How wide do I go?

[bruincounselor]

I'm in the planning stages for a garage on the alley of my city property. I want a place to park my pickup, a minivan/SUV, and a third stall for mostly shop work, but I wish to be able to park in it occasionally. My vision is an 18' overhead door for the vehicles, and 10' for the other door. SWMBO is concerned about losing the backyard so depth is an issue too.

I just got confirmation from the city that because I have a side street (corner lot) I have to have larger setback on that side. I have a 50' wide lot. 3' setback on one side and 15' on the side street side. My neighbor gets 44' to build.

I'm left with a max width (footprint) of 32'. Is that wide enough?

I can ask for a variance, I know someone on the board and he thinks my chances are 50%, he will vote no if he doesn't abstain. I was thinking about asking to go to 38' before I got the bad news.

Here's the trade off: If I stay with 32' I have an outside parking pad (adjacent to a sidewalk so not ideal). If I am allowed to go wider I lose that possibility.

My wheels are spinning. Any perspectives out there?

 

[kd3pc]

by the time you build, your 32' is likely <30' inside to inside.

For parking that may work, but if you want to work, with car doors open, room to easily walk around and have tools nearby...it will be tight for three. I would rather have one good size bay.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I can ask for a variance, I know someone on the board and he thinks my chances are 50%, he will vote no if he doesn't abstain. I was thinking about asking to go to 38' before I got the bad news.

You mean to say this person doesn't like you or your plan ?

 

[Voi]

SWMBO is concerned about losing the backyard so depth is an issue too.

I'm left with a max width (footprint) of 32'. Is that wide enough?

I can ask for a variance, I know someone on the board and he thinks my chances are 50%, he will vote no if he doesn't abstain. I was thinking about asking to go to 38' before I got the bad news.

Here's the trade off: If I stay with 32' I have an outside parking pad (adjacent to a sidewalk so not ideal). If I am allowed to go wider I lose that possibility.

Any perspectives out there?

32' wide could work for me if it was also 32' deep but even that would be smaller than I'd like.

Wife and I picked out our current home because it had the biggest three car we could find in what we had chosen as our price range at the time. Twelve years and two kids later we feel the house is too big and the garage is too small.

We don't have any regrets per se but wouldn't sell/move/build unless we could have a minimum 40' x 30'.

As far as the parking pad, we decided to re-do some retaining walls and make them taller. Needing fill we dug out by our garage and ended up with a parking area which has turned out to be great. Much more useful then we had envisioned.

Don't be in a hurry to spend the money unless you're sure you can get a useful area. Adding a garage can shorten the time a house sits on the market but the ROI isn't very good so don't let it get you stuck where you're at.

 

[bczygan]

You've laid out the choices available to you.

Now only you can decide what to choose.

The choices also include not doing anything, moving, ignoring the wife and remodeling part of the house to get the width you need.

Can you make it tall enough and install a storage lift to get the extra parking required?

As an aside, if it was me, I'd say screw the wife, I'm doing what I want. Kids can play at the playground up the street, and you can take them and stay with them.

Life's too short to not do what you want.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Can the parking pad have an 8' high masonry privacy wall and an 8' high wood privacy gate for access?

Read your zoning regs very carefully.

 

[bruincounselor]

You mean to say this person doesn't like you or your plan ?

He likes me fine, but he isn't a fan of three stall garages in my historic neighborhood. He is a very skilled woodworker so he understands shop space too.

Mulling the responses.

 

[NUTTSGT]

He likes me fine, but he isn't a fan of three stall garages in my historic neighborhood. He is a very skilled woodworker so he understands shop space too.

Mulling the responses.

Since it's a historic district, can you design so it looks like carriage house and not a typical garage ?

 

[bczygan]

He likes me fine, but he isn't a fan of three stall garages in my historic neighborhood. He is a very skilled woodworker so he understands shop space too.

Mulling the responses.

They had multi-stall carriage houses in the past.

 

[bczygan]

I just reread the original post.

Why do you need a door so you can occasionally park in the "Shop" space?

 

[600SL]

by the time you build, your 32' is likely <30' inside to inside.

For parking that may work, but if you want to work, with car doors open, room to easily walk around and have tools nearby...it will be tight for three. I would rather have one good size bay.

I'm 30' x 30' for my 2 garage bays which leaves me at 28' 10" wide by 28' 6" deep. I consider it to be pretty damn near perfect except I cant put anything along the side wall where the lift is. So 32' wide would be a great size for a 2 car garage with good side wall space.

 

[bruincounselor]

Some good questions:
1. I need a door for shop because projects are motorcycles, sometimes with sidecar attached. If I'm going to build I want it versatile for the next user or maybe a convertible.
2. The carriage house argument won't fly. Property isn't large enough for that to have ever been an option at proposed size. It will match character of home and neighborhood.
3. 6.5' fence allowed on property line. This is what pisses me off the most about this, no consideration for safety or sightlines for a fence, but a garage needs to be 15' away? City guy didn't even try to explain it.
4. Max coverage is 960sq Ft so I have to work within that limit. I want wide and shallow, but plan B will possibly be just under square.
5. Plan is for 10' ceiling, storage trusses 6/12, and heated floor.

I have the variance application, wife wishes to proceed too. Due in a week to make the November meeting.

 

[forAK]

Doing a 18' wide and a 10' wide door will only leave you 4' total on a 32' wide wall. That is some fancy and spendy engineering for the sheer strength of that wall. Not to mention, no side wall space for tools. I have a 36' wide and find it to be a good size for a 2 car garage with work benches and shelving.

