How would you handle this?

[clkimmel]

I am in the process of having my garage built (sorry everyone, I haven't yet started my build thread, but I am taking plenty of pictures) and my builder has just told us we owe him $1600 over what is in the contract.
When we started, the garage placement was supposed to be further back in the lot, but we have an easement for a fire lane in the back of the lot so the garage was move up closer to the house. The lot has more slope where the garage is now so the builder had to use an extra 2 courses of block for the foundation. Everything has been going pretty well up to now, and the garage is fully framed, wrapped and the man door is installed. The builder came to the house on thursday and told my wife the next payment as per the contract was due because the the framing was complete, but we also owed the extra $1600 for the extra block, sand and the survey he had done. I told my wife on the phone that I didn't think we had to pay that and she only paid him the amount on the contract.
The contract has a statement about if the plot lines are unsure, the homeowner would order a survey. I know where my plot lines are and he said he wanted the survey to make sure the garage was lined up with the house, so he ordered the survey. When my wife pointed this out to him, he said he may have to eat the survey cost, but he wouldn't eat the cost of the block and he wont continue work on the garage until he gets the payment.
My problem is, he never said anything to me about the extra block costing more and, now that it's done, I have a figure shoved under my nose and it's like pay or I won't finish the job.
I haven't talked to him, he couldn't (wouldn't?) wait for me to come home last thursday and we went out of town friday morning. They did not work on the garage on Friday, so I am hoping to meet with him tomorrow to discuss.
What would you guys do in this situation?
Sorry for such a long post.

 

[Gary S]

Definitely talk it over with him, but to me, it looks like you changed the position of the garage after the deal was made. I believe that allows him to change the price if more cost is involved to complete it.

 

[ratdoggy]

Was the initial estimate based on the new location (more block and sand) or the old location (less block and sand)? If it was basically a change after your agreement I'd (meaning me) would pay it. I would consider that kind of a mid stream change like adding outlets or chenging the trusses to storage trusses.

 

[toolchanger777]

I would defiantly point that out to him that he order these things without telling you or discussing it with you. There really isnt anyway around it, if he did do a good job (up to your expectations or exceed them (or to be determined when its done)) than i would have him eat the costs (since he said he already would) and just have him show you the receipt(make sure he isn't ripping you off) and pay that amount for the sand, blocks, etc.

 

[thrifty bill]

Extra block is extra cost that you should pay. The survey is on the builder.

He probably should have gotten you to sign a change order, but a change was required that was not part of the initial deal. Doesn't sound like the survey was required, so that would be on him.

 

[wouldworker]

Extra block is extra cost that you should pay. The survey is on the builder.

He probably should have gotten you to sign a change order, but a change was required that was not part of the initial deal. Doesn't sound like the survey was required, so that would be on him.

Agreed.

 

[clkimmel]

The location change was forced, we were not allowed to build in the location he bid on.
He told my wife he knew it was going to cost more when the location was changed, but he was too busy to let us know. I know he wanted this job and I think he was afraid I would have backed out had he told me it was going to cost that much more. I think most of my frustration comes from the fact that he is not talking to me before he does things and now he is coming to me demanding more money like I'm an open checkbook.
I am not sure if an extra two rows of block on a 24X32 garage should be the $1100 he says it is. I am already paying for most of the foundation, I cant see the extra block costing that much. Is he just trying to make up for under bidding?

 

[wssix99]

What does your contract say about changes? Does he have to notify you of changes before additional costs are incurred? If not, you will have to pay for the expense. This is a very common thing with any construction and you should always plan a contingency budget for these kinds of things and other "unforseen conditions" Unforseen conditions or design issues are almost always on the owner.


If you want to avoid these surprises in the future, I'd suggest amending your contract with your builder to say that additional fees will only be paid for expenses approved by the owner before work progresses and expenses are incurred. However - watch out! If you do this, then the contractor may not be responsible for staying on schedule if these things slow the project down.

 

[gloveman132]

You should pay him. Its not his fault the garage had to be moved and required more block.

