How wide should my underground NG line be?

[Tre900]

I came across a discounted 75k Mr. Heater at Lowes this weekend. I have it hung up but I need to get my Underground line ordered.

I want to see if I can rent a trencher and do as much as I can but I would like to know how Wide of a Yellow gas I need: PolyP or CSST.

The underground run from the meter to the Work shope is 131 feet.

Then I will need 9 Feet up the wall (interior) and 48 feet to the other end of the work shop.

24x48x9 R19 in the ceiling but I don't know what's behind the walls (how do I find out?).


Any input would b FANTASTIC.

 

[BillK]

Tre,
The best people to ask about this is your Gas Company. You will need to get a permit anyway, so they can tell you what size line you will need. Or ask the plumber who will probably have to get the permit for you. I would have to say that any other answers are just going to be good guesses unless someone does that for a living and knows the codes in your area and what the pressures are coming out of your meter, and if the meter is sized properly to even accept the additional load.

 

[James-W]

I am not a heating expert so I could be wrong on this, but I would say that a one inch yellow plastic pipe would be the right size to run. But I don't think it would pass local code to run that stuff above ground unless it were inside of a rigid pipe of some sort. Assuming that is the case, once you bury the yellow pipe you would need to transition the yellow stuff to black pipe in order to run it into the building and then up/over to the heater.

 

[CNGsaves]

You'll need to start with the TELEPHONE, and not with the trencher.

Call your local natural gas company and/or plumber and become 100% familiar with local city/state requirements for buried natural gas lines. Here in KS and OK area, minimum depth to bury yellow polyethlene plastic pipe is 18" but other states have 30" minimum. Based on your long 131 ft run, you will have to SIZE the yellow plastic pipe accordingly to ensure proper flow for NG heater. It may work with 1" IPS (ie iron pipe size - - - thick wall yellow plastic pipe) or it may need to be larger. You want to T off just past meter where gas supply has largest pipe so you'll get the best flow for that long run.

Do NOT use CSST or anything other than yellow polyethlene plastic pipe that is specifically made for natural gas/propane. The yellow polyethlene plastic pipe is what the gas company uses - - it is SAFEST and cheap solution.

On each end of yellow plastic pipe, gas company or plumber will attach a Riser that transitions the yellow plastic pipe to steel that is L shaped (ie goes from below ground to above ground). These connect with a Stabloch connector. In the trench, you're also required to have Tracer wire (again yellow in color) that is wrapped around the yellow plastic pipe so later on that gas line can be located.

On top of each riser you'll want a shutoff valve. After riser and shutoff, (ie above ground), you'll use black pipe steel through wall into garage, and ultimately on to NG heater. Near the Mr Heater, the black pipe steel will need a drip leg and shutoff. Then a flexible covered steel pipe can connect the last couple feet to heater.

Use the Garage Journal feature up on black line called SEARCH and put in "buried natural gas" as your keywords. Some other threads that have covered this same buried gas line issue are:

Natural Gas Line - - Cost To Install
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170881&highlight=buried+natural+gas

Cost To Run Natural Gas Line To Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181258&highlight=buried+natural+gas

Running A New Underground Natural Gas Line
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178009&highlight=buried+natural+gas

Anodeless Service Riser?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137458&highlight=buried+natural+gas

Run Natural Gas Line Underground
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32833&highlight=buried+natural+gas

Get quotes from plumbers to connect the risers to the yellow plastic pipe that you can do the trenching ahead of time. The yellow plastic pipe generally costs around 55 cents a foot. Plumber can then finish black pipe steel after the risers for final connections on both ends. Line will need pressure tested and leak tested (soapy water at all connections) before the line goes live.

Let us know how the plumber quote process goes and post some pics of your Mr Heater install. Good luck.

 

[RCStocker]

Most codes say it must be 18 inches deep
You can not run it in the same trench as any electrical wires.
1 inch will be to big. Most homes have 3/4" lines.
See if the gas company will run it for you. The have a machine that will put it in the gournd without diging a huge trench. It might be cheaper for them to run the yellow flex tubing.

Gas is under 5 punds pressure. Cap off the line and get a gage with air fitting for checking the gas lines. They are about $15. Put 20 pounds or less in the line and check for leaks before you use it. If you know what you are doing forget the permit.

 

[BillK]

If you know what you are doing forget the permit.

So when there is a fire or other problem and the insurance company asks "who installed this and where is the permit ?" .....................

Or worse yet if someone gets badly hurt or killed................
Is it worth saving the money for the permit ??? I dont think so

 

[CNGsaves]

Most codes say it must be 18 inches deep
You can not run it in the same trench as any electrical wires.
1 inch will be too big. Most homes have 3/4" lines.
See if the gas company will run it for you. The have a machine that will put it in the gournd without diging a huge trench. It might be cheaper for them to run the yellow flex tubing.

Gas is under 5 punds pressure. Cap off the line and get a gage with air fitting for checking the gas lines. They are about $15. Put 20 pounds or less in the line and check for leaks before you use it. If you know what you are doing forget the permit.

Depth of buried yellow plastic pipe for NG is MINIMUM of 18 inches in some states and 30 inches in others. Some installs are likely 4 or 5 feet deep so there won't be any chance of someone digging it up by mistake (ie if there is a garden in path / farmground / etc)!!

Too early to know what SIZE that long 131 ft buried yellow plastic pipe should be . . . it actually might need to be 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" if there are large demands on NG from the house (ie starve NG from going to garage), or because there are OTHER demands of NG in the garage besides the 75K Btu heater. Gas company / plumber in your area will be best qualified to determine proper sizing based on Btu demands and pressure. I'm installing just 25 ft of yellow plastic pipe between house and garage and sized it at 1" which will cover any garage needs. The OP will only want to bury that 131 ft once . . . and DO IT RIGHT !!

Typical pressure for NG is 7" to 8" water column (ie approx 1/2 psi) so that long 131 ft run will need to be healthy sized pipe.

 

[Tre900]

Thx for info guys. Always helpful. I will update with quotes i get

 

[Tre900]

http://www.endot.com/OpenFile.aspx?path=5f55a_0.pdf&Type=1&pid=42

Find a sizing chart on the Endot site - for future ref.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

First become pals with your gas company, I contacted mine, and they offered to make the line up for me after I had dug the trench. I was going to run 3/4 on a 141 foot run, but for 30 more I got a 1 inch gas line. My job was to install and backfill the line, then the gas company hooked it up to the meter on my house, the shop end is all up to me. The line came with a rise on each end, a ball valve on each end and a isolated union on the shop side. Cost me $285.

 

[CNGsaves]

Wow out there in North Dakota . . . . the gas company treats you right!!!

Here in metro city in KS, I had quotes from $700 to $1,100 (big shop plumbers) for my piddly 25 ft buried yellow plastic polyethlene pipe to detached garage. Finally found plumber who'd work with me on smaller job so I'll do most of work and he'll make all connections/pressure testing. I'll have around $200 supplies plus the plumber's bill while he's doing other stuff on the house.

OP let us know what all quotes you got and any pics of your particular setup. Good luck!