Hunter K111 alignment machine Need assistance

[kevakasper]

Yesterday I bought a used Hunter alignment machine. It is a K111 with dsp 100 heads. I cleaned it up last night and got it connected this evening. I have all of the manuals except for the one for the heads / sensors. You have to compensate the sensors once attached to the car. With the limited resources I have been able to find I believe I got them working. I was able to get readings, but I need to get some turn plates to accurately measure my caster and camber. Do we have any current or former alignment techs who are familiar with this unit that I can pick your brain? I would very much appreciate any help.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Milton Shaw]

I've got a G111 with string heads what do you need to know.

 

[djbmw]

I have a Hunter P411 with DSP250 heads,... very similar to what you have.
Sensor compensation is purely to ensure the heads are mounted to the center of the rim and that the rim is true. If the rim isnt true or the heads are mounted all wonky, the compensation process will tell you.

On my P411, the compensate procedure is to mount the heads, click on the "Compensate" button on the computer screen, level and lock all of the heads, and then press the button on one of the heads. The computer will save the measurements and tell you once it's ready. Then, release the 'lock' screw on all heads, roll the car 1/3 wheel rotation forward, level and lock the heads, and press on that button on one of the heads. It might ask you to do this twice before the compensation is complete.

 

[toplessHO]

I too have a G111 and optical heads
I have all the manuals if you need any info other than whats been said already.
cheap easy way to do a check without turntables is a section of newspaper
under each front wheel

 

[Cobra62]

I've done hundreds of alignments with one of those. Ask away. We did get a newer one 6 years ago, so its been awhile....

 

[kevakasper]

I have gotten the sensors to mount and compensate, the readings have been different each time I have mounted the heads ( compensated again after removal ) I can not get the caster reading to work unless I jack up the car. I don't think Caster angle will change as the wheel moves up or down unlike camber. My car is pretty low so that may be the problem. I was able to do the alignment with my old school bubble gauge and home made toe plates and laser levels. The car drives straight, wheel centered, no pull etc. But I think I can get closer with a working machine. Can someone go through the procedure once the sensors are mounted and compensated. I have that down pat now. I am trying to get a Hunter tech out to calibrate the heads just to insure everything is on target. They are not really responding to my requests.....

 

[djbmw]

Once compensated you should have the option to either check the alignment settings and ignore the caster,.. OR run a caster test. Whichever you do, you'll need to ensure that your wheels are on slip plates of some kind (newspaper, vinyl tiles with sand or grease in between them, etc). If you run a caster test, it will simply ask you to turn the steering wheel left or right until the indicator on the screen turns green, then turn the wheel the opposite direction until the indicator turns green, finally center the wheel and you're done.

You can then go back to the live data page (whatever it's called), and start loosening your tie rods, camber bolts, etc to get everything in line.

 

[djbmw]

PS,.... when you're compensating the heads, you're keeping the wheels on the ground at all times, right? You shouldn't jack the car up at all during the compensation procedure unless you just want to 'bypass' the compensation test by fooling the system. Once compensation is complete, I usually stick floor tiles with grease in between them right up to the tires and roll the car onto them while the heads are still mounted but free to move (release the 'lock' screw on each head).

If you ever do need to jack the car up, there should be a menu/button you can press to let the system know that you're lifting it up and the settings will be changing....

 

[kevakasper]

Per the Hunter instructions which I did acquire from Hunter, you do jack up the car to compensate the heads. It is looking for difference in the run out. After compensation is complete, lower the car onto slip plates / turn plates and jounce the vehicle. Compensation is complete and car is ready for the readings.

 

[djbmw]

Per the Hunter instructions which I did acquire from Hunter, you do jack up the car to compensate the heads. It is looking for difference in the run out. After compensation is complete, lower the car onto slip plates / turn plates and jounce the vehicle. Compensation is complete and car is ready for the readings.

That's the "jacking compensation" method which is different than "rolling compensation". I run rolling compensation on my machine as it's far faster to complete - you get accurate readings right away. Also less to go wrong since you dont need to settle the suspension on the slip plates right away.

My gut feeling to why you're getting different readings each time is due to the jacking compensation method - when you lower the car and settle the suspension, there is likely still some load on some of the components. Try the rolling compensation method (you might need a couple of feet of space in front of the car though) and see if your readings are more consistent.

