Hydraulic Jack Ol
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disston
Well-known member
Some people say automatic transmission oil. Can't tell which one tho. Type F would be pretty thick.
I have used power steering fluid. The one I have currently is clear and doesn't have a leak sealer.
I have seen hydraulic jack oil but they come in several different weights and the one I saw in a parts store didn't have any numbers on it. So I liked the power steering fluid better.
I use it in my OTC 16 ton shop press.
Hope this helps.
I have used power steering fluid. The one I have currently is clear and doesn't have a leak sealer.
I have seen hydraulic jack oil but they come in several different weights and the one I saw in a parts store didn't have any numbers on it. So I liked the power steering fluid better.
I use it in my OTC 16 ton shop press.
Hope this helps.
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Provincial
Well-known member
If you are just adding oil, you need to use something compatible with what is in there already. If you have rebuilt it and are replacing all the oil, you have more options.
Regular hydraulic oil comes in two standard options. AW32 is "standard" and AW46 is for higher pressures and has more wear resistance. Both have a viscosity similar to ATF.
ATF has friction modifiers for the clutches, which you don't need and really don't harm anything.
Regular hydraulic oil comes in two standard options. AW32 is "standard" and AW46 is for higher pressures and has more wear resistance. Both have a viscosity similar to ATF.
ATF has friction modifiers for the clutches, which you don't need and really don't harm anything.
Robby321
Well-known member
paulsomlo
Well-known member
ATF generally has a better viscosity index than hydraulic oil, which means your jack will work better in cold weather.
Rileysan
Well-known member
If one takes the time to understand the nature of hydraulic oil, one doesn't have to spend extra money, wait for shipping, or drive around town trying to locate something labeled "jack oil", which is completely unnecessary. It's just a hydraulic cylinder for crying out loud ...
In short, you could use any kind of oil you wanted, provided it's compatible with the existing oil in the jack. If in doubt, drain it and refill with one type. I've always used ATF because I can find an endless supply of the stuff in nearly every garage of every estate sale I go to.
Provincial
Well-known member
Just to add fuel to the fire, Tractor Hydraulic Fluid will work, too. There are two common types of THF, regular and Premium. For use as a hydraulic oil, either will do. The Premium has additives that are intended for later transmissions and hydrostatic systems, but that does not affect their use as a hydraulic oil. Most THF is also rated for ATF applications if you refer to the manufacturer's specification sheets.
This discussion is trending toward the one we had in the Garage Sale Thread about Jeep cans!
This discussion is trending toward the one we had in the Garage Sale Thread about Jeep cans!
Just don't buy the "303" type hydraulic oil. Apparently it's some really bad stuff. There's a thread around here on it.
Provincial
Well-known member
Here is a link to Gulf Oil that explains the "303" issue. The real problem is that Citgo was portraying their 303 as a "Premium" THF, when it was not.
303 is fine for older (pre-1970) tractors, and as a basic hydraulic oil. If your tractor is newer than 1970, and has a wet clutch, wet brakes, automatic (or "powershift") transmission, or hydrostatic drive, you must use the real Premium THF.
The 1970 cut-off is not precise, because 303 can be used in equipment designed and first offered before that date. So an older model of a machine may be fine with 303, but if updated to a later standard, it would need Premium THF.
u-tierbrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/did_you_know_john_deere_303_thf.pdf
303 is fine for older (pre-1970) tractors, and as a basic hydraulic oil. If your tractor is newer than 1970, and has a wet clutch, wet brakes, automatic (or "powershift") transmission, or hydrostatic drive, you must use the real Premium THF.
The 1970 cut-off is not precise, because 303 can be used in equipment designed and first offered before that date. So an older model of a machine may be fine with 303, but if updated to a later standard, it would need Premium THF.
u-tierbrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/did_you_know_john_deere_303_thf.pdf
bts
Well-known member
Please NEVER USE ATF in a hydraulic system unless recommended by the manufacturer.
ATF can soften seals and lead to premature failure. The older the equipment the more of a problem this can be. The seals were not made to handle the additives that are in the modern ATF oils.
Just use a standard hydraulic oil whether its a 32, 46 or 68. Its also cheaper than anything else.
Tony
ATF can soften seals and lead to premature failure. The older the equipment the more of a problem this can be. The seals were not made to handle the additives that are in the modern ATF oils.
Just use a standard hydraulic oil whether its a 32, 46 or 68. Its also cheaper than anything else.
Tony
RanWhenParked
Member
Great post. I had always thought that since ATF was intentionally formulated with seal conditioners (needed to maintain ability to develop and retain pressure in the transmission) it would be good for this type of purpose. Never thought about the vintage seal compatibility with the modern additives.
paulsomlo
Well-known member
ajchien
Well-known member
Must admit, I’m unfamiliar with the walker 2874 jack. Can you posts a pic, for curiosity sake?
Edit: never mind, I found your other thread that has pictures.
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bts
Well-known member
But that's the problem, not many people know what seals they have in their particular unit.
