HVAC contractor pricing - no thanks

[jjrbus]

Like me a simple homeowner and not a skilled, highly trained HVAC professional who spent a couple hours on the net to familiarize himself with the in's and out's. Chatting with the guy in the fancy van who says he will ask what a Manual J is as soon as he gets back to the office. Points out an obviously crappy duct install with too small duct work and is informed that it is code and not a problem, they will seal it up. Asked for recommendations and one recommended ended up being arrested for fraud. How about the pro who told me if we do the job with a permit my tax will go up. My experience with HVAC companys has been dismal and I will bet a dollar to a doughnut that every replacement AC in my neighborhood is oversized.

I am sure that 80% of the worst companys are giving the rest a bad name!

So hours reading and watching videos, spent the money on the correct tool's and I will do my own installs and repairs. Purchased a hypersonic leak detector last year, way cheaper than paying gas and go Gary to come back 2 or 3 times in his spiffy looking wrapped white van.

 

[Just_Steve]

My question for all the DIY home not automotive A/C folks around here, where do you buy your refrigerant without a license? I have a Type II license so have no issues.

 

[4x4Pete]

People keeping harping on about "how much the market will bare" to justify price gouging. HVAC is not an "optional" thing. You NEED your heating system to work in the winter. People many areas of the country, especially the elderly, NEED their air conditioning to work in the summer. The "market will bare" incredible costs to replace or service these units, because their only other option is literally dying.

So that is the reason resi HVAC companies should run their business? Not for profit but the recognition that your saving people from dying? Sounds like a great business plan, how many investors do you think you'd get? Automatic central heating and cooling is barely 100 years old, who took care of these people before it was available? If the resi HVAC field were to follow the medical field to take care of people $30k for a simple furnace re and re(if there was such a thing) would be a  great deal!

 

[American Locomotive]

Your arguments are very weak. I never once implied that HVAC installers should be non-profits doing things out of the goodness of their hearts. I'm stating that HVAC installers do not follow "the rules of the free market" for a variety of reasons. There are high barriers to enter the market, so there are few "sellers" (relatively speaking). Buyers have little to no access to information regarding the equipment or services that will be performed, and individual sellers have huge influence on market prices.

When you're a family of 4 in the middle of winter and your furnace breaks, you don't have a choice. You will either freeze, or you will pay whatever the man wants.

That is not "free market". In a free market, I would be able to choose not to purchase that item, or choose from any number of vendors.

...and just to entertain what people did before "automatic heat"
1) People had fireplaces or woodstoves they used to keep warm
2) They tended to avoid living in areas like Phoenix that reach absurd temperatures in the summer, or places without any firewood or other available heat in the winter.
3) There was a lot of infrastructure and months of preparation for the winter
4) People died from temperature related issues all the time.

 

[Jim greengo]

No, it's not....

If you're working for somebody,and they send you to get a part.
Do you clock out and go get the part for free,and then clock back in when you get back?
Most people dont,but if you do I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love to hire you.
Or if you prefer I can just show up at the job,and see that you need a hot surface igniter.
Then I can hop in my truck and charge you for my time to drive and get the part and come back to install it if that seems more fair.
I keep lots of parts and tools on my truck as a convenience for myself mostly,so I don't to drop everything to go find parts.
Especially on nights and weekends,it also saves a lot of after hrs opening fees of $100.00 that a lot of supply houses charge.
So if somebody doesn't like the prices I charge,they can always get on the ol internet and order a hot surface igniter or cap or any other part they need and wait 3-4 days for it,and then go to you tube university and learn to install it.
But I don't reccomend doing that when it's a 105 or -30 below.
Ain't democracy great? Hahaha

 

[pcmeiners]

"I have a Type II license so have no issues."

If a DIY home owner will not get a license, then he has no option but to hire a licensed HVAC guy to remain legal. On the other hand the EPA 608 is a really easy test to get a universal, in the computer IT world the 608 would be a really easy certificate to obtain, a give away, compared to the IT engineering certs. Don't make like that license is so special.

