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Hydraulic Fluid spill from the contractor?

Fireguy50

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Sep 28, 2020
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81
Location
Michigan
During the demolition of the old garage their Kubota Mini Excavator failed. It had something break that allowed it to bleed hydraulic fluid to its death. Now I have a large puddle of hydraulic fluid on my garage pad, a small puddle on my driveway, a streak of fluid across the driveway to the back yard, and an unknown spill under the machine where it died in my yard. They had a Kubota repair tech out at my property for ~2 hours Thursday, he just took notes, and it seems they are trying to get an upgrade along with the repair; taking measurements of the bucket and even cutting a smaller piece of OSB and drawing an outline of the bucket (never seen that). I figured Kubota would have a website or catalog with the available attachments (including buckets), not sure why they would need to make a outline pattern of the bucket (like kids drawing around their hand and making a turkey in kindergarten crafts).

I haven't said anything yet about the fluid. Their is the owner, a project coordinator oversees all the current job sites, and then my job site crew lead. They also crushed my floor drain (after I covered it up with duck tape right in front of the site crew lead. I highly doubt it connected to any plumbing, not the City, and no drain out of side of the garage. I suspect it's a large pit of rock and lawn fabric to allow water to drain and naturally absorb into the ground over time without filling in with sand and fine partials from the floor I haven't swept up yet. But now I will have to pay a plumber to inspect this drain hole and (concrete) saw out the old drain, and install a new grate (or it's yet another DIY added to my large list of things to do once they are done with the basic construction.

To save money I'm; installing my own doors, installing the siding, full electrical, HVAC, insulation, finishing out the interior, etc. and now possibly cutting out the drain, inspect where/what it drains into, and repairing all of that.

When/How should I bring up this hydraulic fluid? I didn't have a new pad, or fancy epoxy flooring, it did have a few small stains from work over the last 30 years, but nothing this large; and I DID have a new footing and new pad extension for maximum allowed square footage. PLUS they started framing the side walls right away with that hydraulic puddle in the way, I'm going to have a 8ft x 6ft area of hydraulic fluid stain on my wall studs. No cat litter, no absorbent material, no cardboard put down; just kept working over it. They've already torn out many sections of the grass as they were separating the demolition into piles of siding, metals, and other items they separate (out in my lawn). They ripped out grass picking up their piles of separated recyclables and trash to haul away. How much yard damage is expected for a demolition and rebuild, before I need to bring this up. The concrete contractor had this in his contact that he would only do a rough fill after doing his extension for a larger garage. While the House roofing contractor (for the house last year) had a full cleanup in their contract. There is no job site cleanup in the construction contract to specify how much trash will be left or grass repaired, or not. I should have asked about the job site cleanup, but I made the mistake of assuming. I know some is expected, but is this all my responsibility, or is there an implied expectation for a site cleanup?

What/how should I bring this up and ask for? Attached is a picture of the mini excavator driving away from where it in broke a hose/fitting. Picture of the smaller driveway puddle, and streak to where it finally died and was abandoned in my yard, waiting for the Kabuto tech to fix it.
 

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jack stand

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Feb 29, 2012
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Lakes Region Maine
It'll go away from the lawn and a absorbent on the hard surfaces will clean that up.
It's really not a big deal, at least to mother nature. 👍
Just keep it between you and the contractor unless you want to experience extreme irrational panic and over reaction by the local "authorities".
 