My Machine:

 

[BeemerNut]

I too have a G111 and optical heads
I have all the manuals if you need any info other than whats been said already.
cheap easy way to do a check without turntables is a section of newspaper
under each front wheel

I recently picked up a G111 machine with four sensor heads, four cords with 12 pin connector ends, screen and printer. Being shipped the remote controller off ebay I purchased at 2 AM, i'm jazzed this also hiding my frustration purchase. This a complete unit with four cords and power cord? One 30 pin computer cord to the printer plus its power cord.
I have zero knowledge working with these machines vs old skool with levels, toe-in bar alignments, magnetic hub camber / caster tool. I have zero operating and owner's instructions for this machine. A couple books covering 1960 to 2004 vehicle alignment specs. Contacted a local "Independent Rep" for Hunter Engineering Company off the magnetic business card stuck on the machine. He told me the G111 "too old it's trash". "No support, no operating or owners manuals available". "Good luck its a static display item only". This for my personal vehicles, family plus a couple close friends not a business or money making tool. Retired gear head at this end.
PO told me it works, been in storage 5-7 months, thats all I know about it. frustration to the max now three weeks looking no instructions found.
Beyond locating the power on/off switch this forum is the only information I have found. I plan to make my own squash plates, 12" square x 1/4" steel plates with a center locating pin. Degrees scale, some grease, it should work. Greased tin without center pin not a good idea, don't ask.
Is there a sequence I must follow when compensate checking the sensors? Which one to start with and finish with?
Sensors I see have a up down 1 & 2 arrow, two green LED's, red LED, one big button.
How do I run the cords from the controller to the sensors? Stupid questions but not going to go blindly plugging in things. This equipment is better than Christmas.
A well taken care of machine by the PO, not all beat up. Is it required to have it "calibrated", and if still available a "calibration", app the cost? Was told if it's working fine leave it alone, if not working junk it. Was told there is a "calibration bar to connect the sensors vs paying for this calibrated process"? A string process vs opitical, how do I tell what sensors I have? Inside the tapered square aluminum housings looks to have an optical lens, next to it another lens behind the hole in the red cover. These are red covered wheel sensors. That hurt telling me "it's trash" as I like and respect machinery and equipment. Thanks in advance, end of novel. Carl. .....~~=o&o>......

 

[gnpenning]

Delete

 

[toplessHO]

Local foreign car super mall dealer still uses their G111.
Junk? not hardly
Not as quick as the latest throw down,jump back model but for non pro its just fine.
Yea the support has stopped on a lot of equipment but it still works.
Was the tech driving a vehicle that was out of warranty? ask him if that too was junk?

 

[39CAMC]

A few pictures would tell a thousand words here....

Red sensors? String ones have little string hooks hanging out of the slot. A G111 should be optical.

The cables can be paralel or serial. There are probably 4 plugs on the front of the console, typically you would run a cable from one of those to the left front sensor. Then one from second plug on the LF sensor to the LR. Then the same on the other side. But you can home run all of them from the console or daisy chain all of them. There is no combination that will harm the machine.

Once you have them all plugged in, start the machine and an alignment. I don't remember the menu prompts, but you select alignment type and maybe specs and then begin alignment.

Mount all 4 heads to the car and jack it up (easier if you can do all at once). Go to each head, unscrew the lock and turn the wheel until the green light comes on. Then screw the lock snug and turn the wheel until the bubble shows level. Press the button and the light should start to blink.

Unscrew the lock, turn clockwise until the green light comes back on (will either be 1/3 turn or 1/2 turn). Tighten lock, level, press button. If it is 1/3 of a turn, you will have to repeat at the 8 oclock position, but if a 1/2 turn, you are done when you get back around to the top.

Do this for all 4 wheels and you should get readings on the screen. If you have to remove a sensor from a wheel during the alignment, you have to repeat this compensation process for that wheel.

To measure caster, you have to do a sweep. One of the buttons on the bottom will be "Measure caster" and it will bring up some bar graphs. You basically hold the steering wheel straight with both bars in the middle until it beeps, then turn left until each bar is in the middle (they may not go at the same time) and then repeat while turned to the right and straight again.

If the machine was working before, you probably don't need to have it calibrated. Doubtful the service rep would still have the fixture for those red heads anyway. They don't even have parts for P811 series machines any longer, and a G111 is 10 years older than that, so if it fails, throw it away. That said, those are tough old machines and as long as you protect its power input from surges (don't leave plugged in, IMO) and don't drop the heads, it will work a long time.

Hope this helps,

DaveW

 

[engineer2]

Not familiar with Hunter, but with the Bear alignment machines you needed full-floating turn plates and the caster sweep required the brake pedal to be held depressed.

