Hydraulic Press Info.

[dwall174]

I'm planning to build a 30 ton hydraulic shop press & I'm looking for the hydraulics.

This is the style of Hydraulic Set-Up I would like to use!

However I haven't been able to find anything reasonably priced.

Does anyone know of a source for a reasonable priced hydraulic ram & pump?

Doug

 

[dwall174]

Here's another POST of mine that shows my ideas for the frame.

Doug

 

[matt_i]

Not suggesting you are going to save a lot but have you looked at Surplus center?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/hydraulics/

Any reason you don't want to go electromechanical?

I'd be looking at an automotive power steering pump if I wanted to go cheap. There's not a lot of flow, but along these lines there is not a lot of flow with a hand pumped setup either...

 

[jamscal]

I wanted to build one a few years back but ran into the same problem.

Did a bunch of searching.

By the time you buy even cheap hydraulics you're almost to the cost of an entire press.

I bought a HF 50 ton and modded it to my purposes.

 

[fiftyv8]

Some of these suppliers are dreaming with their prices.
If they cut their margins they may discover that they could sell more product.
With such high prices, they leave the door open for cheap overseas sellers to move in.

I've made my own homemade press, never been sure exactly what tonnage it is but it has always gotten the job done for me.

I scored an old custom made ram and cylinder that had been disregarded at a railway workshop.
I sourced a modern seal and had a new piston machined up to take the new seal. The seal, piston and hand pump are the only items I purchased the rest came from my scrap sources.

I mounted it on old steel wheels and is able to be moved out of the way in my shop if required.
It will see me to the grave that's for sure.

Luck and opportunity play a big part in getting homemade stuff put together.
Also maybe an eye for it and an enterprising nature also helps...

 

[dwall174]

Not suggesting you are going to save a lot but have you looked at Surplus center?

Yeah I have looked at a few places like that, But I really don't know that much about hydraulics to figure out the pressure & flow rates needed.

Any reason you don't want to go electromechanical?

I'm not really sure what you mean by electromechanical?

But I have looked at some small electric motor driven hydraulic units like THIS ONE
And a cylinder like THIS ONE

The electric/hydraulic set-up would be nice, But since I probably won't be using the press on a regular basis it would be "over-kill"

Doug

 

[matt_i]

Yeah I have looked at a few places like that, But I really don't know that much about hydraulics to figure out the pressure & flow rates needed.

For rough numbers the ram force (tonnage) will be the hydraulic max pressure * piston area...which is pi*(d^2)/4.

To calculate the speed, there is a "cubic volume per rev" rating on the hydraulic pump which could be expressed in GPM (gallons per minute).

So you can equate gallons to cubic inches with the factor of 231. The volume of the cylinder is its area * stroke in cubic inches. Eventually the X-gallon cylinder will reach full stroke in some number of minutes.

Some examples..using a 4" dia x 8" long cylinder, it has a piston area of pi*16/4 = 12.56 sq in. 100.48 cu in volume.

Suppose pump has 2500 psi and 0.8gpm. Cylinder will develop a max load of 2500*12.56 = 31,400 lbs or ~15 tons. Cylinder has 100/231 = 0.43 gallons, so roughly 30 seconds for max stroke and 30 seconds for return. Slow by some standards but if not used much who cares. More GPM always requires more motor HP and gets more expensive.

You also need a tank and a directional valve.

 

[fiftyv8]

matt i, that is good info, I suspect that I could use some of it to work out what tonnage my homemade ram is capable of then.
I should take a pic and post it just for interest sake.

 

[Showkey]

Building press is a lot building a trailer..........unless you have access to dirt cheap materials.......the economics are HUGE challenge.

 

[fiftyv8]

I agree, however in my case especially in the past I have been fortunate enough to have access to good sources of scrap metal/steel.

Things have changed over the years that see opportunities for scrap drying up.

Any way, here are a couple of pic's of my efforts.
Note all the pieces of scrap plate & tools etc that I keep as useful accessories during my pressing needs.

I did fabricate my own hydraulic fluid tank and just mounted a medium rate 2 way hand pump of reasonable quality that I could find at the time of building it.

I figured having a slightly slower rate pump would work better under load, but some of that loss is regained being that it is a double acting hand pump.

Only thing I would change given my time over is the size of the adjustable table as it needs to be stronger and down bow under large pressing loads.

 

[dwall174]

I wanted to build one a few years back but ran into the same problem.

By the time you buy even cheap hydraulics you're almost to the cost of an entire press

I've noticed that also!
In my case I already have most of the steel needed, But finding the type of hydraulics I wanted is a little challenging

Doug

 

[dwall174]

For rough numbers the ram force (tonnage) will be the hydraulic max pressure * piston area...which is pi*(d^2)/4.

To calculate the speed, there is a "cubic volume per rev" rating on the hydraulic pump which could be expressed in GPM (gallons per minute).

So you can equate gallons to cubic inches with the factor of 231. The volume of the cylinder is its area * stroke in cubic inches. Eventually the X-gallon cylinder will reach full stroke in some number of minutes.

Some examples..using a 4" dia x 8" long cylinder, it has a piston area of pi*16/4 = 12.56 sq in. 100.48 cu in volume.

All those numbers make my head spin

I used THIS CALCULATOR & figured out that I would need a cylinder with a 5" bore and a 2500~3000 psi pump to get the tonnage I want.

That size cylinder would probably take way too long with a hand pump like this one which is on the order of what I'm looking for.

Doug

 

[fiftyv8]

I found these items listed locally on eBay which I thought were pretty good deals.

eBay item number:183773621715

eBay item number:263208185049

Just copy the numbers only into the search for anything box and the items will appear.

Remembering these are listed in Aussie $'s so you can roughly multiply the amount by
a factor of 0.7 to give you a US$ match.

