Hydraulic fitting assistance needed

[skeer]

Ok so I have a Cub Cadet 3184 with the front angling kit, who ruptured one of the flex lines a few weeks back. Long story/Short it's been kinked a couple times due to getting caught on the plow mount when I went to turn it full bore the opposite direction.

Anyway.. I bought a line from tractor which is perfect except it's male-male NTP and the cylinder wants flare. So I tried talking to Grangers new chatbot to no avail.. Googled my *** off and also found nothing really. So I wanted to ask you fellows. Some people might ask "Why don't you just buy a replacement host from CC/MTD?" Well the answer to that it I don;t feel like spending north of a hundred bucks.

Anyway the OEM fitting straight off the cylinder is 1/4" 90* elbow, male NTP to male SAE flare. I've been trying to find either: A. female SAE flare to female NTP coupler/twist or B. male NTP to female NPT.

When searching there's these other terms like JIC.. and I swear I saw one with two C's in the abbreviation. I "believe" this is something that might work: https://a.co/d/iVUZVf1

 

[PCustoms]

That's a lot of text...

Post picture of fittings you're trying to connect to.

Telling us the PN of the hose you're replacing or the model of the attachment would be helpful too.

Best bet may be to take old hose into a hydraulic shop and have one made on the spot.

 

[BukitCase]

I've bought close to $3k in hydraulics from Discount (the amazon link) with NO PROBLEMS, but you can't seem to get to them thru the amazon link - here's how to make SURE you're getting the right stuff -

Discount Hydraulic Hose | Your Online Hydraulic Shop

So far (over 10 years) I've not been disappointed, either in products OR help.

And another valuable tool

FREE Thread ID Guide here - hydraulic

BTW, it's "NPT", whitch stands for National Pipe Thread - Best of luck... Steve

Also, the Amazon link looks to be what you want, as long as you don't ALSO want a hose...

 

[PCustoms]

Also, the Amazon link looks to be what you want, as long as you don't ALSO want a hose...

Likely not even close, and no way to tell, based on the OP description

 

[Spareparts]

They make adapters to change NPT to what ever you need

 

[Wrench97]

Have a local hydro hose shop? They will probably have a adapter from pipe to flare.

 

[PCustoms]

Have a local hydro hose shop? They will probably have a adapter from pipe to flare.

If he's going to a shop be easier to have them just make the hose.

Last I looked the tractor supply hoses were not high quality or low priced either

 

[The Cobbler]

Yeah, I would take the original hose to a real hose shop & ask them to make one

 

[jblnut]

If you want to hunt around online I’ve ordered thousands in hydraulics stuff from Surplus Center and have had zero issues. They have lots and lots of fittings and adapters. I’d be surprised if they don’t have what you’re looking for.

 

[andyvh1959]

Any Parker Store in your area will be able to help (I just retired from 30 years with Parker) as they feature all the common hydraulic connections. However, they sell at Parker retail pricing, so the cost is higher, as is the quality. If you want to convert the adapter at the cylinder port from NPT to Flare its easiest to go from NPT to Male Flare (JIC), which is a Parker 4CTX-S. From that its easy to connect a straight female flare hose end.

If you want a female JIC to male NPT adapter, well good luck. Its out there but not all too common. McMaster Carr is a decent source for all sorts of hydraulic adapters and connections and the pricing is reasonable, ships within days at most. I have bought adapter products from McMaster Carr in the past with no issues.

 

[skeer]

For all the suggestions on going to a Hydro shop and getting the parts or a hose made.. I would have done that if there was one within an hour from me.

Here's the partstree link to a replacement hose: https://www.partstree.com/parts/cub-cadet-727-3158/

Part number 11 is the SAE flare elbow I'm needing to attach the hose to.

And yeah @BukitCase Random dislexia on abbreviations sometimes

 

[PCustoms]

For all the suggestions on going to a Hydro shop and getting the parts or a hose made.. I would have done that if there was one within an hour from me.

