Hybrid water heater

[jjgrappler]

My ge hybrid water heater may be on its last leg. I may be looking for a new hybrid water heater, I use a hybrid because it dehumidifies my basement as well as heats my water so thats what I want. It seems this water heater struggles sometimes to keep up with water needs its 50 gallons and when 3 people shower in a row it struggles. Are the newer ones more efficient or would I be better served getting a 80 gallon one for added capacity. Any brands recommended? I've looked at Rheem and AO Smith, both look good.

 

[Copymutt]

Consecutive showers might benefit from a flow restrictor in the shower head. Had one since the Carter administration. Cant imagine how much electricity its saved. Good ones will perform w/ little or no notice by users.

 

[larry4406]

We installed a Rheem 80 gallon hybrid unit in May 2020 and have been very happy with it.

I leave it in heatpump only mode and raised the temperature to 140F to increase capacity after dilution/tempering at point of use. Family of 4 adults. On rare extreme water use, the capacity is depleted and I use the phone app to switch it to high demand mode to enable the resistance elements and then watch the energy use increase.

 

[billp603]

I have the AO Smith 50 gallon hybrid, installed in 2019, very happy with the energy savings. but wish I had gone with the 66 or even 80 gallon to give a bit more capacity. Works well unless anyone in your household takes a bath, then it's a quite long recovery time. It replaced an AO Smith 60 gallon conventional that had lasted almost 30 years, so that's why I chose to keep that brand

 

[jjgrappler]

Consecutive showers might benefit from a flow restrictor in the shower head. Had one since the Carter administration. Cant imagine how much electricity its saved. Good ones will perform w/ little or no notice by users.

Do you have a recommendation for one?

 

[jjgrappler]

Also the wetspot under the unit got bigger overnight so its looking like it's about done

 

[Copymutt]

This is similar to what we have, provides choices of restriction. Minimal skills required.
Hard water will eventually cause build up, but it’s easy to clean. Nothing high tech here.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PFQRPF7/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Jackfre]

You can go two ways here. The larger unit or try to bring the load back to the capacity of the 50, meaning reduce the flow in the showers that you don’t use. Some of the better kitchen and bath showrooms have shower walls where they display an assortment of shower heads so you can see how they perform

 

[American Locomotive]

We have the Rheem Hybrid 50 gallon and it works fine with 3 people showering in a row. We do have it set to 130°F instead of the default 120 though. Seems to help significantly.

 

[jcarapet]

Got a Rheem 65 to replace a 40 gallon unit. Had to crank up to 130 for wifes super hot, super deep bathtub but was super easy with smartphone app. Noticed ~$20-$30 less a month on the electric bill. Buddy who is way more into this says Rheem or bust.

Home store has good ones, but I went with a plumber as they had access to the trade only one with brass fittings.

 

[jshillin]

I put in a Rheem Hybrid 80 and it's been great. I also have it set to 130 degrees and it handles several showers in a row.

 

[shade]

Go tankless and you never have to worry about running out of water, or heating water not being used

 

[yeldogt]

We have the Rheem Hybrid 50 gallon and it works fine with 3 people showering in a row. We do have it set to 130°F instead of the default 120 though. Seems to help significantly.

Most likely what I am going to try ... my new beach condos don't have the height for the larger ones.

 

[toyotadriver]

We have a Rheem 50 gallon in the garage. It really saves money on heating water. We also have a propane water heater in series after the heat pump water heater. So, we have 90 gallons of hot water on tap. The propane water heater is set on about 125*. The heat pump water heater is set on 118* in the summer and 110* in the winter. We use very little propane to heat the water with but if the power goes out, we have a power free way to heat water.

 

[chipdog4]

I have the AO Smith 50 gallon hybrid, installed in 2019, very happy with the energy savings. but wish I had gone with the 66 or even 80 gallon to give a bit more capacity. Works well unless anyone in your household takes a bath, then it's a quite long recovery time. It replaced an AO Smith 60 gallon conventional that had lasted almost 30 years, so that's why I chose to keep that brand

Can you guesstimate what is the recovery time?
I've got an 11 year old 80 gallon electric and when the wife takes a bath and I want to shower an hour later, I've only got a 5-10 minutes of hot water.

Also, how noisy are the heat pumps?

 

[mike93lx]

Go tankless and you never have to worry about running out of water, or heating water not being used

Someone picking a heat pump likely doesn't have gas. Have you ever looked at the power demands of an electric on demand water heater? They can be up to 160a @ 240v

 

[Showkey]

Go tankless and you never have to worry about running out of water, or heating water not being used

The there’s the issues of:

long wait for hot water at distant faucets
Power or fuel cost might actually increase not decrease
added cost of regular maintenance especially with hard water
added complexity of the unit…….service and parts cost
tank service life 10 years……….tankless half that life
high cost of install…….plus new gas or electric service
might increase use so sewer and water cost increase


Long story short tankless are NOT living up to the hype.