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Gozo

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Oct 10, 2013
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255
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Central VA
The longer you wait to bring it up, the less chance of getting it resolved. Those leak stains are a bear to get cleaned up; maybe a place like ServePro can give you idea how much is possible.
From your description it sounds like they didn’t care a bit about “workmanlike manner”. I’d charge them a storage fee for leaving the dead Kubota sitting in your yard. My thought is you’re gonna get shafted on this one. (n)
 

4x4Pete

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Stroud
As far as the job site clean up, I have done it myself when using contractors. It gives me time to look around at the progress, bring up any issues or discrepancies and lets them know "I'm watching". Cleaning up the oil on the concrete hopefully was or should have been dealt with immediately, by you or them. It would be easier to deal with it even if it isn't your responsibility, to not have to deal with tearing up the pad. At work we had a film crew use the property for some tv show. They had a vehicle blow a power steering line and spew it all over the asphalt driveway. They didn't clean it up, because they were filming at that point. That cost them $100k. They had pressure washing company wash it, then offered to seal the whole driveway. The owner of the property wanted it like it was, no oil stains and no sealer. It got repaved. All it would have taken was some oil absorbent and it wouldn't have got to the replace point.
 

cannuck

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any competent contractor that has any expectation of oil spills will carry a spill kit. Anyone who has suffered a spill should be reacting with oil pads and/or copious application of diatomaceous earth. These are conversations you have in MINUTES after a spill, not the next day or two.
 

chris142

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Often the buckets are made by another company. It's a real pita if so and you need parts as no 2 companies are compatable with each other. I assume that's your case and they have to find who made it,they then have to build the part,ship it etc . Can take months.

One popular company in particular who's name escapes me at the moment is in Michigan never returns your call.

Edit: Paladin! They were terrible!

 

PCustoms

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Why would you come here and write a diatribe instead of just asking the guy how he's going to clean up the oil?

I'd guess a hose or fitting burst. Everything else in the OP is irrelevant.
 

Firebrick43

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West central Indiana
Manufactures post HxLxW dimensions but they are not going to post CAD drawings in their literature for other companies to copy.

When you need to replace a bucket side or bottom making a pattern is the only way to do it, especially in the field.
 

NUTTSGT

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It's the weekend and I doubt they will be back till Not, maybe Tuesday.

Put some oil dry down and get it cleaned up before the spill sets.
 

dcg9381

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any competent contractor that has any expectation of oil spills will carry a spill kit. Anyone who has suffered a spill should be reacting with oil pads and/or copious application of diatomaceous earth. These are conversations you have in MINUTES after a spill, not the next day or two.
If that's the bar, we don't have any competent contractors around here.

I don't know how they are gonna get that stuff off bare concrete. That's the bottom line.

The drain would be a problem for me. I'd take a picture, let him know that he can either have it repaired by "his plumber" or you're going to hire yours and bill him. Excavation crews certainly have some experience hitting "unexpected" plumbing things.

I remember during our build our plumber spilled purple PVC primer all over my garage floor (which as going to get clear polyurea). I was livid. The GC gave me "pragmatic" advice: IF you want to keep concrete floors clean with "covid subs" you need to cover them up. You can charge the plumber / have him clean it up, but he's going to put your project on the "bottom" of his priority list.... So I spent a few hours working to get that stuff off. I ended up staining the garage floor white. Construction just ***** around here, very little accountability.

Your leverage here is if you haven't paid the bill yet... That's about it.

But I agree, "ask him" and maybe he'll make it right.... Guys doing the actual work, often few S't given.
 

cannuck

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I don't know how they are gonna get that stuff off bare concrete. That's the bottom line.
Oil will indeed penetrate into the concrete - thus why you have to do your spill remediation immediately and aggressively. Floor Dri, Absorball, etc. works extremely well if you get on it right away, but will still leave a bit of stain. When that is an issue, we use Walter Slapshot to do the final attack. For us, oil volume was in tanker loads, but used in sensitive places, so spills were always a big deal.

old guy spill story: we were draining and refilling a large power transformer at an electric process chemical plant about 30 years ago. They had just hired their first ever "environmental engineer" - a young girl fresh out of university who was determined to "save the world" - one drop of oil at a time. In the kickoff meeting I told them what we would do with the inevitable spillage (we would move 15,000 gallons in and out of the unit 8 or 10 times - so a lot of hoses and valves they would drip before getting capped or plugged). The nice lady proclaimed that they have never had an oil spill and expected us to keep that record down to the drop. Everyone was too polite to tell her what reality was, but a few days later she came by and made some comment about our spill protection - so I took her for a walk around the site and showed her the stains around EVERY sample and drain port of the dozen or so process transformers on site. You should have heard what she had to say a little further into the job when one the tankers they rented from their trucking contractor was found split at a seam and puking oil by the gallon until I could move it back into the transformer. Fast forward a decade or two and we would place every tanker and process trailer inside of a rubber berm on most sites.
 
