Hows Kokens warranty policy?

[2ndGearRubber]

Broke/cracked my wheel nut socket today. Has been in service about 3 months now. I use them every day, is this the kind of thing Koken would warranty? Or you figure theyd just say the useful life of the product?

Before I bounced this off Koken Usa and however much back and forth that would take i wanted to see if there was any data about their policy in general.

 

[B_Bimmer]

I don't know if you're allowed to say you broke the obscure foreign tools like that and toptul. You're just supposed to pretend they are unbreakable and keep your mouth shut to stay in the club.

 

[FMB4]

Snap-On or Proto for everyday use.

 

[Odd-job]

Please let us know what they say.

Their warranty policy definitely seems as friendly as Tekton's:

Ko-Ken USA, LLC (“Koken”) prides itself on Ko-ken Tools’ life in the field and customer satisfaction. Koken warrants that each product sold by it shall be free from defects in material and workmanship under normal application, use and service for the life of the product. Koken’s sole obligation under this warranty, in Koken’s sole discretion, is to repair or replace, free of charge, any part or parts found to be defective, provided that the product (i) is delivered, postage prepaid, to Ko-Ken USA, LLC, 10 Kidder Road, Chelmsford, MA 01824; (ii) has not been misused, subject to unusual stress, modified or serviced in any manner. THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, WRITTEN OR ORAL, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL KOKEN BE LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES IN EXCESS OF THE REPLACEMENT COST OF THE DEFECTIVE PART(S).

 

[scooby074]

Darn well should be painless warranty for a 3mth old tool. Let us know how you make out. Really could be a make or break decision on their part.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Snap-On or Proto for everyday use.

Normally my preference but I dont think they make something like these sockets.

I like them a lot, hopefully it's just a dud. If I could get two years put of them i could probably live with that.

 

[Steve_P]

Dunno, but that doesn't seem to be a "defect" that would be subject to warranty; it's a very thin wall socket and that comes with a price- durability. And I have the same socket; and have already replaced the plastic sleeve with just light home use. If you used it on a bolt tightened to 500 lb-ft and it broke, that wouldn't be a defect IMO. I'm sure you didn't, but I think that will be their point. Maybe they will warranty it, but if I broke mine I'd just buy another. Or you could obviously switch so another brand with a no question warranty and use a 3" extension.
Someone else here that uses them professionally also had a failure on one of these.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Dunno, but that doesn't seem to be a "defect" that would be subject to warranty; it's a very thin wall socket and that comes with a price- durability. And I have the same socket; and have already replaced the plastic sleeve with just light home use. If you used it on a bolt tightened to 500 lb-ft and it broke, that wouldn't be a defect IMO. I'm sure you didn't, but I think that will be their point. Maybe they will warranty it, but if I broke mine I'd just buy another. Or you could obviously switch so another brand with a no question warranty and use a 3" extension.
Someone else here that uses them professionally also had a failure on one of these.

I use it exclusively to remove and install wheels. If it has a torque limit, it should be advertised as such. Almost all use is with my stubby Astro gun. I bought it mid october, that's a pretty lame service life if it's not a defect in the socket itself.

Previously I used a socket on a pinned extension, wrapped in electrical tape. They last about 18months, and then the drive and socket ends are pretty loose. I like them to be pinned to stay together wiggling them on swollen lug nuts. If the Koken isn't warranty-able, or in the mean time, I may just tack weld a 21mm to a generic 3" extension. No cool yellow paint though.

 

[noid]

They do advertise it as limited.

Makers like snap on and proto don't make this type of socket because they know that they will break. This is actually very Japanese to make a specialty tool no one else will and tell you its limitations.

It could very well have been a seized or overtorqued lug nuts that exceeded the torque spec.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^ What's the limit then? Okay, it's got a limit, give me a ft/lb number. Sounds like weasel words to me. Frankly they could make it thicker, just as thick as a normal socket, and it would work fine for me. As I said I'm not removing head bolts from heavy equipment - I run these on a 3lb gun the length of a credit card. LOL

I'll look for a box and try my luck mailing it in and report back at some point.

 

[Odd-job]

^ What's the limit then? Okay, it's got a limit, give me a ft/lb number. Sounds like weasel words to me. Frankly they could make it thicker, just as thick as a normal socket, and it would work fine for me. As I said I'm not removing head bolts from heavy equipment - I run these on a 3lb gun the length of a credit card. LOL

I'll look for a box and try my luck mailing it in and report back at some point.

Would email or call Koken USA before blowing shipping and getting told no.

Think you need to switch to a weaker sauce M12 stubby for these lug nut sockets.