 

[shade]

The there’s the issues of:

long wait for hot water at distant faucets
Power or fuel cost might actually increase not decrease
added cost of regular maintenance especially with hard water
added complexity of the unit…….service and parts cost
tank service life 10 years……….tankless half that life
high cost of install…….plus new gas or electric service
might increase use so sewer and water cost increase


Long story short tankless are NOT living up to the hype.

You should do your home work. Tankless have a service life of 20 years or more.
Units are very simple. A burner and heat exchanger.

 

[shade]

Someone picking a heat pump likely doesn't have gas. Have you ever looked at the power demands of an electric on demand water heater? They can be up to 160a @ 240v

That I could understand. I assumed natural gas was accessible and hence the recommendation

 

[mike93lx]

That I could understand. I assumed natural gas was accessible and hence the recommendation

There are always exceptions, but I doubt there are many people choosing a hybrid over gas for water heating.

 

[American Locomotive]

Honestly, hybrid water heaters compare very favorably even to natural gas. You crunch the numbers, and per gallon of hot water, Hybrid water heaters are usually about $50 per year cheaper to operate than a standard natural gas heater.

The tankless heaters and the newer condensing storage tank water heaters close that cost gap though.

 

[mike93lx]

Honestly, hybrid water heaters compare very favorably even to natural gas. You crunch the numbers, and per gallon of hot water, Hybrid water heaters are usually about $50 per year cheaper to operate than a standard natural gas heater.

The tankless heaters and the newer condensing storage tank water heaters close that cost gap though.

No argument there, except that the up front cost is higher.

I want to move away from natural gas, where possible. Eventually I will update all my hvac with heat pumps and the same goes for the water heater, even if it doesn't generate a ROI.

My last house had a 96% gas furnace and a super insulated storage tank. Heating, hot water and cooking cost only 1200 a year, in new England. But the cost of the system was not low

 

[Showkey]

You should do your home work. Tankless have a service life of 20 years or more.
Units are very simple. A burner and heat exchanger.

Flow sensors
Flow control
variable burner
super heated water……..cause the scale issue

Then just search the GJ or other forums ………….where they say never again

Heat pump water heater has merit ………but still to turns a simple water heater into complex box with the HP hardware and electronics.

 

[mike93lx]

Flow sensors
Flow control
variable burner

Yeah, there is nothing simple about them

 

[yeldogt]

We have a Rheem 50 gallon in the garage. It really saves money on heating water. We also have a propane water heater in series after the heat pump water heater. So, we have 90 gallons of hot water on tap. The propane water heater is set on about 125*. The heat pump water heater is set on 118* in the summer and 110* in the winter. We use very little propane to heat the water with but if the power goes out, we have a power free way to heat water.

why not raise the temp in the hp tank ..... it's a safer way to operate and will greatly increase the output. my indirects are set at 150 in the winter

 

[yeldogt]

Honestly, hybrid water heaters compare very favorably even to natural gas. You crunch the numbers, and per gallon of hot water, Hybrid water heaters are usually about $50 per year cheaper to operate than a standard natural gas heater.

The tankless heaters and the newer condensing storage tank water heaters close that cost gap though.

Lots of variables ... we have .20 electric and even at 3COP gas wins --- not by a huge amount. I get your point -- for those with traditional tanks it's often the way to go.

where it gets odd is where the HP is cooling a space in the winter.

 

[American Locomotive]

At 3 COP, gas would win. However, pretty much all of the modern HP WHs are pushing 4 COP or higher. Pretty amazing, really.

...and yes. If the WH is in conditioned space, than you winter hot water heating costs will effectively be whatever your primary heat source is. Something to consider for sure. However, the modern HP WHs can run down to like 36°F ambients, so you could just duct the inlet outside if you live in an area with a mild winter. Otherwise the optimal place for a HP WH is in an unheated basement.

 

[toyotadriver]

why not raise the temp in the hp tank ..... it's a safer way to operate and will greatly increase the output. my indirects are set at 150 in the winter

The cold water flows into the heat pump water heater, is preheated, then flows into the propane water heater. The propane water heater is set at roughly 125*. I want the propane water heater to run occasionally but not much. In the summer, the heat pump water heater has plenty of heat to use from the vehicles in the garage. In the winter, there's still heat to use but there's much less. So, in the winter I set it at about 110* and in the summer, it's set at 118*. Uses very little propane but uses a little more in the winter. With 40 gallons of hot water in the propane water heater and 50 gallons of "almost hot water" in the heat pump water heater, that's TONS of water for two people....and still plenty we have guests spending the night. If we have plenty of hot water now, there's no reason we would need to raise the temp. Heating it hotter would just be a waste of energy. We don't need more output.

 

[mike93lx]

The cold water flows into the heat pump water heater, is preheated, then flows into the propane water heater. The propane water heater is set at roughly 125*. I want the propane water heater to run occasionally but not much. In the summer, the heat pump water heater has plenty of heat to use from the vehicles in the garage. In the winter, there's still heat to use but there's much less. So, in the winter I set it at about 110* and in the summer, it's set at 118*. Uses very little propane but uses a little more in the winter. With 40 gallons of hot water in the propane water heater and 50 gallons of "almost hot water" in the heat pump water heater, that's TONS of water for two people....and still plenty we have guests spending the night. If we have plenty of hot water now, there's no reason we would need to raise the temp. Heating it hotter would just be a waste of energy. We don't need more output.