 

[Jim greengo]

So that is the reason resi HVAC companies should run their business? Not for profit but the recognition that your saving people from dying? Sounds like a great business plan, how many investors do you think you'd get? Automatic central heating and cooling is barely 100 years old, who took care of these people before it was available? If the resi HVAC field were to follow the medical field to take care of people $30k for a simple furnace re and re(if there was such a thing) would be a  great deal!

I do plenty of freebie work for people who are even older than my old grumpy ***,and people with kids and other problems.
I will not not leave little old ladys/sick people/kids without lights/water/hvac as long as I'm still breathing.
The reason I can have extra parts to help out people who can't always afford it is,wait for it.(drum roll)
Is because I actually make money off of the other jobs I still do. Hahaha

 

[Jim greengo]

"I have a Type II license so have no issues."

If a DIY home owner will not get a license, then he has no option but to hire a licensed HVAC guy to remain legal. On the other hand the EPA 608 is a really easy test to get a universal, in the computer IT world the 608 would be a really easy certificate to obtain, a give away, compared to the IT engineering certs.

Anybody with 1/2 a brain can take a class and pass an epa test.
It's 1 thing to be able to pass a test,it's totally differant to be able to show up on the bad side of town and do the work though. Hahaha

 

[Jim greengo]

Like me a simple homeowner and not a skilled, highly trained HVAC professional who spent a couple hours on the net to familiarize himself with the in's and out's. Chatting with the guy in the fancy van who says he will ask what a Manual J is as soon as he gets back to the office. Points out an obviously crappy duct install with too small duct work and is informed that it is code and not a problem, they will seal it up. Asked for recommendations and one recommended ended up being arrested for fraud. How about the pro who told me if we do the job with a permit my tax will go up. My experience with HVAC companys has been dismal and I will bet a dollar to a doughnut that every replacement AC in my neighborhood is oversized.

I am sure that 80% of the worst companys are giving the rest a bad name!

So hours reading and watching videos, spent the money on the correct tool's and I will do my own installs and repairs. Purchased a hypersonic leak detector last year, way cheaper than paying gas and go Gary to come back 2 or 3 times in his spiffy looking wrapped white van.

Of course we all know that there are no bad/crooked/overpriced lawyers/accountants/realtors/drs/lawn guys/tree guys/painters/drug dealers/pharmacists.......... (insert your job here)out there.
It's only the guys who fix stuff in people's houses who are crooks. Hahaha

 

[Just_Steve]

"I have a Type II license so have no issues."

If a DIY home owner will not get a license, then he has no option but to hire a licensed HVAC guy to remain legal. On the other hand the EPA 608 is a really easy test to get a universal, in the computer IT world the 608 would be a really easy certificate to obtain, a give away, compared to the IT engineering certs. Don't make like that license is so special.

Compared to being a doctor your IT certs aint **** so what's your point?

 

[Jim greengo]

My question for all the DIY home not automotive A/C folks around here, where do you buy your refrigerant without a license? I have a Type II license so have no issues.

Good luck buying freon in a lot of places without a contractors license,as long as you have a pulse you can probably get it online though.

 

[Just_Steve]

Good luck buying freon in a lot of places without a contractors license,as long as you have a pulse you can probably get it online though.

Didn't know you could buy online never thought of that, thanks.

 

[engineer2]

My question for all the DIY home not automotive A/C folks around here, where do you buy your refrigerant without a license?

As an aside, back around 1990 Sam's Club used to sell jugs of R12 but you needed a license. I went to the youngest checkout girl and never got carded.

I inherited a jug of R22 from my dad, but my system pressures were fine last time I checked, so I've never had to use it. It's about due for replacement after 32 years. Works fine, but a future home buyer would want a newer system. I'll probably hire it out. I'm more comfortable with automotive work. I heard from neighbors quotes are running $7k-$10k for 100kBTU/3 ton.

Dad was a refrigeration engineer, so I've been around it all my life. For my 8th grade science fair project we built a heat pump together and I demonstrated how you could switch it back and forth. It baffled the teachers and I did get grilled by one dad who knew the business.

