Hydraulic system

[Mhardee86]

I'm having some issues with the hydraulic pump/controls on this backhoe. I'm not able to find much info online and would need help locating the pump and where to add more fluid. I also heard that instead of hydraulic fluid you can use brake fluid??

I believe the cap by the gear sticks are for the transmission. The cluster of hoses are by the second cap in the first picture. This cap is also towards the rear and between the 2 wheels and above the rear axle. Would this be where the hydraulic fluid is?

 

[youngleo]

The hydraulic fluid is usually in a very large tank (30 gallons?) that is integrated in to the frame/body. Large pipe thread cap that you will need a wrench to unscrew. It should be pretty tight. Probably leaking a little fluid. Brake fluid works but its pretty expensive and comes in small amounts. You will need to replace gallons likely. Tractor supply sells "tractor hydraulic fluid" for less than $50 per 5 gallon pale. That is the best way to go. Hope this helps. I have a Ford A62 and this has been my experience. Be careful it is a pressurized tank when running. Also if your proportional valve is leaking, your system could lose pressure when you take the cap off and a raised bucket could drop or fall.

 

[kbs2244]

the make and model of the backhoe would be helpful information

 

[jack stand]

I'd look for a way to check the proper level of transmission oil first. It may be a threaded plug on the side or even on the rear axle. Then you might get lucky and find a dipstick. Often the pump is internal to the transmission/rear lubrication.
That is if you don't find an obvious external tank like youngleo suggested.

 

[Sumboodie]

Brake fluid in a hydraulic system?

Never heard that one. They aren't compatible.

 

[purplezr2]

Based on a the serial number appears to be a Ford 4400 backhoe, 70's Model?

Have you tried NH parts site?

 

[jayemm]

That's scary. Brake fluid is asking for damage. You do not want to use it. Nightmare in the making. It lacks the lubricity, film strength and anti-wear additives of hydraulic fluid. Pump failure would put metal pieces throughout the system. Just the thing for hydraulic motors, valves and actuator seals. Find out the proper fluid fluid and use that.

 

[KenB]

Try this.

FORD 4000 SERIES SHOP MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Ford 4000 Series shop manual online. 4000 Series tractor pdf manual download. Also for: 2000 series, 3000 series, 3100, 4110, 4140, 2110, 2100.

www.manualslib.com

 

[youngleo]

That's scary. Brake fluid is asking for damage. You do not want to use it. Nightmare in the making. It lacks the lubricity, film strength and anti-wear additives of hydraulic fluid. Pump failure would put metal pieces throughout the system. Just the thing for hydraulic motors, valves and actuator seals. Find out the proper fluid fluid and use that.

Brake fluid comes in quarts. This backhoe probably has a 40 gallon resevoir for hydraulic fluid. I don't really think that the concentration would be enough to break anything down. Having said that, Hydraulic fluid is 1/20 the price so it really is not even a consideration. Pure brake fluid in a hydraulic system would probably do far less damage that the cup of rust that is in the hydraulic fluid now. This is a 50 year old piece of construction equipment. If we are concerned about pump life for a nominally diluted mixture of brake fluid in the hydraulic resevoir, we should probably put a flash light in there and see how much water and rust is in there.

Also, you are right. No brake fluid in the hydraulic resevoir. Everything you said is accurate. Just wanted to put this particular use in persepctive? I digress....

 

[cvairwerks]

Ford 4400 or 4410, will depend on the front axle as to which one it is. Manuals can be had in various places, here's the first I came across:

Ford 3400, 3500, 3550, 4400, and 4500 Industrial Tractors Manual

This manual is for Ford industrial tractors models 3400, 3500, 3550, 4400, and 4500.

farmmanualsfast.com

 

[nadogail]

I am glad you asked your questions. I emphasize to my clients that “Dumb Questions are are much easier to handle than Dumb Mistakes” unfortunately I have no personal knowledge of your tractor.

 

[bb29510]

brake fluid is hydraulic fluid, in the old days you put in your power steering. i wouldnt use it just because of the price

 

[Sumboodie]

brake fluid is hydraulic fluid, in the old days you put in your power steering. i wouldnt use it just because of the price

Brake fluid is A hydraulic fluid, but so is water and tons of other things

Most brake fluid is glycerin and alcohol (glycol) and isn't compatible with hydraulic oil.

Don't know on steering, I haven't worked on many older than 1970s that had power steering. They've all used hydraulic oil (aka power steering fluid) or ATF.

 

[chris142]

If it's low you have a leak. It doesn't evaporate like water. I have heard of guys putting a small amount of brake fluid in there hoping to slow a leaking seal.

I don't recommend that. Different machines use different fluids. We have Deere stuff where I work and some use motor oil in the hydraulics and others use a specific (expensive) Deere fluid.

I would check with the manual if you can find one or a forum for your specific model.

 

[Alcap]

Years ago I had a 3400 Ford , if I remember correctly the front loader frame was also the hydraulic reservoir and on the right side of the loader frame was a threaded cap with a vent on top which you would fill using regular hydraulic fluid . If yo take a picture we could verify this .

 

[Mhardee86]

Years ago I had a 3400 Ford , if I remember correctly the front loader frame was also the hydraulic reservoir and on the right side of the loader frame was a threaded cap with a vent on top which you would fill using regular hydraulic fluid . If yo take a picture we could verify this .

 

[Mhardee86]

I believe I was able to find it. Now how do I check and fill the fluid reservoir?

 

[KenB]

RTFM

 

[Mhardee86]

RTFM

Please share the correct manual

 

[KenB]

Posts 8 and 10.

