Hudson wildfire near Bastrop

[bluedog225]

It started about a mile and a half from my place. Currently about 400 acres and about 50% contained. If we get some rain tonight, I think it’s over. If we get a lot of heavy wind, things could go different.

Heavily wooded. Houston toad habitat so there are some limits on what I can clear. I have a half decent defensible space around the place. But a couple of trees too close that I just can’t let go of yet.

Anyway, I’ve been planning to get a 5,000 gallon rainwater collection tank. I’d like to rig it up with a pump and put big sprinkler heads at the four corners. Out a ways to get some distance but also reach the structure. We’ve had two or three big wildfires out in the area in the past years. I lost 8 acres to the second one. Watching the fire move at a quick jog through the grass get your attention.

I plan to clear the trees far enough back that the fire won’t melt the windows. And I’d like to do something about the grass. Keeping it mowed out there is not really an option for me right now.

Would a pump like this be suitable? It’s available for a pretty good price. I know I need to do some math to make sure it’s flow right and pressure or suitable for the sprinkler heads I pick.

I don’t know enough about pumps to know if a jet pump is ok for this use. Seems like is would be fine.

thanks

 

[pembol]

Here is hoping for low winds and rain!

You want low pressure and high flow - a sprinkler pump may be a better option. Something like this will provide 5 - 10x more flow. Also, be aware that sprinklers may not be very effective under high wind conditions when you are most likely to have a fast moving fire. There is also a good chance you loose power under these conditions.

 

[dcg9381]

I saw that fire on the news this AM. All I could think of was "again"?
High winds right now, drought, it's bad news..

I'm on rain water collection. My tanks are 5000 gallons each and they are about 10' high.. I use a Goulds J15S jet pump. You don't have to worry about draw if your tank base is at the same level as the pump because you'll have water pressure into the pump. A jet pump (sized right for volume and pressure) is 100% fine.

I know I need to do some math to make sure it’s flow right and pressure or suitable for the sprinkler heads I pick.

It's not just that, you need to figure out what size pipe you to supply those heads at distance.

The other thing you need is a pump protector. Otherwise you're going to smoke that pump the first time your tank runs dry....

Oh yea, and ask me about freeze protection when you get that far.

I'm hoping for rain this evening, we are at 25% remaining water capacity.

 

[bluedog225]

Thanks for the input guys. I must be reading it wrong because it looked like the flow rates were similar. I’ll look again.

Good point about the power. I’m on batteries and an inverter. I think I’ve got enough juice to run the pump for about 14 hours. More than enough to drain it dry. I will definitely look into the pump protector.

 

[dcg9381]

Good point about the power. I’m on batteries and an inverter. I think I’ve got enough juice to run the pump for about 14 hours. More than enough to drain it dry. I will definitely look into the pump protector.

If you're on batteries, make sure you put a "low point drain" in this system. The tank will be fine in TX winters, but the lines and pump will not be if you leave water in them... Took me about 2 years to get a system that would survive winter without intervention.

 

[cosmokenney]

I just went through the Bear Fire here in Northern California. It was about 300 to 500 yards from my house before the winds shifted and blew it back into the Tahoe National Forest. But what I was told by more than one source is that once the fire gets to the tree tops it can jump from tree to tree and then it is your roof that will catch on fire - even composite shingles. I have also been told that watering the lawn and shrubs doesn't do much. Might want to consider mounting to the roof.
For the three days we were under evacuation order, there were also water restrictions in place because they used our community well and storage system as the water supply for firefighting. Despite Stampede reservoir being so close, there was apparently no reliable water sources available??

 

[bluedog225]

I really do like the idea of some ginormous water cannons on the roof. Though I’d still face the wind problem. That makes me think I need smaller distributed sprinklers throughout the woods.

I’ve often wondered, but never looked into whether keeping the trees closest to the cabin well watered significantly reduces their flammability in a wildfire scenario. Don’t think it would hurt. But I don’t know if it makes a real difference.

I ask because some relatively modest irrigation all summer wouldn’t be that hard using the municipal water supply. I just don’t expect that water supply to be available at full pressure in the event of a wildfire.

 

[pembol]

Thanks for the input guys. I must be reading it wrong because it looked like the flow rates were similar. I’ll look again.

Good point about the power. I’m on batteries and an inverter. I think I’ve got enough juice to run the pump for about 14 hours. More than enough to drain it dry. I will definitely look into the pump protector.

The jet pump is about 10 gallons per minute, which is totally fine for a household water supply but spread over a large area, is not that much water. The sprinkler pump is 4200 gal/hour or about 70 gallons per minute, which is likely more effective, but will also empty your tank in an hour or two. The actual flow depends on the operating pressure of your sprinklers.

We lost our entire neighborhood and the surrounding ones in a fire 3 years ago. There has been much discussion about how to fire harden rebuilt homes, but I have not seen anyone add exterior fire sprinklers for what it is worth.

 

[tarmy]

We were surrounded by Dixie three years ago…ONE MILLION ACRES! We learned a lot about firefighting, defensible strategies and wildfire behavior after watching all of the above for that fire. This year we were threatened by the Park fire…430,000 acres. That whole fire and the firefighting…and WIND were all the same behaviors as Dixie.