You should be reasonable. IMO

 

[e-tek]

Pay him. Screw these guys at your PERIL! They'll lein your home and drag you through small claims. NO FUN!!!

In this case, extra material and work was done - so you're just complaining that he "sprang" the new price on you.

 

[xcgates]

I have no idea to common practice, but I would ask to see reciepts, then pay up. I might not be happy that the contractor did not make me aware of the increase when he knew about it, but I think it is reasonable to ask for the cost of additional resources.

 

[UncleJoe]

It does not sound like this guy is trying to screw you. He had additional expense because a change of location and that is not his fault. I would pay it and move on.

 

[treasureseeker]

How does slope of the land have to do with how high the foundation is? Did he raise the grade to elimmante water problrems . Why did he go with block vs poured.

 

[nehog]

The location change was forced, we were not allowed to build in the location he bid on.

That wasn't his fault, so there is no way he should bear any financial responsibility for the change.

He told my wife he knew it was going to cost more when the location was changed, but he was too busy to let us know.

As someone said before, you both should have done an amendment to the contract to cover the costs. His being 'too busy' doesn't cut it, your expecting more than was agreed upon also doesn't work.

I know he wanted this job and I think he was afraid I would have backed out had he told me it was going to cost that much more. I think most of my frustration comes from the fact that he is not talking to me before he does things and now he is coming to me demanding more money like I'm an open checkbook.
I am not sure if an extra two rows of block on a 24X32 garage should be the $1100 he says it is. I am already paying for most of the foundation, I cant see the extra block costing that much. Is he just trying to make up for under bidding?

Probably... Ask him for a detailed breakdown for that money... See if he can justify it. How many blocks? How much per block? How much labor? add them together and see what the total is.

 

[6768rogues]

Since you have a written contract and he did not ask you to sign a change order, you only owe him the contract sum. It is his fault that his paperwork is deficient.
That said, if you are confident that extra work and materials were used, you can be reasonable and settle with him. Keeping it out of court and keeping the job moving have some value. Ask for proof of what the extra work cost, with labor and material broken out. Then offer to pay him half and see what his reaction is.

 

[tcianci]

As a contractor, I say pay the man. Demanding to see his costs is a little arrogant since he probably didn't need to show you his costs to secure the original contract with you. While it's common to assume that the upcharge would consist of materials and labor, the costs of the materials involved is pretty cut & dry but the labor upcharge actually has more factored into it than just site time. Was his schedule for use of his (and his guys)labor negatively impacted because the change meant that he couldn't allocate manpower to other projects because he was bogged down on your job? Did he have to spend time cancelling or otherwise re scheduling material deliveries or did he have to figure out how to compensate a framing crew for the time they couldn't be on your job?
There's a lot more work to be done on your project and you want the contractor thinking and acting on your behalf. What he is asking for is due him and you need to make it clear that further changes should handled in a fashion that is acceptable to both of you. Getting off to a bad start is counter productive and will ultimately deteriorate the whole process.

 

[ETravis]

Every contractor knows that they should never do work without a change order. He knows he made a mistake and that you don't have to pay him. The thing is, he also knows that if you don't pay he will stop working and it will cost you way more than $1100 to either replace him or take him to court. So he's got you by the short and curlys.

Obviously the extra work was performed. Was it really worth $1100? Maybe. Maybe not. If he has been doing good work so far and you want your garage finished, I would tell him you don't appreciate him springing these changes on you after they are completed and then try to negotiate the price down. Tell him next time you MUST have a change order BEFORE he performs the work or else he won't be getting a check.

 

[IDASHO]

This thread has you on track.

Id pay the guy and keep him from being upset. More work+ materials = more $$$

Plus, you do NOT want an upset builder building you a garage.

Pay him. Screw these guys at your PERIL! They'll lein your home and drag you through small claims. NO FUN!!!

Speaking from experience are we?

 

[clkimmel]

As a contractor, I say pay the man. Demanding to see his costs is a little arrogant since he probably didn't need to show you his costs to secure the original contract with you. .

But it was my choice to accept his bid, If I didn't like his price I could find someone else. I have no choice on the extra cost. I understand he has costs that were not in his original bid, I think I should have been consulted since I have to pay for it.