 

[General Geoff]

^ What's the limit then? Okay, it's got a limit, give me a ft/lb number. Sounds like weasel words to me. Frankly they could make it thicker, just as thick as a normal socket, and it would work fine for me. As I said I'm not removing head bolts from heavy equipment - I run these on a 3lb gun the length of a credit card. LOL

If you don't need the thin wall, why did you get a thin wall socket?

 

[Zewnten]

If you don't need the thin wall, why did you get a thin wall socket?

Because that's what they make?

 

[mogandave]

They do advertise it as limited.

Makers like snap on and proto don't make this type of socket because they know that they will break. This is actually very Japanese to make a specialty tool no one else will and tell you its limitations.

It could very well have been a seized or overtorqued lug nuts that exceeded the torque spec.

If it is sold to do wheel & nut work, and it failed doing wheel & nut work, it should not break, and it should be covered.

If it is sold to do wheel & nut work except for seized or over-torqued wheel and nut work, and it failed doing seized or over-torqued wheel & nut work, it may break, and it may not be be covered.

 

[mogandave]

I use it exclusively to remove and install wheels. If it has a torque limit, it should be advertised as such. Almost all use is with my stubby Astro gun. I bought it mid october, that's a pretty lame service life if it's not a defect in the socket itself.

Previously I used a socket on a pinned extension, wrapped in electrical tape. They last about 18months, and then the drive and socket ends are pretty loose. I like them to be pinned to stay together wiggling them on swollen lug nuts. If the Koken isn't warranty-able, or in the mean time, I may just tack weld a 21mm to a generic 3" extension. No cool yellow paint though.

I can't imagine a tack holding up. You might try heat-shrink...

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Would email or call Koken USA before blowing shipping and getting told no.

Think you need to switch to a weaker sauce M12 stubby for these lug nut sockets.

I have an m12 stubby. I dont want to spend 3-5seconds per lug nut. LOL.

Usually the astro hits for under 1 second, I wont let it rattle for more than 2. In my experience that's what kills sockets, just bouncing around rattling on something that doesnt move. If the astro doesnt move it, pretty rare, the 2235 has it off in less than 1 second. Usually the motor doesnt evem fully spool up before the lug nut is moving.


Good call on the email, I'll do that first. Better use of time.


As for lugs being over tightened. This socket acts like a torque stick. You're not dealing with really stuck stuff as a result. That said, basically every lug nut I encounter is over tightened. It's an m12 or m14 stud and nut, that's just the real world.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Shot koken usa an email with my pictures, we shall see how the respond.

 

[Mr_B]

I've replaced some chromes no bother, due to short time you used it and it being first warranty on it I would expect them accept it and more so if you highlighted it only used for wheel work and on a nano impact then it favourable that socket might not been best example of the bunch .
modern era impact sockets can be pretty wanky, I had issues in weeks on MAC ones I bought, Taiwan crv for general sizes seems hold up best for me in terms of drive and broach . If you can get away with more standard walled impact socket might be good to mix that with a pin & ring or push detent extension and keep the hopeful koken replacement for when thin walled a must .

 

[Buckgnarly]

In for the response.

 

[scooby074]

They do advertise it as limited.

Makers like snap on and proto don't make this type of socket because they know that they will break. This is actually very Japanese to make a specialty tool no one else will and tell you its limitations.

It could very well have been a seized or overtorqued lug nuts that exceeded the torque spec.

That disclaimer doesnt sound very promising. If Koken wants to be a Pro level tool in NA their warranty game better be on point.

 

[Odd-job]

I have an m12 stubby. I dont want to spend 3-5seconds per lug nut. LOL.

Usually the astro hits for under 1 second, I wont let it rattle for more than 2. In my experience that's what kills sockets, just bouncing around rattling on something that doesnt move. If the astro doesnt move it, pretty rare, the 2235 has it off in less than 1 second. Usually the motor doesnt evem fully spool up before the lug nut is moving.


Good call on the email, I'll do that first. Better use of time.


As for lugs being over tightened. This socket acts like a torque stick. You're not dealing with really stuck stuff as a result. That said, basically every lug nut I encounter is over tightened. It's an m12 or m14 stud and nut, that's just the real world.

While I just pretend to be an engineer on the internet I always thought the impacts with more balls had a better chance of breaking stuff

If Koken gives you the good old "lifetime" warranty reject maybe you can buy 2 more and let us know if one lives longer on the M12 vs the Astro?!?

Anyways glad you are posting about your real life professional usage of these tools. I think I got into Koken because of you. Was thinking of this lugnut socket too in my last Palmac order. I figure if it lasted you 3 months, it would probably last me a lifetime.