 

[danski0224]

If you're working for somebody,and they send you to get a part.
Do you clock out and go get the part for free,and then clock back in when you get back?
Most people dont,but if you do I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love to hire you.
Or if you prefer I can just show up at the job,and see that you need a hot surface igniter.
Then I can hop in my truck and charge you for my time to drive and get the part and come back to install it if that seems more fair.
I keep lots of parts and tools on my truck as a convenience for myself mostly,so I don't to drop everything to go find parts.
Especially on nights and weekends,it also saves a lot of after hrs opening fees of $100.00 that a lot of supply houses charge.
So if somebody doesn't like the prices I charge,they can always get on the ol internet and order a hot surface igniter or cap or any other part they need and wait 3-4 days for it,and then go to you tube university and learn to install it.
But I don't reccomend doing that when it's a 105 or -30 below.
Ain't democracy great? Hahaha

I thought the "lol" at the end would convey the dripping sarcasm...

 

[brewchief]

We are due for a new system one of these days. 100,000 BTU natural gas and 3 ton AC.
I'd like to move the condensing unit to the side of the house, but only have 36" from the side of the house to a sidewalk. Is that possible?
What magical refrigerant are they using these days?

I work for a Lennox dealer and we have some units that are 28"ish by 28"ish and can be set as close as 6" to a wall on one side, it's not exactly ideal but if the other side are clear it's not the end of the world and it does meet manufacturers specs.

 

[Jim greengo]

As an aside, back around 1990 Sam's Club used to sell jugs of R12 but you needed a license. I went to the youngest checkout girl and never got carded.

I inherited a jug of R22 from my dad, but my system pressures were fine last time I checked, so I've never had to use it. It's about due for replacement after 32 years. Works fine, but a future home buyer would want a newer system. I'll probably hire it out. I'm more comfortable with automotive work. I heard from neighbors quotes are running $7k-$10k for 100kBTU/3 ton.

Dad was a refrigeration engineer, so I've been around it all my life. For my 8th grade science fair project we built a heat pump together and I demonstrated how you could switch it back and forth. It baffled the teachers and I did get grilled by one dad who knew the business.

I'd run that r22 system as long as possible.

 

[Jim greengo]

I thought the "lol" at the end would convey the dripping sarcasm...

Sorry,missed it.
Old man gets on a roll sometimes. Hahaha

 

[Jim greengo]

I work for a Lennox dealer and we have some units that are 28"ish by 28"ish and can be set as close as 6" to a wall on one side, it's not exactly ideal but if the other side are clear it's not the end of the world and it does meet manufacturers specs.

As long as it gets airflow around it and can be cleaned/serviced run with it.

 

[bonneyman]

I'd run that r22 system as long as possible.

 

[Dagny]

Talk to friends and neighbors about finding a one man shop someone with a few gray hairs and an extremely overloaded truck. Refrigeration and HVAC is a science and needs to be studied not all guys put in the time to become good techs. There is a shortage of good trades people in all the trades. Our school closed the shop class down years ago and many people cant read a ruler, using a volt or amp meter to diagnose a furnace problem is a reach. In my area groups of investors are buying reputable companies and putting up dozens of billboards and screwing people find a smaller shop.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I hate to agree, but it is true!
I worked in HVAC for 20+ years. HVAC since COVID has gone nuts. I believe in part because they need more bodies in the trade. Shops are busy, so they charge what ever they want. Four years ago you could get a basic 70,000 BTU, 90% furnace and 14 SEER 2 ton AC installed for $7,500, Today you will be lucky to get it dine for under $10K. Equipment and material cost is up some, but not enough to justify a 40% - 50% increase.

You can look up prices on the internet, but a 70K BTU furnace is roughly $1,500, same as the AC, add a indoor coil, line set, some duct work, PVC for venting, and you might have $4,000. Then the dealer tacks on $6,000 more markup and for two guys and one day.

I remember doing a furnace for a guy, of course this is 15 years ago and we had less than $2,000 in the whole job and charged him $2,800.