I will talk with him and I'm sure we will work something out that we can both live with.

 

[srmofo]

Call other people and find out what the going rate for installing block is per block in your area.

Ask for a detailed invoice for the additional work.

Compare the 2 and come to an agreement.

Dont make any additional changes to the garage.

Make sure he knows to consult with you before any other additional charges are just added on.

 

[rvr6000]

I'd have to agree that you should pay the contractor. But while you're talking to him just simply ask him to give you a call first if anything else unexpected pops up during the rest of the build.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Extra block is extra cost that you should pay. The survey is on the builder.

He probably should have gotten you to sign a change order, but a change was required that was not part of the initial deal. Doesn't sound like the survey was required, so that would be on him.

This.

 

[Torque1st]

I would pay for the block and the survey. The local governing body probably did not give him a choice on the survey. A survey is far cheaper than having to tear the structure down because it is in the easement or some other easement.

The contract has a statement about if the plot lines are unsure, the homeowner would order a survey. I know where my plot lines are and he said he wanted the survey to make sure the garage was lined up with the house, so he ordered the survey.

You may have known where the plot lines are but you obviously did not know about the easement. A survey will show if there are still other easements etc that could bite you. The survey cost is your responsibility.

Just ask him to call you on any other changes needed. Get an agreement in writing but be aware that delay costs money. It sounds like you really knew the change was going to cost more. Expecting the builder to eat the cost of the materials and labor is not at all reasonable. Changes are ALWAYS expensive. They add time and cost to the project.


PAY the man.

BTW, if the crew was not able to work on Friday they may be pissed. Never piss off the workmen building something for you. You may need to pony up for some beer and BBQ also.

 

[kmacht]

I think that everyone agrees that you should pay him for the additional materials but I don't think you ever told us how much block you are talking about. Is it one row 24' or multiple rows 40' long? The definition and size of garages on here vary widely. If it was an extra 20 to 30 blocks then I would say $1100 is way out of line. If it was more around 400 to 500 blocks then maybe. Was there any additional work needed due to the site location? Did he have to do any extra excavation? If I were you I would ask for a breakdown of that $1100. He doesn't have to show you recipts but he should at least show you how much is material, labor, etc. If it sounds reasonable, pay it. If it doesn't then talk (don't lecture) to him about it.

Keith

 

[Coolabah]

But it was my choice to accept his bid, If I didn't like his price I could find someone else. I have no choice on the extra cost. I understand he has costs that were not in his original bid, I think I should have been consulted since I have to pay for it.

I will talk with him and I'm sure we will work something out that we can both live with.

IMHO, when you form a relationship with a builder it is "give and take"...be aware that the builder did not have to accept *you* as a customer too ! It is amazing to me the number of people that I deal with that have the attitude that , if they did not accept my quote (note: I am not a builder, different industry but you get my drift) , I would starve as they are the only customer I have for the year....I have refused many jobs over the years (after quoting, then being dicked around on terms...seriously if I wanted high maintenance I would get a new trophy wife LOL... ) I am not sure if you have built anything before, but as others have said beforehand in this post the changes were made *after* the original deal , the increased expenses for the builder in no way equal eg bricks x 144 + 3 bags of mortar....I do hope you do not expect to be charged that amount ! I would pay him , no way would I ask for receipts ( WTF ???) but agree- you need to be on site regularly ( = while he is there) and let him know you would like to be informed of any variations as they occur, just so you can discuss the options .

 

[Rockerbox1]

2 rows of block, I come up with what 84 block per course? so at $5 per block (block, plus morter, plus labor) so I come up with $840. add in the extra fill, and most likely extra labor to excavate deeper, I honestly don't see where he's screwing ya.

Yeah it ***** to have to pay more than you budgeted, and it ***** he didn't communicate it with you up front, but the price itself doesn't sound too far outta line to me

 

[Boyd]

Definitely talk it over with him, but to me, it looks like you changed the position of the garage after the deal was made. I believe that allows him to change the price if more cost is involved to complete it.

Yep.