Here's the partstree link to a replacement hose: https://www.partstree.com/parts/cub-cadet-727-3158/

Part number 11 is the SAE flare elbow I'm needing to attach the hose to.

And yeah @BukitCase Random dislexia on abbreviations sometimes

That looks like an sae to JIC fitting.

I suggest returning the hose to tractor supply, it's completely wrong and will need a mess of adapters

What is the PN of the hose you're trying to replace

 

[skeer]

correct me if Im wrong but isnt one difference between JIC and SAE the threads? Like course versus a more finer type? Was trying to find comparisons last night and all the pics made it seem as though SAE had courser and lesser threads than JIC.

The PN of the hose is in that link.. if you are wanting specs or even pictures of the OEM hose good luck. They don;t seem to exist online except for used sales.

 

[andyvh1959]

Again, that looks like a -4 JIC male to 1/4" male NPT adapter (assuming there is no o-ring on the adapter into the cylinder port). So that would match to a Parker 4CTX-S adapter.

Any adapter configuration can be found on Parker's Fitting Finder app (free). Here is the 1/4 NPT male to -4 JIC female: https://parkerfittingfinder.com/part/undefined?fittingScreen=details

FittingFinder

parkerfittingfinder.com

I can say for certain the male pipe to female JIC 90 is an odd special adapter, not comminly available. If you already have male JIC on the adapter and on the hose end, then you'd need a straight JIC female to male adapter, which is a: https://parkerfittingfinder.com/part/undefined?fittingScreen=details

 

[PCustoms]

correct me if Im wrong but isnt one difference between JIC and SAE the threads? Like course versus a more finer type? Was trying to find comparisons last night and all the pics made it seem as though SAE had courser and lesser threads than JIC.

One difference, yes. Flare angle is also different.

The PN of the hose is in that link.. if you are wanting specs or even pictures of the OEM hose good luck. They don;t seem to exist online except for used sales.

I see that, painful when that should be a common hose/fitting.

Have you tried O'Reilly's?

 

[PCustoms]

Again, that looks like a -4 JIC male to 1/4" male NPT adapter (assuming there is no o-ring on the adapter into the cylinder port). So that would match to a Parker 4CTX-S adapter.

Any adapter configuration can be found on Parker's Fitting Finder app (free). Here is the 1/4 NPT male to -4 JIC female: https://parkerfittingfinder.com/part/undefined?fittingScreen=details

FittingFinder

parkerfittingfinder.com

I can say for certain the male pipe to female JIC 90 is an odd special adapter, not comminly available. If you already have male JIC on the adapter and on the hose end, then you'd need a straight JIC female to male adapter, which is a: https://parkerfittingfinder.com/part/undefined?fittingScreen=details

Why adapt?

If that is sae or JIC on each end, he just needs to order the correct hose. At this point it should be 2 measurements (flare angle and thread OD) to determine what hose he needs.

 

[andyvh1959]

correct me if Im wrong but isnt one difference between JIC and SAE the threads? Like course versus a more finer type? Was trying to find coparisons last night and all the pics made it seem as though SAE had courser and lesser threads than JIC.

The PN of the hose is in that link.. if you are wanting specs or even pictures of the OEM hose good luck. They don;t seem to exist online except for used sales.

No, in some sizes the JIC/SAE threads are the exact same thread and size. In fact, in a pinch, some sizes of JIC flare can be turned into a SAE straight thread port and sealed with an o-ring (definitely not the right way to do it, but again in a pinch, it works). Now, all JIC are essentially an SAE spec, because threaded adapters in the USA are spec'd by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). Male pipe, JIC Flare, O-Ring boss are all SAE thread specs. Many people refer to port threads as "SAE" when actually inch port threads in the US are SAE ORB (o-ring boss). Port threads in the US are either female pipe (NPT-Female of NPTF, which is a tighter fit thread than NPT-Female), or SAE straight thread (o-ring seal into the port). That's it, there are only two inch-standard port threads for hydraulic connections in the USA.

