How's it look

[kamesama980]

My wife and I recently purchased a place. Big garage hence being here. I'm posting up some pics and asking for your $.02 GJ. The inspection, in hindsight, was pretty cursory and I noticed a few things he didn't. We got it knowing there were a few minor to moderate issues. The only one electrical that I know if is a bad neutral in the house box:


Here's the album:http://s29.photobucket.com/user/kam...3&page=1&_suid=137389265542006543416848795528
you guys see anything else that needs to be addressed?

On to what you guys want to see, the garage. detached 24x40 on a slab built in '06. Electric is run underground, must be Teed at the meter, it's not teed at the house box that I could see. First thought: there are no relief cuts in the slab. none. there are 2 or 3 very small cracks near where boards go through and one larger one by the big door. PO claims 3" thick and he ran a landscaping business from it, still has tracks from skid-steers and end loaders. Problem? (I know, it's at the minimum for a lift)



Shouldn't there be a main breaker? Even if it isn't required, I wouldn't mind being able to cut power to the building when doing electrical.


Main light switches.


This'd be called a pole barn, yes?


Future plans (or pipe dreams) include
-lift: not even gonna worry about right now.
-240, welding, etc plugs: worry about that if/when I have stuff that needs it.
-insulation: (further off on the timeline) just buy rolls and put it up between the uprights and trusses? Should I put some boards up as false studs between the main uprights to secure wall coverings eventually?
-shelves: I have a large pile of L brackets for shelves from my last place which had a stick-built shed...studs on 16" for the brackets...now not so much. I'm thinking it'd be easier to build free standing shelves than build structure to use these...or should I just put up some boards like studs to hold the brackest and fasten them to the walls?
-lights: was looking at lowes, eyeballing some 4x48" T8 commercial fixtures...get a contractor pack of 12 plus a x% off coupon, run 240 to power them (more lights per circuit) Coming with lights, they're cheaper than the cheapo 2x48" fixtures that don't include tubes. Probably not the highest quality tubes but that can be fixed later. need light at all right now (8 screw in sockets for the whole building currently)

also, this happens to be post #100 LOL

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes definitely fix that burnt neutral. You can do this by cutting the wire just before its burnt and splice on a new wire with a wire nut!

A few possible red flags in the garage panel but depends on where its fed from:

* Where does the feeder for the garage actually connect to? If this panel is fed off of a main service panel or main disconnect at the meter main or meter socket then the feeder should definitely be 4-wire(i only see 3 in the pic) and the neutral bars should be isolated from the grounds AND panel enclosure. The grounds/egcs should be moved onto a new ground bar mounted directly to the panel.
* The panel SHOULD have a main disconnect since there are more than 6 breaker handles UNLESS there is a main disconnect somewhere else on the garage!
*The feeder coming into that panel appears to be pinched real tight on the conduit fitting at the bottom of the panel. U might want to check to make sure that the conductors didnt get messed up!
*That gray feeder looks like SER. If it goes underground and its SER, then thats the wrong cable because SER is not rated for underground use either direct buried or in coduit. Check the jacket to see what writing is on it!

 

[Falcon67]

Looks like the barn is fed from one of the 60As on the left side of the panel - guessing, but that's kinda what it looks like in the photos. Looks like an older pre-2008 code 3 wire feed.

Even if you stick with the older 3 wire feed, I'd replace that shop panel with a panel that had a main, just for convenience if nothing else.

I would be finding out which circuit that burnt neutral serves and opening every box on the run to see if there are other signs of trouble or overload.

 

[Jarcese]

Looks like you need to take all of that out and start from scratch. Re-use whatever material you can. Looks like a lot of wasted wire. You could probably re-do everything and have wire left over. That feeder might be a big problem for you though. Hopefully if it's underground it's in pipe so you can replace it easily.

 

[nehog]

Yes definitely fix that burnt neutral. You can do this by cutting the wire just before its burnt and splice on a new wire with a wire nut!

One should inspect/replace the entire run of that cable. Depending on what happened it may be just damaged at the termination at the neutral bar, or the wire may be damaged all the way to the other termination. Don't just replace the end without ensuring the rest of the cable is still good.

IMHO that garage panel should have a disconnect/breaker.

The entire job is ugly, but you may be able to survive with it for a while.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

One should inspect/replace the entire run of that cable. Depending on what happened it may be just damaged at the termination at the neutral bar, or the wire may be damaged all the way to the other termination. Don't just replace the end without ensuring the rest of the cable is still good.

IMHO that garage panel should have a disconnect/breaker.

The entire job is ugly, but you may be able to survive with it for a while.

I was in a hurry and dint have time to go into anymore detail on that. Yes, i would definitely investigate further and see if anything else is messed up!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The one neutral is burned, but the others have been quite hot. Even the screw is discolored. I would replace the entire bar and screws. Its been hot and the chances of getting a good connection to stay is not great.

Charles

 

[madosta]

Why did the neutral burn like that/get hot? Improperly wired MWBC?

When I saw the garage panel I cringed. Not because it's terrible but it fails in comparison to what some guys here can do... I would pull it out and start over, putting in a convenient main disconnect.

 

[kamesama980]

Yea that's about what I expected. Hoped against but expected.

Responses to a few comments so far organized by by my brain and no other discernable order:

I do not believe the garage is fed from the 60a breakers in the house. My logic: the house has resister central heat and the inspecter said there were 2 elements ergo the 2 largest (and matching) breakers are for it. Also, the feeder for the garage is different wire than what's on those 60a breakers. The jobs not great but I don't think it's THAT bad that he would have changed wires out of sight (but you never know). that, at least, is easy to test.

The feeder for the garage is buried. it goes underground in conduit and I have no idea what happens after that.

House is a modular over a crawlspace put up in '00. Garage was put up in '06. so yea, it's gonna be pre-'08 wiring.

Jarcese: are you suggesting pulling ALL the garage wiring to redo it?

 

[Jarcese]

Well I guess it depends on if you're finishing it or not. I would say theres a pretty good chance of you smashing those switches and outlets by accident. The wire should be protected if that's a decent possibility and it looks like the wiring might get in the way of some of the wall finishing that you may do in the future. You're going to have to do some splicing of the grounds to get them off the neutral bar as well. The other guys mentioned the other code voilations. You're going to need GFCI's too if you start over.

There's nothing grossly wrong with it, but if it were my garage I would probably start over to make it easier and tailor it to exactly what you want. Like bigger breakers, wire, and sockets for larger tools where you need them because it looks like everything in 15 amp in there.

It's your garage though so if you're just parking and storing stuff in there, then don't worry about it too much. Just try to fix some of the code problems so the insurance company doesn't screw you if something happens.

 

[nehog]

Why did the neutral burn like that/get hot? Improperly wired MWBC?...

I (personally) suspect that the screw was not properly torqued, a high(er) load was placed on the circuit and a high resistance joint formed at the screw. At least that's what I would hope/assume. Check the black wire in that cable and see if it's damaged. If no damage to the black side, that lends credence to my theory the screw wasn't torqued.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I think the discoloration on the other neutrals could be from smoke from the burnt neutral! Ive seen that happen before just because of the proximity!