 

[BeemerNut]

Update;
new owner of a told "good working condition", Hunter G111 monitor, four red plastic covered wheel sensors model No. D/F/G/J111 on them. Has the Remote Control Assembly (hand held) No.146-47-1. Remote plug in unit with long coax cord w/12 pin socket No. 30-187-1. Hunter printer No.167-55-2. Four long cords w/male & female 12 pin connectors. Power and computer plug to printer. Have zero information, no owner's or operating manuals. Have two aligment spec books covering 1060 to 2004 cocering different years and models. Front of G111 monitor, lower right corner has three 12 pin connector ports. No clue about where and what the floppy disc is about and located, what is required with disc replacements? Upgrades with newer floppy discs having specs vs going to the books??
How do I connect up the wheel sensors as well the remote 30-187-1 readout unit to the monitor? Call me stupid, rather ask than accidently let the smoke out.
New battery in the hand held Remote Control Assembly unit, see no light from the LED's, this an invisible to humans light output unit? Will not assemble and power up until I know what the hell i'm doing. Local Hunter field service tech told me "that thing is old trash, no support or manuals available". Called Hunter Engineering, zero replies weeks later. Frustration big time. Thanks in advance, this will be a home use personal machine, own nine vehicles......~~=o&o>......

 

[39CAMC]

The part numbers of everything are useless to me, sorry. I am not a Hunter rep, I just have a lot of experience using the old machines.

I don't remember a G111 having a floppy drive, do you have discs with the machine? Even if you do, they are for the specifications and you can ignore for now.

Ditto with the remote, it is not needed for operation or testing. Ignore for now.

You cannot hook up the machine cables wrong. Any port works for any cable.

So, plug a cable into one of the 3 ports on the front and run it to the LF sensor. Run a second cable from that sensor to the LR sensor.

Starting back at the console, use another port to run to the RF cable and a 4th cable from RF to RR.

Do the compensation routine I mentioned above and you are there. I don't remember all the menu prompts on the machine, but one of the first ones is for alignment type. If you just do a 2 wheel alignment, you don't need to use the rear sensors.

I am glad to help, but I can't possibly type out every single step and every single thing you may not know, so I suggest trying some things and checking back here with specific questions and if possible, photos. It has been since 1992 since I regularly used a machine of this vintage, so I can't remember everything without some prompting.

Thanks,

DaveW

 

[engineer2]

There needs to be a website and forum for vintage automotive service equipment and tools!

 

[BeemerNut]

From what I see your correct no "floppy" disc port.
The G111 monitor has a small hand held unit called "Remote Control Assembly No.146-47-1 with K1, K2, K3,K4 buttons plus an up/down button. Powered by a 9 volt battery. It has two LED's but see no light, this LED light output beyond human range we can see? That or it's a dead unit?
Recently picked up the remote digital readout unit No. 30-187-1, ebay $44, "still works" by the ebay seller with a damaged coax cord do to the broken cord strain relief part. Just arrived replacement cord strain, shorten the 28' coax by 10" and assemble, BFD.
Read the above reply, I should then be able to hook up this remote readout to the last and 3rd empty socket on the G111 monitor as well follow the compensation procedure zeroing out rim wobble issues.
Does it matter during the compensation procedure having the front wheels off the ground on a twin "I" beam 3/4 ton F250 pickup as the camber will go more positive by a 3-5 degrees when jacking the "I" beam at the radius rod connection location?
Once wheels back down they will be on slip and turn plates. Crappy weather not allowing a hands on a vehicle outdoors alignment check and alignment operation check. On a good note was told this Hunter G111 was functioning perfectly before I took possession.

Must have a flat and level alignment location if not on a rack, I underatand.
Any issues or special instructions aligning a vehicle that has smaller diameter front tires than rear tires? Thanks in advance, going in totally blind on this machine, zero operating instructions not wanting to damage this equipment.....~~=o&o>......

 

[39CAMC]

The small remotes didn't work that great when the machines were new. I am sure it is not visible light when it does work. But you don't need the remote.

When the machine is powered on, the buttons directly below the monitor do the same functions. Left 2 are K1 and K2. Middle moves the menu rows up or down and the right two are K3 and K4. These 4 keys are the equivalent of Function keys on computers.

The remote digital readout will work plugged into any of the plugs IIRC. but you would typically use the 3rd one on the front of the unit.

Compensation does not car how you jack it up. You will have to have all 2/4 sensors on and they need to be able to "see" each other.

There is nothing special about doing a vehicle with smaller front wheels.

And I keep repeating, unless you physically drop the head on the ground 50 times, you cannot hurt this equipment. The plug ins are all universal and the sensors are pretty tough - Hunter makes good stuff.

DaveW

 

[Twistedgearhead]

I too have a G111 and optical heads
I have all the manuals if you need any info other than whats been said already.
cheap easy way to do a check without turntables is a section of newspaper
under each front wheel

I am restoring a g111 machine and could really use the manuals for it if you still have them.

 

[SoreBack]

Glad to find some info on these older machines. At the same time, still coming up short with enough info to get me going.

I picked up a K111 with great hopes. And then I drove it home 340 miles and opened the back panel. sigh. Not going to be any easy upgrades here. That aside, it is functional. Had one of the DSP200 heads not responding well at first, but after a good cleaning and jostling of wires got it back to life.