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tarmy

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Nor Cal
Out here, if an inspector saw that oil they would be all over YOU. That is your problem, not the contractor as that oil is on your property. As others have noted…they should have cleaned that **** up and if they didn’t you should say…get this cleaned up now.

Me personally, wouldn’t get to worked up ( I have a tractor and have busted lines before) but that stuff is sticky, messy and will soak into soil or the slab.
 

Firebrick43

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West central Indiana
Even 5 gallons on your lawn is a huge deal! This isn’t 1952, and we know better. We also know it can be a long term issue getting into ground water, etc.
As long as it isn’t something very porous like pure sand that lets it sink deep quickly and it’s reasonably spread out on the surface it will not get to the water table.

Oil eating microbes are everywhere. They need certain condition to thrive. Water and air at the top of the soil provide this as long as there is not to much oil tha smothers it. Deeper in the soil there starts to be a lack of oxygen which is why even small leaks in underground tanks are not good as microbe action slows dramatically.
 

Sumboodie

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Even 5 gallons on your lawn is a huge deal! This isn’t 1952, and we know better. We also know it can be a long term issue getting into ground water, etc.
It biodegrades fairly quickly.
Not saying it's ok to purposely pour it on the ground, but it's certainly not a huge deal.

Have blown many lines over the years, sometimes dumping 100+ gallons.
 
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Fireguy50

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Why would you come here and write a diatribe instead of just asking the guy how he's going to clean up the oil?

I'd guess a hose or fitting burst. Everything else in the OP is irrelevant.
I'm not always at home, or medically available to babysit them all day. I have health problems that restrict what I can do and how often I have to go back to the doctor or treatments. I a medically retired Firefighter Paramedic lost 1/3 of my lung after 9/11, then had some lifting injuries that got me 7 bolts in my spine. I'm available to babysit them every time they are here.

I signed a contract for this rebuild in early October, I've been waiting weeks while they told me excuses with the permits, which I called the City to verify they were actually submitted and waiting and they didn't just take my first check and disappear. I was not given any call, text, email, pigeon, etc they had permits and were ready to start. They just showed up Thursday morning at 10am and started demolition. I didn't know about the leak until the rental/leasing companies sent out a guy to inspect the Kabuto. Then I reviewed my security camera footage and seen the mess.
It's the weekend and I doubt they will be back till Not, maybe Tuesday.

Put some oil dry down and get it cleaned up before the spill set

I'm not allowed to do than, that size spill and how they covered it with lumber is beyond my medical restrictions and abilities. Plus my original garage burned up in 2020, I've been waiting 4 years for the financial ability to rebuild a better garage. I haven't had floor dry in years waiting for this rebuild. AND it would be very hard for anyone to do a clean up, despite telling me on Thursday when they were done; "we'll be back Monday when lumbar is delivered". They showed up Friday morning with the wrong lumber lubar. First they built 8ft walls, when I paid for 10ft walls. They tore them apart and left the pile of 2x8 in my driveway for somebody else to pickup supposedly. Then framed 10ft walls and left them laying on this stain, there is 16 on center wall over the ~8ft circle of oil spill. It's possible, but my personal doctor and neurologist would be very unhappy if I was bent down trying to clean the floor between studs.
Then built just the 2 side walls them quickly drove off at 11:30 because their boss assumed they wouldn't get the 2x10s and had another job site that needs their work. After they left another 18 wheeler came by and dropped off 2 stacks of sheathing, if they got dropped in the wrong spot on my driveway, they shouldn't have a left a pile of 2x8 and a broken Kabuto in the way. Supposedly they'll be back Monday morning. They expect to be done in less than 2 weeks.
 