 

[andyvh1959]

One difference, yes. Flare angle is also different.

Uh,...yes and no. To say JIC is 37 degree flare and SAE is 45 degree flare are different specs is not entirely correct. SAE covers ALL inch standard (Imperial) hydraulic fitting/adapter styles. WIthin SAE INCH standards, there are two FLARE connections, 37degree and 45 degree. For SAE hydraulic connections SAE JIC 37 degree flare is the most common application. For SAE air conditioning, heater/cooler systems, SAE JIC 45 degree flare is the most common. But even in recent years I worked with many OEMs that used SAE JIC 37 degree flare for nearly all connections for a hose or tube to a port adapter.

 

[PCustoms]

Uh,...yes and no. To say JIC is 37 degree flare and SAE is 45 degree flare are different specs is not entirely correct. SAE covers ALL inch standard (Imperial) hydraulic fitting/adapter styles. WIthin SAE INCH standards, there are two FLARE connections, 37degree and 45 degree. For SAE hydraulic connections SAE JIC 37 degree flare is the most common application. For SAE air conditioning, heater/cooler systems, SAE JIC 45 degree flare is the most common. But even in recent years I worked with many OEMs that used SAE JIC 37 degree flare for nearly all connections for a hose or tube to a port adapter.

Weird, I thought this was a thread about a hydraulic line on a tractor, not and air conditioner.

 

[andyvh1959]

Weird, I thought this was a thread about a hydraulic line on a tractor, not and air conditioner.

Just clarifying what is SAE JIC, which is BOTH 37 degree and 45 degree. Like I said a lot of people think JIC and SAE are different threads and flare angles, or perhaps even different specs. I've studied the SAE specs in depth over the past 30 years.

Its a good example of how people mix up hydraulic connections, especially when describing their connection needs to the unkowning guy at the local NAPA store or to the much more knowledgeable guy at a local hydraulics distributor.

 

[skeer]

FWIW Google still says that the flare angles are different. The 37 and 45* you mentioned. So here's some helpful pics hopefully

 

[skeer]

Too bad there aren't longer versions of these types #4 SAE/ORB Male x 1/4" NPSM Female Swivel 45°

Or even JIC if that's what mine is..

 

[PCustoms]

FWIW Google still says that the flare angles are different. The 37 and 45* you mentioned. So here's some helpful pics hopefully

Sure looks like a SAE 45 fitting to me. What is the OD on the threads at the flare?

How long of a hose do you need?

Should be able to order the correct hose, with proper ends, for $30

 

[skeer]

Damn! Had I know I could get the whole thing so cheap I'd have gone this route... actually I still might.

 

[skeer]

 

[BukitCase]

At least a few of your questions are covered in the PDF I linked to earlier

https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/mm5/thread_guide.pdf

Also, some adapters are available in 3 different lengths - typically part #'s have either NO extension or L, or LL added onto the part # ... Steve

 

[PCustoms]

In my experience (plumbed a diverter, 3rd function and 2 attachments to tractor) these are good hoses, way better then TSC.

Only thing to look out for is make sure you confirm the angle and SAE size, did you determine it's 1/4"?

 

[andyvh1959]

For that hose assembly you have with the male NPT end, IF you want to use that as is, you can get a 1/4 NPT female to -4 SAE O-ring port adapter. Turn the adapter into the port, then just turn the whole hose into the adapter. Then, assuming the other end of the hose assembly is likewise, you'll need some form of swivel to connect the hose to the adapter. Again, assuming the hose end is pipe, you'll need an adapter with a pipe thread swivel, which actually seals on the internal bevel of the pipe thread adapter. That would be a Parker 2507-4-4. It features 1/4 female NPSM thread which mates to the male 1/4 pipe thread but the seal is metal to metal (not the threads) where the internal seal of the NPSM meets and seals on the internal bevel on the end of the male NPT thread. That is, assuming the adapter used is a quality adapter that features the bevel in the end of the male pipe thread. I have used them and had no sealing issues on 3,000 psi hydraulics.