Last night I finally got a chance to play with it a bit. I used a later Hunter with the luxury of a lift in the past. And this one is quite a bit different than the WinAlign version. It all fires up on a floppy disk and all navigation is by the keys and a bit wonky in it's language. But getting it figured out.

So, here is where I am. I have yet to get compensation to work. I set up, hit the button on the heads, roll the car and got greens. And that is as far as I have gotten. On the computer side, there is just a text across the border that says "attach heads and compensate" but I have no idea what I am supposed to do with this once I get green lights. I hit one of the buttons on one of the heads and it went back to red light. Then I tried to start over. I am not getting any messages onscreen to proceed to anything.

I don't know what I am missing on this. I will go out again in a few and start over. Do some more digging in the menus to see if there as a page to begin compensation, or something.

Some of us need to get together and build an actual site for these. Be a shame if they just end up in a scrap heap. Operation and Maintenance manuals to download. What format the floppys need to copy, what machine to copy with, etc. That is more weeds to get into later.

Thanks in advance for anything you can throw me.

 

[SoreBack]

Just an update on getting compensation with the K111 and DSP200 Heads.

The steps I used. First. level floor, then make sure you don't have random stickers floating around in the optical heads.

Step one. Attach and level all heads.
Step two. click all the buttons and get a red flashing light.
Step three. unlock heads and roll car direction 1 until you get green light with red flashing.
Step four. Level and lock the heads, press the button again. Green goes away and red continues to flash (faster?)
Step five. Unlock heads and roll in direction 2 until you get Green light again.

I can't remember if I had to click again or I just got Green Light with Steady Red light at this point, but now it is compensated.

And now I can see my adjustments, still sorting out getting caster measurements, etc.

 

[39CAMC]

Just an update on getting compensation with the K111 and DSP200 Heads.

The steps I used. First. level floor, then make sure you don't have random stickers floating around in the optical heads.

Step one. Attach and level all heads.
Step two. click all the buttons and get a red flashing light.
Step three. unlock heads and roll car direction 1 until you get green light with red flashing.
Step four. Level and lock the heads, press the button again. Green goes away and red continues to flash (faster?)
Step five. Unlock heads and roll in direction 2 until you get Green light again.

I can't remember if I had to click again or I just got Green Light with Steady Red light at this point, but now it is compensated.

And now I can see my adjustments, still sorting out getting caster measurements, etc.

This is the correct procedure, but on a DSP200, it really is designed for jacking compensation not rolling. You aren't getting a good comp when the other 3 move at the same time.

DaveW

 

[SoreBack]

This is the correct procedure, but on a DSP200, it really is designed for jacking compensation not rolling. You aren't getting a good comp when the other 3 move at the same time.

DaveW

Thanks Dave. I will give the solo wheels a try tomorrow. In better days I had a lift and rolling jacks and could raise front and back at once. I finally got to the adjustment screens tonight. Not quite got the Caster / SAE figured out on this one yet. But I do still need to get my spin plates and a decent wheel lock.

The caster page says, "turn the wheel in the direction instructed" but then doesn't give me anything but the red bar with the arrow on one side. as soon as I move it to center, it puts the wheel off center goes green and that is it. Any more than that and I lose optical connection. and it doesn't give me any more instruction.

What am I missing here? Feel I got spoiled on winalign and that was way back in 99 or something.

 

[gnpenning]

Delete

 

[39CAMC]

Thanks Dave. I will give the solo wheels a try tomorrow. In better days I had a lift and rolling jacks and could raise front and back at once. I finally got to the adjustment screens tonight. Not quite got the Caster / SAE figured out on this one yet. But I do still need to get my spin plates and a decent wheel lock.

The caster page says, "turn the wheel in the direction instructed" but then doesn't give me anything but the red bar with the arrow on one side. as soon as I move it to center, it puts the wheel off center goes green and that is it. Any more than that and I lose optical connection. and it doesn't give me any more instruction.

What am I missing here? Feel I got spoiled on winalign and that was way back in 99 or something.

It has been a long time...but on every Hunter I have used since A111 days, it was turn to the left first. I don't remember if the older ones wanted it centered first or not.

Is the screen like this? https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCODtjrar3u8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAf

DaveW

 

[SoreBack]

It has been a long time...but on every Hunter I have used since A111 days, it was turn to the left first. I don't remember if the older ones wanted it centered first or not.


DaveW

Yes, I managed to get the toe reading up. It shows the caster, but not that I can trust it yet. I haven't had time to get back to it this week yet. When I go to the check caster (I think) sai, I get a single bar, the arrow is offset and in the red. It just kind of leaves me hanging there.

Jeff

 

[39CAMC]

Does the bar move when you turn the wheel back and forth?

DaveW