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Fireguy50

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Michigan
If that's the bar, we don't have any competent contractors around here.

I don't know how they are gonna get that stuff off bare concrete. That's the bottom line.

The drain would be a problem for me. I'd take a picture, let him know that he can either have it repaired by "his plumber" or you're going to hire yours and bill him. Excavation crews certainly have some experience hitting "unexpected" plumbing things.

I remember during our build our plumber spilled purple PVC primer all over my garage floor (which as going to get clear polyurea). I was livid. The GC gave me "pragmatic" advice: IF you want to keep concrete floors clean with "covid subs" you need to cover them up. You can charge the plumber / have him clean it up, but he's going to put your project on the "bottom" of his priority list.... So I spent a few hours working to get that stuff off. I ended up staining the garage floor white. Construction just ***** around here, very little accountability.

Your leverage here is if you haven't paid the bill yet... That's about it.

But I agree, "ask him" and maybe he'll make it right.... Guys doing the actual work, often few S't given.
I agree, all the contractors I've dealt (roofing, plumbing, concrete, electrical, HVAC) with have a smooth talking sales rep to make get the job. But the site lead is just the senior day laborer, they work fast and assume it's not their money. When they are costing the company in materials or wasted labor, while the homeowner has to deal with their sloppy work or mistakes, and we don't pay extra for their mistakes or lazy effort.

I took the time to acetone the slab and duck tape over that drain, so junk from the demolition would not fall into the drain. Now it has to be repaired and might be full of construction debris. I believe me taping the drain in-front of the project manager is on camera, I should check the cameras I removed from the garage before demolition.🤔

They have been working hard & fast, they'll be really excited to collect that last check, but I don't have to until the small details are fixed! Luckily I don't have to take many photos, I have 16 security cameras and everything is recorded. That's how I found the Kubota leak, and the rental/leasing repair guy out taking measurements and notes (unsure why they didn't come prepared to fix it then🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ ).

I'll be able to make full time lapse videos of the demolition and rebuild to share on the forum.🍻
 

PCustoms

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I'm not always at home, or medically available to babysit them all day. I have health problems that restrict what I can do and how often I have to go back to the doctor or treatments. I a medically retired Firefighter Paramedic lost 1/3 of my lung after 9/11, then had some lifting injuries that got me 7 bolts in my spine. I'm available to babysit them every time they are here.

I signed a contract for this rebuild in early October, I've been waiting weeks while they told me excuses with the permits, which I called the City to verify they were actually submitted and waiting and they didn't just take my first check and disappear. I was not given any call, text, email, pigeon, etc they had permits and were ready to start. They just showed up Thursday morning at 10am and started demolition. I didn't know about the leak until the rental/leasing companies sent out a guy to inspect the Kabuto. Then I reviewed my security camera footage and seen the mess.


I'm not allowed to do than, that size spill and how they covered it with lumber is beyond my medical restrictions and abilities. Plus my original garage burned up in 2020, I've been waiting 4 years for the financial ability to rebuild a better garage. I haven't had floor dry in years waiting for this rebuild. AND it would be very hard for anyone to do a clean up, despite telling me on Thursday when they were done; "we'll be back Monday when lumbar is delivered". They showed up Friday morning with the wrong lumber lubar. First they built 8ft walls, when I paid for 10ft walls. They tore them apart and left the pile of 2x8 in my driveway for somebody else to pickup supposedly. Then framed 10ft walls and left them laying on this stain, there is 16 on center wall over the ~8ft circle of oil spill. It's possible, but my personal doctor and neurologist would be very unhappy if I was bent down trying to clean the floor between studs.
Then built just the 2 side walls them quickly drove off at 11:30 because their boss assumed they wouldn't get the 2x10s and had another job site that needs their work. After they left another 18 wheeler came by and dropped off 2 stacks of sheathing, if they got dropped in the wrong spot on my driveway, they shouldn't have a left a pile of 2x8 and a broken Kabuto in the way. Supposedly they'll be back Monday morning. They expect to be done in less than 2 weeks.