Guess I did good paying 8k for my 5 ton heat pump setup for the shop at the end of 2020. That included insulated spiral ductwork like you see in restaurants

 

[danski0224]

I hate to agree, but it is true!
I worked in HVAC for 20+ years. HVAC since COVID has gone nuts. I believe in part because they need more bodies in the trade.

Shops are busy, so they charge what ever they want.

Isn't this capitalism?

Four years ago you could get a basic 70,000 BTU, 90% furnace and 14 SEER 2 ton AC installed for $7,500, Today you will be lucky to get it dine for under $10K. Equipment and material cost is up some, but not enough to justify a 40% - 50% increase.

You can look up prices on the internet, but a 70K BTU furnace is roughly $1,500, same as the AC, add a indoor coil, line set, some duct work, PVC for venting, and you might have $4,000. Then the dealer tacks on $6,000 more markup and for two guys and one day.

I remember doing a furnace for a guy, of course this is 15 years ago and we had less than $2,000 in the whole job and charged him $2,800.

More prices without a scope of work... I'm guessing a "box swap" with no changes?

Most places do not sell items at cost, there is a markup. Even the "DIY" A/C places online are not selling at cost, and the "free shipping" really isn't free.

I will say that wholesale prices have increased substantially since 2019. Even the thermostat that I use is up over 20%. Equipment is there or more. The supplier regularly raises prices annually, just because they can. This is in addition to any manufacturer price increases. Prices at the wholesaler I use are going up 4% in March.

If the shop retail labor rate is $200 an hour, then 16 man hours is $3,200.00.

I attended a HVAC business seminar almost 15 years ago, and they were suggesting $200 an hour back then.

25% markup on $4k in materials is $1,000.00. This isn't necessarily "profit", but more like "warranty costs" because the manufacturers don't pay **** for warranty on the equipment. Plenty of places are more than that- not limited to HVAC.

There's $4,200.00 of $6,000.00. That leaves $1,800.00. Not really a lot of money.

There might also be pickup time for materials before the job happens. The truck driver gets paid somehow... or the person keeping stock in the warehouse... the delivery of materials form the shop to the jobsite.

It isn't uncommon to add a small contingency fund to avoid having to ask the customer for a couple extra hundred bucks to cover something that went sideways on the job. Little stuff that adds time is easy to miss. I'm not talking about gross oversight.

The places around here that "don't charge extra for overtime and weekends" have to cover costs somehow, unless they are screwing with the employees and making them "cut hours" to avoid OT.

 

[Hank11]

If you get crazy quotes, keep looking.

I recently put in two minis (12 & 18k) into two different buildings. I was getting the crazy quotes, the highest being almost $20K for the pair. The people making the quotes were like a bunch of carnival barkers and complete sleazeball liars.

I kept looking and found a reputable long established business who quoted me a very respectable price for top end equipment - literally a third the highest quote. They showed up on time with a skilled and very pleasant crew of two and the owner supervising. I had pads and power ready for them. Got done about 2 in the afternoon. They were happy and I was happy. They made money. I saw the numbers and I felt good they made good money and delivered a good job.

The chain/franchise HVAC outfits are ******* bandits and should be scourged from the earth. Kid came out a few years ago and priced me $600.00 for a part that sells for $118.00. He wanted labor on top that was just as silly. Like I was born yesterday. I sent him packing. As he sadly walked away he asked if he could write me a quote for a new unit so he would get paid something for the trip. Apparently the assholes he worked for would not pay him for a trip where he didn’t sell something but gave a spiff when he did a written quote. I told him to find a decent job and get away from people like that, and let him give me the quote.

 

[PoorUB]

Isn't this capitalism?


More prices without a scope of work... I'm guessing a "box swap" with no changes?

Most places do not sell items at cost, there is a markup. Even the "DIY" A/C places online are not selling at cost, and the "free shipping" really isn't free.

I will say that wholesale prices have increased substantially since 2019. Even the thermostat that I use is up over 20%. Equipment is there or more. The supplier regularly raises prices annually, just because they can. This is in addition to any manufacturer price increases. Prices at the wholesaler I use are going up 4% in March.

