how would you GFI a single phase 60 amp 120 volt generator?

[sdowney717]

Could you use a spa gfci that has a 2 pole gfci breaker?
I was wondering if you could put the hot and neutral on the breaker lugs and leave off connecting the neutral pigtail?

I think if you had only one of the hots powered and the neutral breakers white pigtail hooked to the neutral it would turn off the power gfci breaker?


http://www.homedepot.com/buy/electr...ad-centers/ge/60-amp-gfi-spa-panel-70480.html

http://www.midwestelectric.com/marketing/literature/MEPF-SPA04.pdf

another discussion showing box wiring
http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/different-styles-pushmatic-breakers-bolt-spacing-location-87474/

 

[Aceman]

I don't know why you want a GFI on this, but you'd wire it like normal except there wouldn't be a "hot" wire on one pole of the breaker.

 

[sdowney717]

I see very few gfi 60 amp breakers on the internet for two pole.
do you mean one side of breaker get hot wire and other side gets neutral wire and what about the curly neutral pigtail coming from breaker.?
do they exist for one pole?
None at all in the stores.

 

[Aceman]

I've never tried to buy a 60 amp GFCI breaker, so I couldn't tell you if they exist or not.

To make myself clear, one hot wire would go through the breaker like normal. The curly neutral pigtail would attach to the neutral buss and your neutral would land on the neutral lug on the breaker. Then that'll leave one pole of the breaker with no wires on it at all. Make sense?

 

[sdowney717]

yes, so the fact that one pole of the breaker is not connected would be ok. And the gfci would not trip.

I had been thinking though it might trip since the breaker would not sense the expected 240 voltage across the two lugs seeing it is designed for 2 phase power.

the reason I was wondering about gfi on a generator has to do with grounding, also safety. if the output was gfi, then the ground could float without the neutral wire connected to generator frame. if the neutral and ground are not connected, does the neutral have 60 volts and the hot 60 volts to ground? and of course 120 volts hot to neutral.
I have an inverter which has neutral 60, hot 60 volts and the neutral and ground are not connected.
that inverter works fine with a new gfci outlet.

 

[sdowney717]

perhaps though a floating neutral is no good for gfci may not trip??
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?54949-Grounding-Honda-Generators-amp-GFCIs

A United States Department of the Interior study drew similar conclusions: simply using a GFCI on a Floating Neutral generator will not ensure a safe system. A GFCI will only operate reliably if one side of the generator winding is grounded to the generator frame because otherwise fault current has no path back to the winding to complete the circuit. Only when Neutral is bonded to ground, will current go to ground to complete the circuit when there is a current leak. In other words, a complete circuit is required to create an imbalance and cause the GFCI to trip. A combination of grounding the generator winding (bonding the Neutral) and adding a GFCI is necessary. For this reason OSHA requires both on all generators used on jobsites. When these requirements are satisfied OSHA permits the generator frame to serve as ground, and a ground rod does not have to be used, as long as the generator can be completely isolated from earth ground. However, absent a Neutral ground bond, a ground rod, even though it provides no protection for personnel and can even create a hazardous situation, should be used with Floating Neutral generators because it is the only means of establishing a ground fault circuit for electricity to travel back to its source – creating the imbalance required to trip a GFCI device.

 

[Alchymist]

In a correctly installed transfer switch where the generator neutral is NOT bonded to the frame, the ground is established by the 4th wire between the genset and the main panel. The neutral/ground bond is at the main panel, and the neutral is not switched in the transfer switch.

With a genset where the neutral is bonded to ground, a transfer switch that switches the neutral as well as the hot lines is required.

In both cases, a ground electrode at the genset connected to the frame is best. The proper installation will have the neutral bonded to the ground at only one location regardless of transfer switch position. This is not referring to jobsite portable gensets.

 

[sdowney717]

thinking about the generator bonding issue makes me wonder if the inverter gfci breaker works like I thought it did.

what is a way to test the gfci tripping on the inverter? the test button works but is the power really gfci protected?

 

[sdowney717]

In a correctly installed transfer switch where the generator neutral is NOT bonded to the frame, the ground is established by the 4th wire between the genset and the main panel. The neutral/ground bond is at the main panel, and the neutral is not switched in the transfer switch.

I have a generac 6500 watt generator and a 8000 watt electric start generator.
I wonder if the neutral is bonded at the genrator. The generac is the kind that slows down and throttles up when power is demanded.
The other is your typical generator you would find at lowes.
those gens have both 120 and 240 volts. I do have a transfer switch that is in the main panel which switches the hots for the house, would the generator that I would hook to the house need to have an unbonded neutral?

The onan generator at the boat is 6500 watt 120 volt which is the one I thought of putting on a gfci. currently only the plug receptacles are gfci 20 amp all on the one gfci outlet.

 

[Alchymist]

thinking about the generator bonding issue makes me wonder if the inverter gfci breaker works like I thought it did.

what is a way to test the gfci tripping on the inverter? the test button works but is the power really gfci protected?

One of these:

 

[sdowney717]

would it be worth the trouble of getting a 60 amp GFCI spa load center and putting it on the output of the onan 6500 single phase 120 volt boat generator? Would it function as gfci protected or not? It currently has a 60 amp GE breaker for over current protection.

 

[sdowney717]

One of these:

that looks pricey what about another cheaper test. How about a load resistor circuit from hot to ground

 

[mrb]

why in the world do you want a single gfci on the output from a generator? Whats downstream from this proposed gfci? seems to me like its going to trip all the time.

 

[sdowney717]

Well it might not be worth doing.
With me, If I get a chance at a good price on something, I then start thinking of how I could use it.
So, I am exploring the idea here to get some feedback.