 

[mobetta]

pay the man and request change orders in the future if needed.

 

[Oldtymeflyr]

From what I can see you needed both the survey and the block.

You may know where your property lines are but when it comes to building officials and avoiding problems in the future, its better to have a survey. If there are uncertainties in the build, the owner usually pays. I say you pay for it.

On the block and fill, from what I can see you owe something because it appears to have been necessary to do the work that you wanted done. I don't know the cost of the work, but would talk with the builder about it and get an idea of how he came up with his cost. This is good for two reasons, communication is important and he knows that he is going to have to justify any other additional costs as well.

I would not get into an adversarial situation over this issue, to me you clearly owe him for additional work. He should have talked to you about the extra costs on the relocation, and if he had, you really had no choice it appears but to say yes anyway.

Its just part of the fun of building. Good luck in the future.

 

[Hmrhead]

Builder should have presented you with a change order. You said know where your plot lines are but sounds like you were not aware of the fire easement. Sounds like survey was needed, again builder should have had you order one as it was stated in the contract as such. With out it you may have been required to tear building down when found to be in easement violation. Costs for materials and services vary but here is a list to things to consider.

Survey $400-$600, needed one, I would expect that you or the builder would have paid about the same for this.
2 full courses of block= 168 block, here block is $0.99/block
extra labor for block=$168.00 residential masons around here about $1/block
6 extra bags of mortar= $47.52 plus tax, @$7.92/sx, 30 block per sx
extra 1/2 yard mason sand for extra block. Appox. extra $25.00
40+ yards of fill to back fill the 16" rise. Varies if 30 yd double bottom plus a 10 yd or 4 10 yd trucks based on how area can be accessed. Plus labor to back fill and compact.
time=$$, builders time lost on time to do extra work not figured in to origianal contract.
1.5 yds concrete to fill cores of extra block, plus rerod and labor to fill cores.

Builder willing to eat cost of survey I think is showing he is a pretty good guy. He should as the contract states homeowner would order. Builder may have been trying to keep project going and took it upon himself to order the survey so as not to delay it by waiting for you to order one?? maybe. So he wants an extra $1600.00 for all the above. (Btw. the 40 yards of fill is an uncompacted figure) In Michigan that would be a decent deal. $1600.00-$400-$600 for survey. Approx. $1200.00 for rest and it sounds like you are pretty satisfied with everything else. Other than the survey issue I don't think there is anything to "Handle" Ask what he paid for the survey and pay the difference.

 

[BLUBAYOU]

I agree that you should pay for the block, but the survey is up in the air as far as I'm concerned.

You knew moving the garage would cost more before it was done, but he was too busy to put a price on the change. At this point it would have been best to get that change order. That's his bad for not pricing it out, but you knew the cost would differ and you simply didn't know how much until pay day came. They did actually do the work and the $1100 price sounds reasonable, so pay up and ask for pre-approval on future changes.

From your original post, he ordered the survey simply to make sure the garage is aligned with the house. If compliance with easements/setbacks/etc were clear prior to the survey being ordered by the builder and he really did order it simply to locate the garage relative to the house, I think it is on him. If the survey revealed the need to change location, then I think you should pay and thank him for saving you from a future headache with the building dept.

However it is settled, I wouldn't get into a battle over the survey. In the grand scheme of things, it's $500 and you could have a lot of future headaches if things were to go south. Who knows, even if you get the $500 for the survey out of him, he may get it from you elsewhere.

As much as I don't want to give money away, I also want to be able to get a project done on time and be on speaking terms with anyone I've paid to work on it. I like being able to give references at the end and appreciate that anyone who has worked for me would say that I was good to work for/with.

 

[BLUBAYOU]

Being able to come to a peaceful agreement may help you in the end.

I have a cousin who's an excavator, but he was simply too busy to get my site in on short notice (unexpectedly got our permit the day after application in November, decided to break ground before winter hit). He recommended another local guy to do the work for me, who I ended up going with.