I would hate to see what is growing in your tank that is a perfect temp for bacteria to breed

 

[yeldogt]

The cold water flows into the heat pump water heater, is preheated, then flows into the propane water heater. The propane water heater is set at roughly 125*. I want the propane water heater to run occasionally but not much. In the summer, the heat pump water heater has plenty of heat to use from the vehicles in the garage. In the winter, there's still heat to use but there's much less. So, in the winter I set it at about 110* and in the summer, it's set at 118*. Uses very little propane but uses a little more in the winter. With 40 gallons of hot water in the propane water heater and 50 gallons of "almost hot water" in the heat pump water heater, that's TONS of water for two people....and still plenty we have guests spending the night. If we have plenty of hot water now, there's no reason we would need to raise the temp. Heating it hotter would just be a waste of energy. We don't need more output.

you want a hotter temp to kill anything in the tank ...

 

[toyotadriver]

you want a hotter temp to kill anything in the tank ...

It flows into the propane tank and is heated hotter. It's been working fantastic for the past 6 years. Think I'll just keep doing what we are doing.

 

[mike93lx]

It flows into the propane tank and is heated hotter. It's been working fantastic for the past 6 years. Think I'll just keep doing what we are doing.

Under 120 is not hot enough to be safe, but why ever change, right ?

Hopefully no one gets sick

 

[yeldogt]

It flows into the propane tank and is heated hotter. It's been working fantastic for the past 6 years. Think I'll just keep doing what we are doing.

The general recommendation is at least 130 ... when I lived in Germany the Buderus controls would heat the indirect to 150 once a month as that area had a water supply like NYC. I keep a high temp on my house with well water -- it has the same sanitization cycle (most german boilers do)

 

[Bretny]

My GE HP water heater lasted about 11yrs on a 10yr warranty. The tank got a hole around the lower element..that I never even used. Got a Rehm, it has alot more info and even an App. How much more efficient it is idk.

 

[billp603]

Can you guesstimate what is the recovery time?
I've got an 11 year old 80 gallon electric and when the wife takes a bath and I want to shower an hour later, I've only got a 5-10 minutes of hot water.

Also, how noisy are the heat pumps?

If you use the full tank of hot water, and run it in hybrid mode, the electric heaters will kick on and in 60 minutes you'll have similar, 5-10 minutes, probably 2 hours for full recovery. Doesn't bother me too much as I only take 5-7 min showers.
Ours is in the basement, so noise is not an issue, I'd say it's about the same as a small refrigerator running, quieter than a window AC.

 

[toby267]

Consider raising the temperature of the water to 130 or 140, and adding a mixing valve to temper the hot water output to the fixtures. You will actually use less hot water per shower, but since it is hotter, it will last longer.

 

[larry4406]

Consider raising the temperature of the water to 130 or 140, and adding a mixing valve to temper the hot water output to the fixtures. You will actually use less hot water per shower, but since it is hotter, it will last longer.

Ours is set at 140F and we just dilute at point of use.

 

[Sumboodie]

The there’s the issues of:

long wait for hot water at distant faucets
Power or fuel cost might actually increase not decrease
added cost of regular maintenance especially with hard water
added complexity of the unit…….service and parts cost
tank service life 10 years……….tankless half that life
high cost of install…….plus new gas or electric service
might increase use so sewer and water cost increase


Long story short tankless are NOT living up to the hype.

Not to say that a tankless is best for your application, but much of those statements are incorrect.

Once the heater detects flow, it fires. It's not really any different than any setup, if a faucet is from from the heater, it's going to take a bit to get hot water, regardless of the heat source. In my old house, the kitchen was the furthest from the boiler and the pex ran in the slab. If water hadn't been used all day, it would take a good 2-3 minutes before getting hot water.

If you have hard water, it's bad for everything using water, to include your clothes, dishes, body, cars, etc. Water softeners aren't that expensive.

Cleaning the unit out annually isn't a cost. Just an hour or so of time.

They are actually fairly simple. Most techs are used to working on them. The old 400lb boilers and tank water heaters are becoming relics of the past. Most new construction has "combi" units.
Can't blame a builder either. ~$2500-3k and you have heat for the house and hot water.

Most tankless units last at least 15 years. If they truly sucked, they wouldn't be getting used all over the place.

I've constantly been told they don't have the "power" to heat cold water. My water is about 36*, to the point that if I put a pitcher of water in the fridge, it would warm it up. I can set my boiler high enough that I can run a pressure washer off it and steam clean stuff.

 

[Showkey]

^^^^^^^^^Own one in a Florida 3 bedroom condo,
The long wait for hot water is huge problem.
The maintenance is a head ache……….costly if you don’t do it DIY.

The only reason it’s not been replaced is not used continuously ( vacation) and there’s limited space in the condo.

 

[shade]

Showkey you could always use a recirc pump if the long wait times are bothersome.