Watering trees has little effect. Metal/cement tile roofs, enclosed eves and decks and dirt surrounding it all are what works. Clear the trees back, remove all surface vegetation and give the firefights good access, a reason to defend your home (as opposed to shake roof, decks, overgrown vegetation and trees near the structures). Once the trees or the tops are going…if the wind is blowing…not much they can do.

we watched with our eyes, 60-90’ trees vaporized in 30 seconds when the fire storms are ripping through. The fire will strip the trunk down in a few minutes…

BUT, as noted by others, they cannot stop these big wind driven fires…period. The wind is the deciding factors for most people…

 

[ericm]

But what I was told by more than one source is that once the fire gets to the tree tops it can jump from tree to tree

Yes I have seen that many times when I was a fire fighter. It's called a crown fire. Sometimes one tree's crown will burn hard enough that the tree next to it bursts into flame. But this is only a worry to a house if there's trees next to it. Absent vegetation next to the house or a something like a propane tank that vents, it's embers that catch a house on fire. They can blow for miles in front of the fire.

and then it is your roof that will catch on fire - even composite shingles. I have also been told that watering the lawn and shrubs doesn't do much. Might want to consider mounting to the roof.
For the three days we were under evacuation order, there were also water restrictions in place because they used our community well and storage system as the water supply for firefighting. Despite Stampede reservoir being so close, there was apparently no reliable water sources available??

Big fires have strong winds. If not pushing the fire, they are generated by the fire. So if you have sprinklers that cover an area of roof by squirting sideways 10', when the fire arrives the wind will push the water aside.

Also, roofs, if they have good asphalt shingles or better yet, metal, are fairly resistant to embers. If you have roof vents, those are a primary entry point for embers. You need vents with 1/8" holes. Better yet are vents coated with special paint which swells up when it gets hot and blocks the vents. That's good especially for the vents on the underside of the soffits. I think the best sprinklers are off pipes run along the drip edge of the eaves with emitters every 6' or so.

But a sprinkler system is only effective if it's running when the fire arrives. Unless you're trapped, you should have fled well before that. Often the power will go out before the fire arrives. So you'd need to set up a generator to run the pump, and have a way to turn it on remotely. Yea you read of people who stayed and saved their homes but you also read of people who did that and died. I'd rather lose the house than die.

I think it's better to do fire clearing and hardening of the house and have your go kits ready for evacuation than to put a lot of effort into a sprinkler system. I have a roof sprinkler system on my current house. I didn't even bother to spec one for the new house. It does have metal roofing and fire proof siding and those special vents through.

 

[rsparks64]

Good luck and hope from more rain tonight.

 

[micromind]

Rather than sprinklers, use 2 basic soaker hoses, one on each side of the roof at the peak. Screw them down to the roof, upside down. The idea here is to get water running down the entire roof, much like it does when it's raining and no wind.

Embers will have a tough time starting a water-soaked roof on fire.

 

[tarmy]

Embers will have a tough time starting a water-soaked roof on fire.

Don’t under estimate the embers ( I am not saying your post was). When our place was 4 MILES from the Dixie…the thunderhead it was making was throwing hot embers 3-5” across onto our roof and the trees and everything else…

The wind pushes the hot embers under decks, cars, trees, eves and can burn homes other ways. Treating the roofs helps….but the defense must include the ground and all the things I mentioned in my earlier post.

I volunteered for ember watch in our area…as the fire people wanted spotters out in front of the main line so they could jump on spot fires. Until you are in the fire storm you really can’t understand the size of the problem. The wind driven embers are raining down, the smoke blocks the sun and the primal fear is front and center. We are on a lake so we had boats to get out if needed…but docks, boats and most things burn just as much as homes…when they told us to leave…we did.

 

[firebirdparts]

The jet is for lifting water more than 30 feet below the pump, so you don't need that. I guess it'll still move water, though.

I have always thought it would be super easy to avoid losing your house in a grass fire, but I've never had to prove it.

 

[RoninB4]

No opinion on your choice of equipment but I used to live in Bastrop (Tahitian Village) and know what fire can do to this area. I hope you get through this.

 

[Aaron_W]

Ground fuels are the carrier.
Independent crown fires through trees are very rare, it is the ground fuels preheating the canopy that sustains most crown fire.
Tree spacing to reduce crown density, removing ladder fuels (brush, lower limbs), and reducing ground fuels are extremely effective at slowing or elimination fire in the trees.

Focus on the ground fuels, reduce and keep existing ground fuels well watered.
Trees are far less of a hazard than most think. Keeping the trees limbed up 6 feet and spaced so the crowns are not touching significantly reduces the hazard of fire in the trees.

You don't need a moonscape. Sure it is hard to beat gravel and concrete but breaking up fuel continuity, and choosing less flamable vegetation is extremely effective.

High winds will always be an issue.

 

[bluedog225]

Thanks all. Got 1.5” or so of rain last light. Should be done with this fire.

 

[WisJim]

Glad you got rain. And that sounds like more than just a light shower.

 

[dcg9381]

I’ve often wondered, but never looked into whether keeping the trees closest to the cabin well watered significantly reduces their flammability in a wildfire scenario. Don’t think it would hurt. But I don’t know if it makes a real difference.

You might look at the recommendations of Firewise.
Cedar is "nuts" level flammable. Once it lights, its' very self-sustaining. You might have pine, which I assume has high oil content too?

Apparently you need to watch the "crowns" of the trees and make sure they are far apart enough to prevent spread.

I just don’t expect that water supply to be available at full pressure in the event of a wildfire.

We got 1.7 inches last night. From that rainfall, we collected 10,500 gallons.

 

[scofo]

We got 1.7 inches last night. From that rainfall, we collected 10,500 gallons.

Just in time delivery. Nice!