double pole one is negligible and just gives that extra bit of security that there is no hot power to the compressor period when it is off. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KGSJ74/?tag=atomicindus08-20 - that's like the one I installed and I just tied the coil into the lights in the shop. I know if the lights are off the compressor is off.

You can get a contactor with different coils, 120vac, 24vac, 12vdc, 24vdc, 48vdc, etc and with different load ratings on the contacts. If you know you always turn the light off out there (or if you have anything hard wired with a remote switch to the house - on my building I did add an extra 12/4 wire when I ran the power so I could cut the outside lights on/off from the house) you could simply power the coil from that. Or you can come up with some sort of wireless remote that will reliably work from the house AND one that provides feedback (status of on or off). If something that provides feedback then yeah probably something with an Android or iPhone app, BUT with anything like that it will need an internet connection (wifi or wired) at the building.

If you are crafty, you could get a powerline Ethernet adapter for the house end and connect it to your network and rig it to ONE 120v leg of the 240v power to the building. Then every outlet in the building on that power leg will have the ability to plug in a powerline Ethernet adapter. This is how I got internet to my building. Essentially at the house end, just after the breaker for the big line to the building, I tied a single 120v outlet into one leg and plugged the powerline Ethernet adapter into that and ran a cat5 cable from that to the router. I can plug another powerline Ethernet adapter into roughly every other outlet in the building but I just use one and plug that into another wireless router in the building.

 

[volleyball]

Here is why I harp on simple a bit. I been at this a while in my own shop and more to the point I lost count. Seems I have seen a hose blow off a barb in use while ill maintained but have never seen the mystery hose blow while unattended and ruin something. I seen hosed damaged but never one blow up in the middle of the night. I have a couple I turned the valve off to lately and they are pitiful old outside but with good service I wouldn't go out of my way to turn the air off unless I did it to avoid fueling a fire.

I hear the hose worry frequently but just never seen it happen. Never heard even on a forum of an actual case?

I worked in a shop that use to be a body shop and they use a air hose to connect to the iron. Came in Monday to a very hot compressor and no air pressure. The hose blew out and it was not subject to connect/disconnect.

At home I have hoses older than me that can blow at any time so they are only connected when I am there. They have blown out when I was in another area. Because of their age, I do discount the blowing but you wanted examples.

 

[sberry]

That is good first hand experience. Some of the risk where its out of sight could be reduced by quality hose to manifold connection. I can tell this though,,, the risk to reward here is very low. As you can see there is no one solution, not an easy one, not a common one and it would likely be called for in a code if it was substantive.

There is a lot of water damage in the world and very little built in protection.

I am not sure of the exact numbers but its probably in less than 25 other things in your property likely to hurt you or cause damage and most of it is simply protected by good condition and not ignore problems. relying on one piece of hose in good condition is pretty reliable. Even as many washing machine hoses that are purported to break I wouldn't stand there and hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

You can complicate it, buy preventive equipment, bastardize a piece of equipment all to protect against a poor plumbing installation that would likely be simple for low cost and if this is a worry they its needed anyway, fix that and then see if you feel the burning need to mess with it further

 

[sberry]

At home I have hoses older than me that can blow at any time so they are only connected when I am there. They have blown out when I was in another area. Because of their age, I do discount the blowing but you wanted examples

Kind of furthers my point, replace a couple hoses and you wont need additional gadgets wired to a common compressor. .

 

[Strouty]

Unless the compressor is actually turned off (power not air) you do run a risk of having it run constantly and at the very least self destruct, or worse start a fire. So far, the safest way would be to use a dedicated circuit (this assumes you have power going from garage to compressor) and just put a disconnect on it. That is what I am doing.

 

[sberry]

You could use a hi low Murphy on it. Add a temp switch and low oil level, pump pressure too and a Hobbs to track the hours.

We don't even know the model of the compressor here, does it have contactor etc.

 

[sberry]

Take a clear weed whacker line and run it overhead and pull a switch on/off. A piece of fishing line buried shallow in a garden hose. A timer on it would also reduce a lot of risk, shut it off the hours you know you wont be there.

 

[Techie1961]

If you want to split hairs 220V consists of a hot (brown conductor) & a neutral (blue conductor) & is 50 Hertz, but it is quite code compliant to switch one leg of a 240 volt circuit,& is quite common in single phase HVAC equipment where they use a single pole contactor, the disconnecting means must break all legs though .

What part of the world are you in? You mention 50hz so I am thinking somewhere in Europe or??? In North America, 220V single phase is 2 live 110V lines and a ground. Neutral is not part of it.

 

[sberry]

It is 240V system in the US

 

[bhays]

Since the shed is not climate controlled the hoses out there are subjected to temperature extremes and tend to fail the last time I had a problem it was due to a hose failing inside the shed. I have decided to turn the air on and off where it exits the tank so I don't have to wait as long to have air in the garage. I have all of the parts I need ordered and hope to put it together this weekend.

 

[rdsk8ter]

just get a contactor rated at the amps you need IE i have a 30 ampr 240volt relay on my compressor. Got to home depot and buy one of those smart phone lamp switch units and wire a cord to the contactor as the load on the contactor is very low it wont hurt the device. Hope that helps

 

[600SL]

TooManyProjects has proposed just the solution I need for this.

I want to be able to turn all lights off in the garage and the compressor with either of two switches, located at either door to the building. He proposed an Insteon switch at each door and the high current 240V relay for the compressor.

See this post for the compressor relay and previous posts in the thread got the Insteon switch.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3761488&postcount=48.

John

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You can now buy wireless 110v outlets that run off of a fob. You could use it to make/break one of the 220v legs.They are about $20

Any form of disconnect has to break both legs of a 240 circuit... As previously stated, use the proper contactor with the control switch in the shop.

Tommy

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What part of the world are you in? You mention 50hz so I am thinking somewhere in Europe or??? In North America, 220V single phase is 2 live 110V lines and a ground. Neutral is not part of it.

U were the one that said 220v. There hasnt been 220v electricity in the US(with a few exceptions) for decades. The US uses 240v electricity. Norcal was simply pointing that out. Current 220v systems in the world are 50hz; which is just the reason Norcal mentioned 50hz

And you are incorrect about neutral and ground in an electrical service. yes there is a neutral in a standard 240v 3 wire single/split phase electrical service but there ISNT a ground wire in the service drop. .....smh Better study a little more......

 

[teamextreme]

220, 221, whatever it takes. While technically, 240v is correct, most people pretty much interchange 220/240 as well as 110/115/120 to mean the same things.

Wylie is correct that a ground is not part of a service entrance, but that's not what we're talking about here. Techie was pointing out that a 220v compressor circuit consists of 2hots and a ground, no neutral. Norco was using European color standards of blue and brown and referred to a neutral in his post, implying the single hot wire was at 220v (European config? IDK) which techie was questioning, rightly so.