If you don't go that route then you'll need a new hose assembly with female JIC swivel hose ends to connect to the adapters you have with the male JIC connection.

 

[skeer]

Very much appreciate the pointer to discount hydraulic. After staging the hose out there with the cylinder I realized that the one elbow I'm dealing with was not like the other 3. I'm thinking this one had been replaced before.. and I don't want to pinch the host with the plow mount in the future so opted for a 45 instead of a 90.
Because of the min $20 order I ended up ordering:

 

[skeer]

Silly question guys.. Am I reading the Thread Guide sizes correctly? A 1/4" NPT is equivalent to a #5 right?

 

[PCustoms]

Silly question guys.. Am I reading the Thread Guide sizes correctly? A 1/4" NPT is equivalent to a #5 right?

A #5 what?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think ao

 

[skeer]

Ah ****, yeah #5 SAE/OEB. The fractional equivalent to a #5 is what I'm trying to figure out. I had thought that a #4 was it, but turns out that a decent bit too small, measures .430 OD of the threaded section and what I need measures .555

 

[skeer]

It's 'Dash Size'.. right?

 

[andyvh1959]

1/4" NPT is -4 NPT. In my 30 years with Parker I never used a -5 SAE port thread, it is VERY uncommon. It exists, I had some adapters like a -6 JIC to -5 ORB, but never used it.

Don't obsess over the minimal port difference of -4 NPT to -5 SAE, for your application you'll never move enough fluid that can be an issue. If I were converting an application from a -4 NPT port to SAE I'd just go with -6 SAE.

 

[Wrench97]

I think he's talking about a drill bit size?
If so no 1/4" pipe tap needs a 7/16" bit.

 

[skeer]

1/4" NPT is -4 NPT. In my 30 years with Parker I never used a -5 SAE port thread, it is VERY uncommon. It exists, I had some adapters like a -6 JIC to -5 ORB, but never used it.

Don't obsess over the minimal port difference of -4 NPT to -5 SAE, for your application you'll never move enough fluid that can be an issue. If I were converting an application from a -4 NPT port to SAE I'd just go with -6 SAE.

Thanks.. After a more thorough examination and some quality caliper time I did determine that -6/#6 is what's required here. Why the hell they have to have such a silly, and arbitrarily named sizing distinction, SMH.

 

[whateg01]

Pics on Google for hydraulics unlimited look pretty promising.

 

[trashauler]

The - is measured in 1/16
-4 is 4/16 or 1/4
-5 is 5/16
-6 is 6/16 or 3/8
-8 is 8/16 or 1/2
-10 is 10/16 or 5/8
-12 is 12/16 or 3/4
-14 is 14/16 or 7/8
-16 is 16/16 or 1

 

[Firebrick43]

Silly question guys.. Am I reading the Thread Guide sizes correctly? A 1/4" NPT is equivalent to a #5 right?

SAE/orb threads are straight threads and not compatible with tapered NPT threads

Thanks.. After a more thorough examination and some quality caliper time I did determine that -6/#6 is what's required here. Why the hell they have to have such a silly, and arbitrarily named sizing distinction, SMH.

It’s been a standard naming convention from US military aircraft in the 1930’s, and industrial JIC fittings post war (same dimensions except looser thread tolerances)

I am not sure how -1 = 1/16 fits the definition of arbitrary? It’s very deliberate and systematic.

 

[andyvh1959]

I think its the way so many descriptions and sizes seem to be used at the same time, even sizing wise. But yes, "dash" sizing started in the military and carried over to SAE. There are other standards too for JIS (Japanese Industry Standard), French GAZ which is a standard like Kobelco, and more.

Best reference for the various threaded hydraulic connections can be found here:

https://www.parker.com/us/fr/divisions/tube-fittings-division/resources/assembly-and-installation-faqs.html