I'd think for you to gain the most, would be to go deeper.

 

[larry_g]

My first shop was a 30 wide by 36 dp. I had a 16' door offset to one side that left a work bay behind the no door bay. I could park 2 rigs in there and have a 47 ford project in the work bay. When working hard I would leave one or both cars out of the shop for the time. The 36' depth gave room in front of the rigs for the machine shop. So yes I think 32' is wide enough and with a 32' depth you have a really nice shop in the front. I would consider that size as a 2 car shop or three car parking.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[kbs2244]

I would go with your orginal idea.
But I think an 8 foot motorcycle door would be plenty.
Just park an the street and use the middle bay for any "open door" work.

 

[bczygan]

Some good questions:
1. I need a door for shop because projects are motorcycles, sometimes with sidecar attached. If I'm going to build I want it versatile for the next user or maybe a convertible.
2. The carriage house argument won't fly. Property isn't large enough for that to have ever been an option at proposed size. It will match character of home and neighborhood.
3. 6.5' fence allowed on property line. This is what pisses me off the most about this, no consideration for safety or sightlines for a fence, but a garage needs to be 15' away? City guy didn't even try to explain it.
4. Max coverage is 960sq Ft so I have to work within that limit. I want wide and shallow, but plan B will possibly be just under square.
5. Plan is for 10' ceiling, storage trusses 6/12, and heated floor.

I have the variance application, wife wishes to proceed too. Due in a week to make the November meeting.

You are very lucky that the side yard setbacks aren't the same as the front yard ones. I designed a house for a corner lot where the allowable width of the building would have been 15'!

Prepare for the variance by having neighbors write letters approving your plan, or better yet, showing up to support it. Do all the politicking to get members of the ZBA on board. Meet with the zoning guy and get him on your side. You may be able to set up an unofficial meeting and review session prior to the actual meeting.

You need to show a hardship, and it can't be financial (Like it won't value your property as much without it). BTW, we prepared, and got a variance for the above property, that hadn't been able to be built on for 40 years.

Bill

 

[bruincounselor]

I spoke with a city planner on Friday. He suggested asking for a rezone - If I get that through I gain an extra 2.5 feet (Not worth looking at for now). I'm going to apply for the variance this week. I have to meet their 5 criteria, I won't, but I'm hopeful that my appeal to the logic of the situation has some bearing with some members of the board. Apparently a three stall garage is not a need, but a want? Hrmm. I have a neighbor two doors down with two two stall garages on the alley and one stall in front (5 stalls total).


Is anyone here an expert on zoning? What are the purported purposes of this side setback? My side lot is over 19' from the curb (4' sidewalk and 15' boulevard with trees), my house is at only 12' setback.

 

[sberry]

30 wide is tight for 2 to work on with anything along the walls.

 

[bruincounselor]

Variance application dropped off today. Hearing on the 22nd. Writing a "Dear Neighbor" letter now. Wish me lick.

Any zoning experts? City planners?

 

[larry_g]

Variance application dropped off today. Hearing on the 22nd. Writing a "Dear Neighbor" letter now. Wish me lick.

Any zoning experts? City planners?

Have someone proof your letter for spelling and punctuation. A professional looking letter goes a long way toward getting someone to read it.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Stuart in MN]

I went through a variance to get my garage built (the size was okay but it was taller than the code allowed, to match the pitch of my house roof.) I did all the things required (notify neighbors, prepare plans and photos, etc.) When I went to the appear before the board I put on a shirt and tie.

What I noticed is that nearly everyone else who was there for one variance or another was terribly unprepared - they didn't have all the forms filled out, or didn't bring all the requested information, or simply couldn't provide a good reason why they wanted the variance. Most of them looked like they had crawled out from under a rock as well. They all got rejected. I think that by the time it was my turn, I'd won half the battle by just showing up prepared and they more or less rubber stamped my variance.

So, the moral of the story is to do everything you can to present your case, it may well make the difference.

 

[bruincounselor]

Have someone proof your letter for spelling and punctuation. A professional looking letter goes a long way toward getting someone to read it.

lg
no neat sig line

That's hilarious and what I get for typing on my tablet between tricks or treats at the door. I often feel like that thing is designed to help me misspell everything. The letter will be checked over before I send it out.

Reminds me of the time I sent a registered letter to a different neighbor. He refused it. When I got it back I walked over and asked why he would refuse it? "Nothing good ever comes registered mail". The letter was about my proposed plan to fix our collapsed shared sewer line. It was several thousand dollars (each) and he wasn't engaged in the process.

 

[kbs2244]

"So, the moral of the story is to do everything you can to present your case, it may well make the difference."

You have to play the game by the rules.
And they get to make the rules.

 

[bruincounselor]

Big day tomorrow. Neighbors coming to support the request. I hand delivered letters a few weeks ago, no negative feedback. PowerPoint is ready, handouts with Ppt. and plan views of proposed and plan B options. I think I'm ready.

Shirt ironed, tie and jacket ready.

 

[KDXSR5]

Good luck man! Hope it goes well!

 

[rburke65]

I have my fingers crossed for ya. Hoping everything goes well.

 

[bruincounselor]

Approved. I got 4/4 votes (#5 abstained).

I'm thinking this will be my build thread.

 

[KDXSR5]

Excellent! Please keep us posted!

 

[Voi]

Awesome.