 

[jimmy_]

Koken's warranty was non-existent for me. I broke some chrome 3/8 sockets and they claimed to know I was using my tools improperly (I was not) from the pictures I sent them. Good Luck!

 

[noid]

If it is sold to do wheel & nut work, and it failed doing wheel & nut work, it should not break, and it should be covered.

If it is sold to do wheel & nut work except for seized or over-torqued wheel and nut work, and it failed doing seized or over-torqued wheel & nut work, it may break, and it may not be be covered.

Take it in context; this is a Japanese tool, made for the Japanese market. Between the shakens and general attitude towards doing work with precision, its far less common to find excessively corroded or overtorqued lug nuts.

However, they do note "and torque is limited", not "any torque you wish to apply while removing lugnuts will be just fine".

That disclaimer doesnt sound very promising. If Koken wants to be a Pro level tool in NA their warranty game better be on point.

You mean discontinue specialized tools? Whats your alternative?

Metallurgy only gets you so far, a thin socket is a thin socket is a thin socket. Get a thicker socket.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Things are not looking good.



I had an email exchange with a very helpful woman at Koken USA. Based on the time in service, she indicated the product should be eligible for a "one time exchange". This leads me to believe that they would likely be considering my situation a "good will" replacement, and not something covered under normal warranty. Okay, works for me better than nothing. However, she then asked me for the invoice from when I originally ordered the item.

It appears they will not warranty anything they do not sell on their own site. So even though they are Koken, and I have a broken Koken product, I must deal with the vender. There are 3 listed online distributors on their website, perhaps things would be different had I purchased through one of those venders. So, Koken USA cannot help me.

Now, my last hope is the 3rd party Koken dealer on Amazon. I inquired with them about warranty, explaining that Koken USA had instructed me to contact them. Ideally this 3rd part can get a hold of Koken Japan, with the pictures I included, and see if Koken Japan will warranty or "good will" my socket.


I'd consider these no-warranty items. Had they been listed explicitly as such, I wouldn't have purchased them, but that's life. I'm using this on 10 wheels a day max, so a 3 month life on a $41 socket is silly IMO. That's over $150/year in 21mm socket costs. IDK sounds silly to me, a 3 month acceptable service life seems illogical. It *****, because these things are awesome. If/when my warranty/good-will claim is dead, I'll likely weld up the crack and use them at home or something. Or just keep using them until they all die, then use the stump of the socket to weld up a tool.


My 1/4 drive zeal sockets are cheap enough I consider their workmanship warranty enough. Well, unless one broke in 3 months I guess, I'm way past that. Their nut grip universal sockets they specifically state not to apply "torque" to them, break something free, then remove with the nut grip. Install, then swap sockets to torque. IIRC the normal nut grip are the same way. Basically it seems like the warranty is out the door if you use them regularly. Is what it is.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Take it in context; this is a Japanese tool, made for the Japanese market. Between the shakens and general attitude towards doing work with precision, its far less common to find excessively corroded or overtorqued lug nuts.

However, they do note "and torque is limited", not "any torque you wish to apply while removing lugnuts will be just fine".


You mean discontinue specialized tools? Whats your alternative?

Metallurgy only gets you so far, a thin socket is a thin socket is a thin socket. Get a thicker socket.

If they sold a thick version, I would have bought it. I wanted a one piece alternative to my 3" extension with pin retention plus a shallow socket for wheel use. If that's their policy, that's life. Just wanted to let others know before they buy such a product for daily use in the shop. Failure once a year? I'd probably eat that, I really like them.


IDK how I'm supposed to know how tight the lug is prior to removal. If I rattle for 2 seconds, I give up and throw a 21mm deep on my IR2235. Occasionally I'd use the koken. As I said, it's extremely rare I even hold the trigger on the 2235, or my stubby gun when removing lugs. I snap the trigger, the lug breaks free, then I spin it off. The air motors don't even spool up all the way, it's 1 second. Stubby I'd let rattle for 2 seconds. They're m12 studs, so we're not talking about huge torque figures.

 

[gatewaysysop]

It ***** to hear multiple folks just in this thread getting nowhere with warranties.

I gotta be honest, it feels like yet another brand name that is lavished with superlatives and over-hyped (looking at you, Toptul, Tekton, Drill Hog...) and then fails to deliver on service when actual performance falls far short of advertised quality.

Koken has some really nice looking stuff and a few things that really tempt me, but reading this sort of stuff gives me pause.

 

[scooby074]

You mean discontinue specialized tools? Whats your alternative?

Metallurgy only gets you so far, a thin socket is a thin socket is a thin socket. Get a thicker socket.