 

[dwall174]

The second pump is what I've been looking for!
Other than the expensive one I mentioned before, I haven't had any luck finding one.

I found a air/hydraulic pump

That may work, But I'll still need to find a cylinder to match the pump.
I'm hoping to find a complete hydraulic set-up.

Doug

 

[rsanter]

So I have one of the side mounted pumps like you show but it is manual (hand and foot operated)
I also have a air over hydrolic foot operated unit

For the cylinder you can convert a bottle jack fairly easily and there are plans on the net to show you how

 

[Bretny]

Just get an air operated bottle jack. It will do all you need and cost alot less than the 120v ones.

 

[dwall174]

Just get an air operated bottle jack.

I'm starting to lean that way, It seems like there's a good selection of the combo units available in Europe/UK but not much here in the US

I did find a big cylinder (6" Bore 2" Ram) designed for making a hydraulic press & it would work good with the 3600 PSI hand pump I mentioned in post #12, But it looks like it's only available in Canada?

Doug

 

[fiftyv8]

Nice, it sound like you need to take a drive north then.
Exchange rate will help you as well.

 

[dwall174]

Nice, it sound like you need to take a drive north then

Actually that would be South
It's sort of like one of those trick trivia questions.

Detroit To Windsor

Doug

 

[fiftyv8]

Got me...

 

[motofool33]

since were on the press subject ive been trying to figure out if using multiple bottle jacks multiplys the force

like swags unit that uses 3 x 20 ton jacks that they say is a 60ton unit

 

[matt_i]

since were on the press subject ive been trying to figure out if using multiple bottle jacks multiplys the force

like swags unit that uses 3 x 20 ton jacks that they say is a 60ton unit

Well, its additive. Or multiply in quantity.

I saw the image (there doesn't seem to be a product) but in a press-brake its important that the travel distance is the same from end-to-end of the moving die if you desire a uniform bend angle. Their image seems to suggest that each jack strokes independently rather than simply tying all of the cylinders to a common manifold (bad idea in this app). It should work well for the distance traveled, the variation would come in differences in the pump stroke volume between different jacks that could add up over many strokes.

https://images.app.goo.gl/z6wW8NCTydLKp7bL8

 

[chaosracing]

I have a large press I picked up from a salvage yard. Took a chance on it since I knew it wasnt working at the time. I only paid $125 for it and its a large 40 to 50 ton press (traditional bed plates are to small for it) I did get the cylinder worked on, but its still not working. Before I throw more money at it, I was contemplating selling it as is, or refurbing what I have.
I think I will refurbish what I have. I looked at other units with same capabilities (including HF 50 ton one) and they are more expensive then what I would have into it.
Unfortunatly the pressure head and pump have been alluding me, as it has others. To bad we can not get the ones from Australia or Canada shipped here.
But while I was looking, I had a idea. I can get parts from Harbour Freight for just about any of their stuff. So I pull up the parts diagram for their 50 ton press, get the part numbers for their pressure head and air/hydraulic pump. I have to call and see if available, but the pressure head is $187.37 and the pump is $120.45 Not sure about shipping costs. I would forgo the hoses since its not a direct application, plus I have a local hydraulic shop that can make hoses for me.

 

[Garage Junkie]

If you guys happen to find your way to Cleveland, you should take a look at what HGR has in inventory- there is a whole row dedicated to hydraulic power units and tons of valves, guages, etc. Some of these hydraulic units are quite large and they aren't asking much for them. You can buy online and they will ship, but the cost of shipping might erode some of the savings.

Link to their hydraulics pages-

https://hgrinc.com/surplus/pumps/?g...t=&kw=&per_page=24&min_price=&max_price=&pn=1

 

[dwall174]

I had a idea. I can get parts from Harbor Freight for just about any of their stuff. So I pull up the parts diagram for their 50 ton press,

I was thinking the same way but using a Grizzly 50 ton ram & the HF foot pedal air/hydraulic pump. The Grizzly air/hydraulic pump is priced really high around $470 But the ram part# PT27978023 is only $138

Doug

 

[dwall174]

If you guys happen to find your way to Cleveland, you should take a look at what HGR has in inventory

I've been there a bunch of times & have found some good deals, But I recently got rid of my old 3/4 ton Chevy pick-up & now I have a Chevy Trailblazer.
There's a little bit of room in the Trailblazer with the seats down, But I've been looking for a small heavy duty utility trailer just for reasons like a HGR run!

Doug

 

[chaosracing]

I was thinking the same way but using a Grizzly 50 ton ram & the HF foot pedal air/hydraulic pump. The Grizzly air/hydraulic pump is priced really high around $470 But the ram part# PT27978023 is only $138

Doug

Wish they had a picture of the ram, because I am wondering after seeing the parts diagram, if they include the springs, plate. I know the one from HF is to have everything.
There is a salvage yard near me that has hydraulic stuff. Probably going to stop there early this week and see what they have, but the problem is unless it has a tag from manufacturer, there is no way to tell what it is.

 

[dwall174]

Wish they had a picture of the ram, because I am wondering after seeing the parts diagram, if they include the springs, plate. I know the one from HF is to have everything.

I don't think the springs or spring plate are included with the ram.
Springs are listed as $19 ea. & the spring plate is $4

They also list the pressure gauge & mounting ring part# PT27978022 for $67.50

Doug

 

[chaosracing]

Just checked and Grizzly is same price for pressure head, springs and spring plate(HF is all together as a unit). Probably easier to order from Grizzly than from HF.

I struck out at the salvage yard. They cleaned house a little and guess that stuff went since it sat there for a few years. Figures, I finally need something and they get rid of it.

 

[66cj225]

You need better connections with an industrial scrapper.