If the shop retail labor rate is $200 an hour, then 16 man hours is $3,200.00.

I attended a HVAC business seminar almost 15 years ago, and they were suggesting $200 an hour back then.

25% markup on $4k in materials is $1,000.00. This isn't necessarily "profit", but more like "warranty costs" because the manufacturers don't pay **** for warranty on the equipment. Plenty of places are more than that- not limited to HVAC.

There's $4,200.00 of $6,000.00. That leaves $1,800.00. Not really a lot of money.

There might also be pickup time for materials before the job happens. The truck driver gets paid somehow... or the person keeping stock in the warehouse... the delivery of materials form the shop to the jobsite.

It isn't uncommon to add a small contingency fund to avoid having to ask the customer for a couple extra hundred bucks to cover something that went sideways on the job. Little stuff that adds time is easy to miss. I'm not talking about gross oversight.

The places around here that "don't charge extra for overtime and weekends" have to cover costs somehow, unless they are screwing with the employees and making them "cut hours" to avoid OT.

I am not faulting anyone about the pricing. If I had an HVAC shop I would be after the most profit too, but still keep a legitimate business.

I am simply saying that coats to the contractor have not jumped as much as the final cost to the consumer. There is more profit in it today than there was 4-5 years ago.

Keep in mind I still keep in contact with contractors in my area. Not one of them is complaining about making a profit and when I ask them about it the just smile! They all say it is a great time to be a contractor! Many of them have talked P&L percentages and the percentage is much better.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Good luck buying freon in a lot of places without a contractors license,as long as you have a pulse you can probably get it online though.

I got my last cylinder of R-22 in the Target parking lot.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

And the counterpoint is:

How can a homeowner be so stupid and actually believe that they are getting something of value for the advertised $19.95 - $49.95?

That isn't enough money to start the truck and drive it a few miles, much less do any work.

Yes, this is a deceptive practice and yes it gives the industry a black eye.

First, you can’t lay any of the blame for deceptive business practices on “gullible consumers who should know better.” That’s just straight up victim blaming.

Also you require way way way too much knowledge on the victim’s part. Why would an 80 year old lady know how much it costs to roll a truck?

 

[Jim greengo]

This is not a new phenomena.

HVAC markups have been near 100% with high labor costs for years...decades even.

The mom and pop shops I'm familiar with don't seem to be exactly getting rich at that price. The guys I know in the business work long hours....are super busy...and sometimes struggle to get paid for the work they've done, especially service work. It doesn't matter what you charge if the person you did the work for has no intention of paying you.

HOWEVER...my kids live in Indy....and up there they are dealing with these big HVAC companies and what they tell me is every service call or "tune up" special just ends up being a massive sales job where the tech uses fear tactics, gimicky sales promotions (10% off if you sign in the next 30 seconds) and outright fabrications to try to sell HUGE UNNECESSARY work to the homeowner.

Just one case for instance. My middle son had the "tune up special" on his furnace. They check it over and supposedly make sure it's good to go for winter. They guy spent the entire time trying to get him to sign off on buying an entirely new furnace....just based on:

1. His furnace is 20 years old so OBVIOUSLY it's going to fail soon.
2. The igniter on his furnace was generic and had been nutted on with wire connectors rather than the factory plug....which the tech said "Was 'home made junk' and 'totally out of code and unsafe'"

So on one hand, HVAC techs and Vet techs, and Auto Techs, and everyone else is free to price their services anyway they want to, and it's up to us as consumers to decide if that represents good value for us. But if a company is sending out techs (possibly on commission?) and trying to scare people into getting unnecessary or premature work done, that's horse ****. My kid is pretty sharp and sent the guy on his merry way and will NEVER call that company again, but you know a lot of old ladies out there would totally fall for this sort of thing and wind up paying way too much for work they don't even need.

Tell your son i said to tell that ***** #2 is a bunch of bs.
That's the way they're sold through the supply house,and it's not a freaking code violation!

 

[Jim greengo]

I am not faulting anyone about the pricing. If I had an HVAC shop I would be after the most profit too, but still keep a legitimate business.