If theyre selling a 1/2" tool, rated for impact, it should stand up to more than a 3mth life, period, assuming they want to be known as professional tools. If they want to be "boutique" tool polisher tools, offer essentially no warranty for legitimate use, well thats their decision too.
They should stamp their tools with rated torque if that is the case as well.

I dont own any Koken yet, but they do look nice. However if their warranty is basically "good will only", that wont fly. I dont care how "uniquely japanese" that may be, 3mths is a joke, thinwall or not.

I get that the extension makes them unique, but these sockets are over $40usd ea, probably well over $60ea here, and thats far into snapon territory, heck you could buy the whole Gearwrench lug socket set for less.

 

[noid]

If theyre selling a 1/2" tool, rated for impact, it should stand up to more than a 3mth life, period, assuming they want to be known as professional tools. If they want to be "boutique" tool polisher tools, offer essentially no warranty for legitimate use, well thats their decision too.
They should stamp their tools with rated torque if that is the case as well.

I dont own any Koken yet, but they do look nice. However if their warranty is basically "good will only", that wont fly. I dont care how "uniquely japanese" that may be, 3mths is a joke, thinwall or not.

I get that the extension makes them unique, but these sockets are over $40usd ea, probably well over $60ea here, and thats far into snapon territory, heck you could buy the whole Gearwrench lug socket set for less.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. What do you mean thinwall or not? Are you implying another maker would have a stronger socket for the same given thickness?

We all agree its inconvenient, but physics could care less about our conveniences.

I do think they should stamp the max torque spec though, that makes total sense.

 

[noid]

Another option from Tone. Same thickness, but no guarantee it'll last any longer.

Give it a shot and let us know how it holds up relative.

 

[noid]

If they sold a thick version, I would have bought it. I wanted a one piece alternative to my 3" extension with pin retention plus a shallow socket for wheel use. If that's their policy, that's life. Just wanted to let others know before they buy such a product for daily use in the shop. Failure once a year? I'd probably eat that, I really like them.


IDK how I'm supposed to know how tight the lug is prior to removal. If I rattle for 2 seconds, I give up and throw a 21mm deep on my IR2235. Occasionally I'd use the koken. As I said, it's extremely rare I even hold the trigger on the 2235, or my stubby gun when removing lugs. I snap the trigger, the lug breaks free, then I spin it off. The air motors don't even spool up all the way, it's 1 second. Stubby I'd let rattle for 2 seconds. They're m12 studs, so we're not talking about huge torque figures.

Grey Pneumatic® 2021XMD - 1/2" Drive 21 mm 6-Point Extra-Deep Impact Socket

1/2" Drive 21 mm 6-Point Extra-Deep Impact Socket - Part Number 2021XMD by Grey Pneumatic. Available in Shop Supplies Department at www.toolsid.com

www.toolsid.com

Get this instead, its 127mm long; 17mm longer then the koken and its not thin wall.

 

[65ranchero]

its not thin wall.

That's the problem, fat wall sockets will not fit in some lug nut opening, thin wall is a must.
Now that I don't work on the line anymore this is what I use at home. It probably will not last in a commercial setting.

3Pcs Lug Nut Socket Set Thin Wall Deep Wheel Protector 1/2" Drive 17 -19 - 21mm | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3Pcs Lug Nut Socket Set Thin Wall Deep Wheel Protector 1/2" Drive 17 -19 - 21mm at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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there are sets of 3 and 4 or 5
I saw German set for a lot more , who knows if they are any better

 

[Greg5OH]

What about these titan ones? less than 13 each via JB tool . CrMo, says can be used with impact. Lifetime warranty.
I have the 19 and 17. I dont have much impact time with them. Length is great though.

Titan Tools 21119 1/2 in. Drive x 19 mm XL Lug Nut Socket

Buy Titan Tools 21119 1/2 in. Drive x 19 mm XL Lug Nut Socket with an everyday low price and fast shipping! JB Tools

www.jbtools.com

 

[nicks78camaro]

It would be chickensh!t to not warranty that for life, much less 3 months.

I wouldn't buy another one if they only last 3 months and no warranty. Gotta be a better solution out there for your situation.

 

[scooby074]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. What do you mean thinwall or not? Are you implying another maker would have a stronger socket for the same given thickness?

Thinwall or not, lasting 3mts for a professional, name brand tool is not acceptable when being used as designed. This definitely should be a warranty item, assuming the company wants to be known in professional garages and not enthusiast websites.

Ive noticed them doing a lot more advertising lately. Several youtubers , like Mr.Subaru (pro Subaru Mechanic) have been pushing their products including their $4000(?) pure Titanium set.