Tony
paulsomlo
Well-known member
Hi Paul,
I was hoping you would read/reply to my question. I have been considering using the newer seals to replace the leather cup on some Hein-Werner jacks that I have been trying (not trying very hard right now hahaha) to rebuild.
One of the factors is durability of the newer seals using ATF (the other factors being availability of leather cups in good condition and cost).
If I remember correctly you went through the process of replacing the leather cup with a "synthetic" seal with one of your HW jacks and it required some machining (which maybe very expensive since I can't do it myself).
Anyways, back to the topic, I have some ATF fluid available and I would like to use it if at all possible, will read the other links you posted, I still have time to before I have to make a decision. I do have some hydraulic jack available but not enough for all the jacks.
Thanks once more for your help!
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Provincial
Well-known member
I have an old (1955) Austin Western road grader that had leather cup seals from the factory. It ran 1500 psi. system pressure. Later, A-W increased the pressure to 1800, and then 2000, but I keep mine at the original pressure to take it easy on the old seals.
I have been changing over to poly-pack seals by machining new pistons. Once I get all the cylinders changed, I'll probably increase the system pressure.
I run AW-46 hydraulic oil and never have any problems. The pump is a vane-type, and probably can't be repaired or replaced.
I have been changing over to poly-pack seals by machining new pistons. Once I get all the cylinders changed, I'll probably increase the system pressure.
I run AW-46 hydraulic oil and never have any problems. The pump is a vane-type, and probably can't be repaired or replaced.
bts
Well-known member
Geeeees haven't seen leather seals in about 20years. Top gland seal on an old crane lift ram that was leaking.
I don`t know how the are affected by the use of ATF.
With ATF, I think we should keep in mind that all ATF`s are not the same.
Take the old Type F. No friction modifiers and few other additives.
I think Dexron is up to 6 now. I would hate to see the list of additives in that stuff.
And their all red.
Tony
I don`t know how the are affected by the use of ATF.
With ATF, I think we should keep in mind that all ATF`s are not the same.
Take the old Type F. No friction modifiers and few other additives.
I think Dexron is up to 6 now. I would hate to see the list of additives in that stuff.
And their all red.
Tony
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paulsomlo
Well-known member
Hi Tony,
That is right, there are so many flavors of automatic transmission fluid nowadays, all claiming to be better than the other/older product.
The ATF that I would be using is rather new, if I remember correctly it is the Dexron VI and is precisely the additives what worries me. They maybe great for the newer synthetic seals in modern transmissions, but I bet that when the newer ATFs were designed, old leather seals were not even remotely taken into consideration... I may have to play it safe and stick with hydraulic oil.
Paul,
That is so interesting. Thanks for sharing those links. Even tho is clearly a "sales pitch" for their leather products, it kind of makes sense. What do you think Paul, are leather seals actually better? Would you risk using the newer ATF on your own vintage jacks with leather cup seals?
Also, were you able to find out how much the cup seals for a vintage HW Jack will cost individually if you were to order their minimum required amount ($300 or so)?
I hope I'm not hijacking the OP thread by posting the information about leather cups below (from the first of the links Paul provided above), but I wonder what other members with more qualifications (perhaps that's you Paul?) think of the below claims on leather seals vs "plastic" seals.
Why Leather
Despite 100 years of technological advances since we first opened our doors, no one has ever developed a synthetic material that has the diverse attributes of leather. Leather is tough, pliable, and wear resistant. Leather is unaffected by cold, enabling it to withstand high pressure at low temperature, and its low coefficient of friction means it generates less heat, and lasts longer as a result. Leather is impregnated with greases, oils, waxes, synthetic resins, or synthetic rubber as required for various applications – thus leather seals are impermeable to hydraulic fluids and air. Further, leather is far more cost effective than synthetics.
Leather seals, such as cups, flanges and u-packings take on the shape they need in order to seal. It may sound strange, but if you’ve got a little bit of wear, or you’re a bit out of true, leather is going to fill the voids whereas the rubber or plastic cannot. They just are not flexible enough.
We are proud of our strong relationship with one of the nation’s largest manufacturer of paint spraying equipment. Our leather seals are used in their fluid handing systems and components from small paint spray pumps to large automotive electrostatic painting equipment, lubrication and sealing applications, as well as power applications for the contractor industry.
They have found that leather impregnated with synthetic rubber, used in conjunction with plastic seals, is a combination that just cannot be beat. Their engineers say, “Leather is more that a good seal, it is an excellent bearing. When pumping abrasive materials, leather absorbs abrasive particles without seal damage, and these impregnated leather seals can be used with both water and solvent based paints.”
All from leather.
paulsomlo
Well-known member
Are they better? I don't really know - that would be a question for Hiball. In fact, you might search under username "Hiball", keyword "leather". If it were me, and I were paying $40+ for seal kits, I probably wouldn't risk it - I'd just use regular hydraulic jack oil. Especially in your climate, where it never gets cold - just about any weight will work. I don't worry too much about it, because I can replace my polyurethane cups for $3.50 each.
I don't remember the details on the leather cups, but I'm thinking they might have been maybe $10 each or less.