I dealt with a few issues that came up with this guy, but it was done civilly and we're on good terms now (2 years later I still get a honk and wave whenever he goes by and he sees I'm in the garage or outside). There was a lot more fill required than he had quoted. Our deal was labor only since I have family to do the material hauling. I paid for the added fill and still paid the excavators for their time to get it in place and compacted. It cost me more, but he returned the favor by leaving their machines through the weekend after they finished on a Friday so I could tackle a few nuisance jobs around my property with them. It's obviously not something he'd normally do, but he knows I've run the skid steer and excavator with my cousin on various jobs. I'm sure he would have spent a little time knocking those things out if I wasn't competent on the machines.

My 2.5 year old son was happiest of all since he got to sit in the machines he had only gotten to look at from a distance before!

 

[ducati]

The location change was forced, we were not allowed to build in the location he bid on.
He told my wife he knew it was going to cost more when the location was changed, but he was too busy to let us know. I know he wanted this job and I think he was afraid I would have backed out had he told me it was going to cost that much more. I think most of my frustration comes from the fact that he is not talking to me before he does things and now he is coming to me demanding more money like I'm an open checkbook.
I am not sure if an extra two rows of block on a 24X32 garage should be the $1100 he says it is. I am already paying for most of the foundation, I cant see the extra block costing that much. Is he just trying to make up for under bidding?

Two corses of block minus your door opening would be about 150 extra blocks, those blocks would be about $3.00 here in my area, unless he is buying at menards which I doubt that he is. So there is $450 in just the block, might as well figure about $300 in labor to set those blocks so now your at $750. One load of sand for fill is $250 delivered so now your at $1000 and he has to move that sand so figure $100 for some skidloader time. I think he is just charging you what it costs. Here is another thing to point out. Say you were building the garage yourself, wouldn't of you had those costs anyway once you had to move the garage? Just pay it IMO, that or if you do end up making some change from here on out, expect it to cost the moon to do.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Two corses of block minus your door opening would be about 150 extra blocks, those blocks would be about $3.00 here in my area, unless he is buying at menards which I doubt that he is. So there is $450 in just the block, might as well figure about $300 in labor to set those blocks so now your at $750. One load of sand for fill is $250 delivered so now your at $1000 and he has to move that sand so figure $100 for some skidloader time. I think he is just charging you what it costs. Here is another thing to point out. Say you were building the garage yourself, wouldn't of you had those costs anyway once you had to move the garage? Just pay it IMO, that or if you do end up making some change from here on out, expect it to cost the moon to do.

I agree with this, If you can have a minor meeting and establish this as the reasoning he has for the extra cost you should pay it. You really don't want it in a court. He did wrong by not specifying the change but the structure was moved and there were added costs.
BTW, you should almost always be nice to the poor working dopes, they will do a nicer job for you if you are nice. Usually about a third of the way into it a lunch can be nice, and maybe a coffee and dough nut gig after that. It sort of shows that you are not the JO that the boss might be saying you are.

 

[Ohio Auto]

Just pay it and quit your whining.

Seriously...cost overruns happen on any building project. If you knew the building site had changed and didn't ask about extra cost you are as negligent as him.

Open and frequent communication is critical between home owner and the contractor to avoid misunderstandings like this.

Not to mention..if it's anything like Ohio...he is allowed a certain % of overrun without any legal difficulty.

 

[W650Mike]

The survey was a good idea whether or not the location was moved.

 

[rburke65]

I would pay the cost. I will echo the above comments and add that if the shoe was on the other foot and you were trying to feed your family,...well I'm sure you will do what is right.

 

[brownbagg]

1600 is nothing for two course of block, if he did a good job, pay him, he not screwing you just making a living

 

[35mastr]

Extra block is extra cost that you should pay. The survey is on the builder.

He probably should have gotten you to sign a change order, but a change was required that was not part of the initial deal. Doesn't sound like the survey was required, so that would be on him.

Once again.

 

[crazytrain]

Changes cost extra material and extra labor which costs extra money. The man is only trying to make a living. He should not be expected to eat this cost of unexpected changes. If he ate unexpected costs on every job he would be out of business. Pay him and request that he consult you before making any changes or unexpected cost increases. Good luck