I am simply saying that coats to the contractor have not jumped as much as the final cost to the consumer. There is more profit in it today than there was 4-5 years ago.

Keep in mind I still keep in contact with contractors in my area. Not one of them is complaining about making a profit and when I ask them about it the just smile! They all say it is a great time to be a contractor! Many of them have talked P&L percentages and the percentage is much better.

Material costs have gone up/fuel prices/labor costs
.........

 

[JohnC1957]

I was a licensed GC in Los Angeles now and had a list of smaller HVAC companies that were cost efficient and had fair pricing for good work. They exist you just have to find them. Maybe do a little searching around and ask people you know. I live in Nashville now and they exist here also. I would never call a HVAC company that advertises heavily.

 

[toyotadriver]

Clearly the HVAC people are making gobs of money. So, if you want to make gobs of money too then go into the business and then you too can make gobs of money!!




Nothing in this post should be misunderstood, interpreted, misinterpreted, or construed to be of a political nature.

 

[4x4Pete]

Letting someone who isn't part of your business team tell you how much you should make for profit is ridiculous. Especially customers.

 

[toyotadriver]

People keeping harping on about "how much the market will bare" to justify price gouging. HVAC is not an "optional" thing. You NEED your heating system to work in the winter. People many areas of the country, especially the elderly, NEED their air conditioning to work in the summer. The "market will bare" incredible costs to replace or service these units, because their only other option is literally dying.

I guess all these people should have gone into the HVAC business too. Apparently they didn’t plan well. Failing to plan is planning to fail.



Nothing in this post should be misunderstood, interpreted, misinterpreted, or construed to be of a political nature.

 

[danski0224]

Good luck buying freon in a lot of places without a contractors license,as long as you have a pulse you can probably get it online though.

Not all places require a contractor license for HVAC.

In Illinois, only Roofers, Plumbers and Electricians require State licenses. (So, they must be getting Stupid Rich).

Anyone with a clapped out van, freezon, broken gauges and tin snips can do HVAC.

If the job is 100% above board, the (any) contractor is required to be registered with the particular municipality, and pay all fees and provide proof of insurance- these things are required to pull a permit. Contractor is typically defined as someone performing work for a fee. I have seen catch all language that requires contracts of or exceeding $500.00 to have a permit pulled, even though the type of work is not specifically categorized (painting or cabinet refacing as examples).

HVAC supply houses in my area only care about EPA certification to purchase refrigerant. Not all know the difference between Mobile and not.

I honestly wish that some sort of State license was required to do HVAC work in Illinois. I don't know if it would fix the problems associated with ****** work, though.

I have seen plenty of ****** work done by licensed roofers, so there's that.

Some of the ****** work issues seem to be being addressed at the local level with increased scrutiny at the permit application process (requiring Manual J, D, S) and during inspections. The municipality still seems to be immune from errors on their oversight, though.

 

[ALinCarolina]

Locally there are two big HVAC companies. They advertise on TV and radio all the time and have been buying out a lot of other smaller HVAC companies. We had a honest and dependable local company that the owner was retiring and sold to them. A lot of the techs quit and one of the techs that I know and had used put out the info about where they would be working going forward. He and the other techs objected to the new owner's business model that switched them to commission and pushed them to sell replacements. Have to admire his honesty and integrity and will definitely follow him to the new company he went to.

 

[danski0224]

buying out a lot of other smaller HVAC companies.

This is happening in my area also. Different names, held by one entity.

He and the other techs objected to the new owner's business model that switched them to commission and pushed them to sell replacements. Have to admire his honesty and integrity

Good luck to him.

"Selling Technician" has been the norm in my area for many years in the non-union residential HVAC market if one is working for someone else.

 

[jkeyser14]

High seer inverter equipment isn't serviced like a 14 seer single speed compressor. Service person has more training, the company has to make the commitment for training , computer, programming that changes 2-3 year needing it for evening added refrigerant. A good relationship with the local distributor if there's a problem. This equipment doesn't really have any generic parts in them. All motors are ecm everything comes out of one main board in the condenser. So unless you know a trained service person good luck if there's a problem.

