Hybrid welder?

[Ike Carlson]

I was just wondering, for curiosity's sake, if a guy could run a 120v mig welder with a dc buzz box? The feeder would still run on the 120v plug, and the buzz box lead hooked to the gun. I don't know how the amp ratings work on mig guns. As long as any leads were properly capped/isolated/insulated, it should work, right? Just something I was pondering after having my supper..... I have no need or desire to do it, just wondering out of curiosity.

 

[nadogail]

I think you could, if you would want to is another question. How do you intend to coordinate the inert gas and the wire feed with the welding current?

Will you be using Rube Goldberg to handle the coordination?

 

[Ike Carlson]

In the 2.8 minutes I thought about it, I figured the mig trigger would still control the drive rolls and current contactor, and the wire would be flux core. Like I said, it was a fleeting thought while I thought about what parts I need to turn my stick into tig.

 

[Walkers]

No, abuzz box is the wrong type of power, it is a constant current (CC) power source, a mug welder uses constant voltage(CV) power.

 

[lowrollin70gmc]

It won’t work on a buzz box. Stick welding is a constant current process where MIG is constant voltage.

Edit: Walkers beat me to it.

 

[Ike Carlson]

Why the difference? What determines cc vs cv?

 

[brownbagg]

not a mig welder but a tig welder you can with a dc buzz box, it be a scratch starter

 

[Ike Carlson]

not a mig welder but a tig welder you can with a dc buzz box, it be a scratch starter

That's what I am working on, but the thought I posted about was for mig.

I have a miller thunderbolt 200/300 amp ac/dc unit and want to use it for tig. I figured I'd get some dinse connectors and mount them in the case for easy setup/swap between stick and tig. Doable?

 

[American Locomotive]

Why the difference? What determines cc vs cv?

CC vs CV is determined by the electronics inside the box.

The voltage basically determines how long the arc is (or vice versa). With a TIG or Stick setup - the operator controls voltage by how close or far they hold the electrode from the work. If the operator pulls the torch (or rod) further away from the work piece, the welder automatically adjusts voltage because current stays the same. On a MIG, the operator basically has no way to control the arc length. Instead, you set the arc length by adjusting the voltage knob. The welder will vary the current to maintain a specific voltage (arc length). The faster you feed wire in, the more current the welder has to put into the wire to keep the arc a certain length (voltage).

TIG and Stick are both constant current, so you can use the same power supply for both.

 

[lowrollin70gmc]

The physics and reasoning are beyond my ability to explain, so here’s Lincoln’s take on it:

Constant Current vs Constant Voltage Output

Constant Current vs Constant Voltage Output

www.lincolnelectric.com

There are many welding power sources that can do either CC or CV depending on process selected. I used to do this with welder/generators and a suitcase MIG gun.


What you want to do with your AC/DC machine is exactly how I learned to TIG stainless while working in industrial plants. Same welder, just swapped ground and hot lead (TIG is electrode negative) and scratch started. My current personal TIG setup is similar, but I can run a pedal when I want to (older Maxstar 200).

 

[Ike Carlson]

Thanks.

What size tig torch should I get? I need to do some body work (thin toyota steel) and stainless fab (mostly 1/8-3/16, but maybe 1/4").

 

[Ike Carlson]

Also, would 30' of 10 gauge be ok for a power cord?

 

[Feralghoul88]

Just do it and let us know if it works.....

 

[Ike Carlson]

Just do it and let us know if it works.....

 

[Feralghoul88]

Dont be a chicken.

 

[lowrollin70gmc]

I use an 150 amp air cooled torch body. Size it to what you think you’ll be doing, as the lower amperage ones are easier to maneuver and cheaper to purchase, but don’t handle the amperage for thick materials. An equipment sizing guide is 1 amp per thousandth for mild steel and 2/3 amp per thousandth for stainless.

Scratch start TIG isn’t ideal for body work, as you can’t lower the current once the arc is started like a pedal machine, helpful to reduce heat input for thin materials. Not impossible to do, but more difficult.

Thicker stainless, it’ll work well once you dial in your amperage and technique.

 

[lowrollin70gmc]

Also, would 30' of 10 gauge be ok for a power cord?

Power cord for the welder to outlet or as a welding lead?

I’m not well versed on the 120/240VAC side, but that seems reasonable to me.

That would be pretty light on the TIG lead side. I would suggest using a quick connect directly on the purchased TIG whip (most come with 10 to 15 feet of whip (gas line and power cord together in a bundle). This allows you to hook right to the machine or use normal welding lead with quick connects to get further from the power unit.

I also glanced at your machine specs, you could leave the ground electrode without a quick connect and not have to deal with swapping it to the positive side as that machine has DCEN and DCEP selections.

 

[Ike Carlson]

Power cord for the welder to outlet or as a welding lead?

I’m not well versed on the 120/240VAC side, but that seems reasonable to me.

That would be pretty light on the TIG lead side. I would suggest using a quick connect directly on the purchased TIG whip (most come with 10 to 15 feet of whip (gas line and power cord together in a bundle). This allows you to hook right to the machine or use normal welding lead with quick connects to get further from the power unit.

I also glanced at your machine specs, you could leave the ground electrode without a quick connect and not have to deal with swapping it to the positive side as that machine has DCEN and DCEP selections.

10 gauge as the power supply to wall cord, yes. I found a 30 foot chunk of 10 ga locally and it is affordable.

 

[TractorJeff]

Yes on the 10ga cord as it is related to Duty Cycle.
My Air Tig, On the Thunderbolt I had, you swap your connectors at the machine.

 

[Walkers]

It won’t work on a buzz box. Stick welding is a constant current process where MIG is constant voltage.

Edit: Walkers beat me to it.

Only by seconds!

 

[Ike Carlson]

Thanks. I used the thunderbolt today for stick welding a 7-bar stainless intake grate for the neighbor's jet boat. It worked well. I had never used stainless rod before. I am going to make another grate for my boat and will likely use regular steel and mig weld it. Stainless is finicky. I have 9 hours in this one, but I feel like it should have been 3 or 4.

I'll grind the welds and bars tomorrow to reduce turbulence. Then it goes on the boat for a test run.