Sorry to hear about you injuries.

It sounds like given all the issues, you should fire the contractor and possibly reconsider the scope of the garage project at this time.
 

cannuck

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As long as it isn’t something very porous like pure sand that lets it sink deep quickly and it’s reasonably spread out on the surface it will not get to the water table.

Oil eating microbes are everywhere. They need certain condition to thrive. Water and air at the top of the soil provide this as long as there is not to much oil tha smothers it. Deeper in the soil there starts to be a lack of oxygen which is why even small leaks in underground tanks are not good as microbe action slows dramatically.
There are both aerobic and anaerobic microbes out there that will feast on base stock, but the additives tend to poison them. THAT is why formulated lubricants become hazmat when disposal time comes around.
 

Jlarson

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AZ
Welcome to the construction world, especially resi and smaller commercial. Your average stick monkey, "PM" or framer doesn't care, they're not getting paid to mop up oil.

Sounds like you're pretty much your own GC, sometimes the GC has to be the ******* and say clean up this oil, fix the grass and stop running over drains, and if they're working on the machine on the site tell them their mechanic has to clean up after he's done too.
 

Sumboodie

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There are both aerobic and anaerobic microbes out there that will feast on base stock, but the additives tend to poison them. THAT is why formulated lubricants become hazmat when disposal time comes around.
Hydraulic oil is definitely not HAZMAT. I deal with it daily, as well as dozens of other lubricants.

We have to "report" spills if over a gallon at work, but that's just an internal report. It's only a true reportable spill if over a drum, or it's spilled in a waterway.
 
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Hank11

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Tennessee
I’m still pretty sure that all you have to do is demand that the contractor fix it. Add onto the demand that if you don’t fix it, I’m gonna pay someone to fix it and I’m gonna deduct that from your money.
 
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Fireguy50

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I
Sorry to hear about you injuries.

It sounds like given all the issues, you should fire the contractor and possibly reconsider the scope of the garage project at this time.
I knew there were risks when I started college, my wife has the Firefighters prayer on a Dog Tag. At least I'm being taken care of after the 3 workplace injuries.🍻

They (I) have a General Contractor and the company owner. But the GC is busy with multiple sites, and the other only stops by once a week like a figure head to show "he cares" for employees and customers! 🙄🤮

The GC acted surprised about the required concrete foundation work. I told him the site lead knew about it, some blocks came up with the walls and they tossed in the dumpster, while others easily move if kicked. And when they told me "coming back Monday" I would have that foundation fixed over the weekend. BUT they came back and made more of a mess and then left early. I now have side walls on top of the spill and in the way of the foundation work.🙄🤦🏻‍♂️ But at least they are ambitious and working hard to finish before Thanksgiving.🤔👍
 

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MovingAlong

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Their is the owner, a project coordinator oversees all the current job sites, and then my job site crew lead.

To save money I'm; installing my own doors, installing the siding, full electrical, HVAC, insulation, finishing out the interior, etc. and now possibly cutting out the drain, inspect where/what it drains into, and repairing all of that.

When/How should I bring up this hydraulic fluid?

Guessing you don't have many contractors in your area to choose from. But these guys aren't going to get any better, if you need better work you're going to have to find someone else.

If you're only hiring out parts of the work, you're the GC. Other guy can call himself what he wants, but you're running the "project" as a whole. And if the crew only works for one guy and that one guy only uses one crew then guess what - you just hired a group of buddies that rely on each other to make a living. They're not going to be very tough on each other over problems like this. They have hundreds of jobs that they need each other for. (found myself in this situation once, was not very happy when I realized what was going on but that was on me)

Might ask the rental yard for clean up advice. It was their equipment and would suspect they've done this before. Not saying they should pay, but they may have the expertise to address the mess...
 
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