 

[Wrench97]

Do you have a separate hydraulic pump for the back hoe or does the it use the tractors system which would be Tractor/Trans Hydraulic Oil ?
Most use the front end loader frame as the hydraulic tank is there a breather cap on the top of the left pillar?

 

[Mhardee86]

Do you have a separate hydraulic pump for the back hoe or does the it use the tractors system which would be Tractor/Trans Hydraulic Oil ?
Most use the front end loader frame as the hydraulic tank is there a breather cap on the top of the left pillar?

Share the cap on the left side of the frame #17

 

[Alcap]

That’s the same as my Ford was , if you retract all the cylinders and fill to about 6” from the top should get you “ in the ballpark “ until you can find an operators manual .

 

[Wrench97]

Usually 6-8" below the opening.

 

[zendriver]

That chew d up plug would be my guess where the filler hole is

Start dumping it in and see if anything starts moving?

I have some manuals I’ll take a look tonight and see if they cover this loader

 

[Mhardee86]

That chew d up plug would be my guess where the filler hole is

Start dumping it in and see if anything starts moving?

I have some manuals I’ll take a look tonight and see if they cover this loader

Thank you!

 

[zendriver]

Thank you!

Tractor supply and those types of stores are usually your best bet for 5 gallon buckets of hydraulic oil

Your model tractor repair manual will be useful probably won’t have any information about the loader which the one I have are separate manual

 

[nadogail]

Hydraulic systems that don’t show evidence of leaking are probably empty.

 

[Spareparts]

Not to long ago Tractor Supply Co. was involved in a class action lawsuit for one of their brands of Hydraulic Oil,
It was a blend of several different types of oil, some used oils and filtered to clean it up. I can remember it was about $10.00
less for a 5 gal bucket, The only thing I can remember about it was it had #300 on the label. It was causing severe problems with
hydrostatic drives. Also effected the seals on cylinders. Cheap oil isn"t always cheap.

 

[nadogail]

Sometimes FREE Stuff costs you the most.

 

[zendriver]

Not to long ago Tractor Supply Co. was involved in a class action lawsuit for one of their brands of Hydraulic Oil,
It was a blend of several different types of oil, some used oils and filtered to clean it up. I can remember it was about $10.00
less for a 5 gal bucket, The only thing I can remember about it was it had #300 on the label. It was causing severe problems with
hydrostatic drives. Also effected the seals on cylinders. Cheap oil isn"t always cheap.

Maybe the Op can get the oil from his nearby Ford tractor dealership.

That lawsuit was from 10 years ago and covered several differen farm stores brands. Presumably it’s been corrected..

Last bucket I purchased was almost $60 (didn’t seem that cheap )so I guess one has to decide how much money they want to invest in a 60 year old loader , and probably already has bad seals

 

[chris142]

I believe I was able to find it. Now how do I check and fill the fluid reservoir?

Unscrew it. Might have a dipstick under it.

 

[zendriver]

I have a manual for the 740 loader only. Yours might be a 730 or 735 model.

look on the internet for some pics of the different models.

Does any of this looks familiar? The video in incredibly painful to watch, but does have some good information.

 

[Mhardee86]

Thank you for the information. I checked where the hydraulic fluid goes into the frame for the front loader. It's no where close to 6-8in from the top. I would say 15-20 in from the top.
The front loader may take a few seconds before it move while I'm controlling the lever for the front loader. I'm wondering if it's the pump itself or the filter.

 

[nadogail]

Perhaps there is air in the system that needs to compress before the force is transmitted to the cylinder?

 

[Wrench97]

Did you fill the hydro tank?

 

[Mhardee86]

No. Not yet. I've not had a chance to add to it. I do remember the last time it was used the front loader was sluggish. It would take a few sec for the loader to move once I messed with the levers

 

[Sumboodie]

Not to long ago Tractor Supply Co. was involved in a class action lawsuit for one of their brands of Hydraulic Oil,
It was a blend of several different types of oil, some used oils and filtered to clean it up. I can remember it was about $10.00
less for a 5 gal bucket, The only thing I can remember about it was it had #300 on the label. It was causing severe problems with
hydrostatic drives. Also effected the seals on cylinders. Cheap oil isn"t always cheap.

303

Decent hydraulic oil is around $15-20 a gallon these days.
Some of the fancy stuff is near $50

 

[Firebrick43]

Hydraulic systems that don’t show evidence of leaking are probably empty.

Or well maintained. My 67 John Deere was leaking some so I went thru this spring and replaced ever seal and o ring from the pump header tank to the rear remote coupler and everything in between.

Doesn’t leak any more once you get rid of all the rock hard o rings and seals.

 

[KenC]

Not to long ago Tractor Supply Co. was involved in a class action lawsuit for one of their brands of Hydraulic Oil,
It was a blend of several different types of oil, some used oils and filtered to clean it up. I can remember it was about $10.00
less for a 5 gal bucket, The only thing I can remember about it was it had #300 on the label. It was causing severe problems with
hydrostatic drives. Also effected the seals on cylinders. Cheap oil isn"t always cheap.

That was a specific oil, 303. It's label clearly showed the specs and usage. No hydrostats or any modern tractor speced that oil. Guys/Gals bought because it was cheap and used it in spite of it not being correct for their equipment. Like someone said earlier RTFM, not you but all those folks that ruined equipment by using the wrong fluid. As I recall the makeup spec for that originally include whale oil! Obviously it has not been the same formulation for a while, a long while.

That doesn't absolve the seller from blame, but the culprits were not the retailers, but the company blending and marking it as 303.