Unless there's only one HVAC company in your town then nobody gives a poop who installed your equipment when they go to service it.

Also, none of that training is needed for the initial install which doesn't different from any lower seer unit. These products are basically plug and play.

 

[danski0224]

First, you can’t lay any of the blame for deceptive business practices on “gullible consumers who should know better.” That’s just straight up victim blaming.

I do not think so.

While I do not expect a customer to know the ins and outs of everything, the old adage that "nothing is free" should come to mind. No different from "free shipping" on a HVAC equipment order from an online vendor- the shipping cost is buried in the price, somehow.

The expectation of receiving a "HVAC check" that is legitimate for $19.95 is totally unrealistic. It falls squarely in the "something for nothing" quandary and the person buying it should stop and think.

Also you require way way way too much knowledge on the victim’s part. Why would an 80 year old lady know how much it costs to roll a truck?

I wouldn't, but expecting to receive a legitimate service, in one's home, for the obscenely low numbers advertised should, in and of itself, become a huge red flag. And the problem is not limited to 80 year old ladies.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Two of my buddys are HVAC guys and they‘ve got stupid money. They’ve been making bank for years. The markup and what they charge for labor must be insane.

My neighbor buddy owns his hvac company, he is the only worker, he is lazy, hasn’t worked the last two weeks, don’t know how he don’t die of boredom, I’m retired and I hate having one day of doing nothing.

 

[American Locomotive]

I guess all these people should have gone into the HVAC business too. Apparently they didn’t plan well. Failing to plan is planning to fail.

Classic "victim blaming". Many people have a modest "rainy day" savings to handle reasonable household emergencies. Most people DON'T have a rainy day fund that can easily take a $15-20,000 hit when their boiler lets go on the coldest week of the year. This is especially true for retired elderly the rely on monthly Social Security/Pension/Retirement checks.

Clearly the HVAC people are making gobs of money. So, if you want to make gobs of money too then go into the business and then you too can make gobs of money!!

That is my point. The HVAC industry is not a "free market". It has, artificial, very high barriers to entry to running your own business. It *might* be tolerable if the system reliably and consistently produced good techs, but it doesn't. The test (at least in this state) is also a joke.

 

[PoorUB]

Locally there are two big HVAC companies. They advertise on TV and radio all the time and have been buying out a lot of other smaller HVAC companies. We had a honest and dependable local company that the owner was retiring and sold to them. A lot of the techs quit and one of the techs that I know and had used put out the info about where they would be working going forward. He and the other techs objected to the new owner's business model that switched them to commission and pushed them to sell replacements. Have to admire his honesty and integrity and will definitely follow him to the new company he went to.

The huge HVAC conglomerates that are sucking up the smaller shops are very cut throat. Many of them put minimum sales requirements for techs. I often hear the management requires $1,000 of parts alone per day average. I was a service tech and could go days and not sell anything close to this number. Management tells the techs to not repair anything, push hard for replacement, and they get a commission on leads. They will go to a service call and are expected to call a salesman to come close the deal. Of course the salesmen that do well are vultures and push hard for the sale.

There are shops that guarantee a time they will be by. Funny as these are the vultures. But they say they will stop by at a certain time, troubleshoot the equipment, write up a quote and charge a $50 diagnostic fee. If the customer wants it repaired most times they have to come back as the tech has another stop he has to be at. There prices are typically 2X higher than average. I have seen quotes for a simple motor replacement for $800 that another shop did for under $400 and he felt like he was high priced.

I know shops that sold R410 to customers for $100 a pound when it was $2 wholesale. Many shops were in the $10 a pound area. Of course the typical homeowner has no clue what refrigerant costs are, but they do hear how the PA is outlawing a refrigerant and prices are going up so they figure it is the way it is. Especially after the tech reinforces that thought.

We have there or four large residential shops in town. Fortunately they are employee owned so they are not completely nuts, but they are still higher priced than average. We also have several smaller shops, maybe up to 5-6 employees total.