I dont know where Koken is seeing themselves in 5-10 years, but being stingy on warranty is one way to NOT be in commercial shops when they have to compete with the imports and truck tools that are offering easy "no questions asked" warranty exchanges.

 

[Mr_B]

^
Part of issue is USA mind set on lifetime tool warranty, pretty much no other country does this in same way .
Koken is pretty much a 1 time exchange at best .
I personally prefer buying tools under self warranty intention as that the best warranty service you ever going get.
Koken good for speciality socketry and ratchets and you likely get no issue on swapping out early faults but you got no chance years down the road so if you fan of forever swapping a tool it won't work good for you ...

 

[scooby074]

^
Part of issue is USA mind set on lifetime tool warranty, pretty much no other country does this in same way .
Koken is pretty much a 1 time exchange at best .
I personally prefer buying tools under self warranty intention as that the best warranty service you ever going get.
Koken good for speciality socketry and ratchets and you likely get no issue on swapping out early faults but you got no chance years down the road so if you fan of forever swapping a tool it won't work good for you ...

I dont abuse my tools and have had many for years, but 3mths? Thats ridiculous. This would totally piss me off on the brand. 3yrs maybe an ok service life?

Im looking at more than just this tool, which, in fairness is pretty unique, but if Im paying Snapon or tool truck prices, I expect tool truck warranty.

 

[Mr_B]

I dont abuse my tools and have had many for years, but 3mths? Thats ridiculous. This would totally piss me off on the brand. 3yrs maybe an ok service life?

Im looking at more than just this tool, which, in fairness is pretty unique, but if Im paying Snapon or tool truck prices, I expect tool truck warranty.

Yes I quite agree it should get replaced but issue is you not really got direct Koken head office in USA, it a third party and they only doing warranty via specific purchase channels.
Koken has never been an easy warranty brand even outside of USA .
try warranty stahlwille, facom and so forth via a dealer channel in USA when you sourced it elsewhere ...

It ***** but it is what it is .

 

[Wrench97]

They do advertise it as limited.

Makers like snap on and proto don't make this type of socket because they know that they will break. This is actually very Japanese to make a specialty tool no one else will and tell you its limitations.

It could very well have been a seized or overtorqued lug nuts that exceeded the torque spec.

Well Snappy does make a thin wall impact socket , I've broken several from removing over torqued nuts and Snappy has warrantied every one.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

 

[noid]

Well Snappy does make a thin wall impact socket , I've broken several from removing over torqued nuts and Snappy has warrantied every one.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

You're comparing apples to oranges. The koken thin 21mm impact equivalent would be the attached.

The difference between OD of this thin and the thin thin is 29.2mm vs 27.5mm. That's a huge difference.

The reason for 27.5mm is so you can also fit a soft sleeve.

Thinwall or not, lasting 3mts for a professional, name brand tool is not acceptable when being used as designed. This definitely should be a warranty item, assuming the company wants to be known in professional garages and not enthusiast websites.

Ive noticed them doing a lot more advertising lately. Several youtubers , like Mr.Subaru (pro Subaru Mechanic) have been pushing their products including their $4000(?) pure Titanium set.

I dont know where Koken is seeing themselves in 5-10 years, but being stingy on warranty is one way to NOT be in commercial shops when they have to compete with the imports and truck tools that are offering easy "no questions asked" warranty exchanges.

You think this a NA play? Their market is Japan, and they are quite large there; they really could care less about some youtubers.

What Koken USA is doing as a distributor is irrelevant.

I'm still unsure of your position, you don't seem to want to answer my question around what the alternative is or if you believe another company has a better like for like offering.

 

[scooby074]

You think this a NA play? Their market is Japan, and they are quite large there; they really could care less about some youtubers.

What Koken USA is doing as a distributor is irrelevant.

I'm still unsure of your position, you don't seem to want to answer my question around what the alternative is or if you believe another company has a better like for like offering.

Sure I think this is a NA play. Why the push to NA audiences on their social medias? At the end of the day Koken Japan/KokenUSA is responsible for the product. I get that there is some issue with the product being sourced from overseas, but that should be a non issue.

Lets take the gold standard of Snapon. You can send items into corprate for warranty if you have no driver, not a problem. Why is Koken making this difficult?

If they are wanting to play in this market and be successful, they are going to have to step it up, otherwise they will just remain enthusiast tools.

As to comparisons, im deliberately not answering because its not really relevant. The only relevant thing is how Koken handles this issue. If they want to be successful in NA, warranty is key. That said, there are several companies offering similar sockets who offer good warranties. Titan has one with built in extension. Gearwrench and others have sleeved sockets.