Hydraulic Tools

[Zaylor]

Do you think someday soon we'll see shops plumbed for hydraulics right alongside the pneumatic lines?

Tools like these:

http://www.stanleyhydraulic.com/Products/ChainSaws/tabid/139/Default.aspx
(seems hopeless to me as you'd be tethered to a heavy hydraulic line)

or more realistically

http://www.torqlite.com/info02.html


Just wondering what you think

 

[Jbizzle]

That's interesting. Never seen tools like that before. I guess they have their place in the industrial world but I do not think they would be practical in the home garage. Imagine a line busting and having hydraulic fluid all over your garage! Yikes!!!

 

[Jbullfrog]

Shops that need 60,000 ft/lbs of torque have hydraulic tools. The chain saw in your first link is for cutting concrete and powered from a machine (skid-loader, back-hoe, etc) or truck unit. Hydraulic tools are used where electric isn't practical due to wet service, and air isn't practical due to torque.

 

[Zaylor]

Shops that need 60,000 ft/lbs of torque have hydraulic tools. The chain saw in your first link is for cutting concrete and powered from a machine (skid-loader, back-hoe, etc) or truck unit. Hydraulic tools are used where electric isn't practical due to wet service, and air isn't practical due to torque.

Great info. Thank you.

 

[A_Pmech]

Hydraulic chainsaws are soooooo much nicer to use than gas saws. Once you use one you'll never go back to a gasser.

 

[youngridge]

We rented the hydraulic chainsaw for cutting out concrete, I was alway scared of cutting the hoses.

 

[bigfunwmu]

We do a fair bit of work for a local tree removal company. All their bucket trucks have hydraulically powered stick saws [chain saw on a stick] that they operate while in the bucket. A bunch of the rail road work crews also have hydraulic QDs on their truck to operate hydraulically powered impact wrenches and other tools. The main benefit of these tools is they provide convenient portable power in an environment that lacks the things you would find in a shop, like compressed air and electricity.

These tend to be very basic systems, one pump, one valve, one tool. To build a multiple tool system would be more complicated if you wanted to use more than one tool at a time and not blow them up with overspeed.

I could design you a nice shop hydraulic system, plan on spending a LOT more than an air system of similar usable capacity. It would really do the deal though.

Based on all the small air leaks the average large shop has, I see the potential for a hydraulic system running along the walls of a shop being one hell of a mess.

Also, there is a great deal of difference between the mobile 3000 PSI hydraulic tools and the industrial 10,000 PSI stuff.

 

[Zaylor]

Hydraulic chainsaws are soooooo much nicer to use than gas saws. Once you use one you'll never go back to a gasser.

Are we talking a machine attachment or something handheld?

 

[A_Pmech]

Are we talking a machine attachment or something handheld?

Handheld.

One of my projects is to build a 10HP hydraulic chainsaw similar to the Stanley design. The most complicated part of the whole project is modifying a throttle valve. Everything else is off the shelf stuff and the only parts to make is the saw body from 3/4" aluminum plate and the chain sprocket.

 

[Zaylor]

We do a fair bit of work for a local tree removal company. All their bucket trucks have hydraulically powered stick saws [chain saw on a stick] that they operate while in the bucket. A bunch of the rail road work crews also have hydraulic QDs on their truck to operate hydraulically powered impact wrenches and other tools. The main benefit of these tools is they provide convenient portable power in an environment that lacks the things you would find in a shop, like compressed air and electricity.

These tend to be very basic systems, one pump, one valve, one tool. To build a multiple tool system would be more complicated if you wanted to use more than one tool at a time and not blow them up with overspeed.

I could design you a nice shop hydraulic system, plan on spending a LOT more than an air system of similar usable capacity. It would really do the deal though.

Based on all the small air leaks the average large shop has, I see the potential for a hydraulic system running along the walls of a shop being one hell of a mess.

Also, there is a great deal of difference between the mobile 3000 PSI hydraulic tools and the industrial 10,000 PSI stuff.

What other kinds of tools do they use that would fall in the "mobile 3000 PSI" range? Those are more the type I was imagining.

And if you can have a piece of equipment or a ship with a solid hydraulic system, I don't see why not a shop.... Granted, I have worked on a fishing vessel and seen all of the hydraulic problems that can happen.

 

[Zaylor]

Handheld.

One of my projects is to build a 10HP hydraulic chainsaw similar to the Stanley design. The most complicated part of the whole project is modifying a throttle valve. Everything else is off the shelf stuff and the only parts to make is the saw body from 3/4" aluminum plate and the chain sprocket.

Very cool! Exactly the sort of thing I hoped to hear about in this thread.

Please tell about your difficulty with the throttle valve. Isn't it just a needle valve?

Is this thing going to be practical if you're always tied to hyd lines?

 

[arms1970]

I use a hydro torque. On large valves and flanges.

 

[A_Pmech]

Very cool! Exactly the sort of thing I hoped to hear about in this thread.

Please tell about your difficulty with the throttle valve. Isn't it just a needle valve?

Is this thing going to be practical if you're always tied to hyd lines?

The difficulty is no valve manufacturer I've found builds an off-the-shelf or special order lightweight aluminum balanced pressure hydraulic flow control. Like most industrial hydraulics, they're huge blocky things that weigh 10lbs all by themselves. I can find lightweight high speed hydraulic motors, so that's not a problem. If I move forward with the project I'll have to make my own throttle valve. It's high tolerance work, but not complicated. I'd just prefer it be a parts bin project.

Sure! I've been on a yard machines simplification bent since my last chainsaw blew up. I'm tired of playing mechanic on a dozen small engines.

IIRC from my notebook, the supply line will be 100' of 1/2" and the return 100' of 3/4" low pressure hose in a hose jacket. I figured a saw weight under 10lbs with 10HP at the chain is readily achievable. The most powerful Stihl is 8.6HP from the factory, so I'd say it would be just fine performance-wise.

 

[Zaylor]

The difficulty is no valve manufacturer I've found builds an off-the-shelf or special order lightweight aluminum balanced pressure hydraulic flow control. Like most industrial hydraulics, they're huge blocky things that weigh 10lbs all by themselves. I can find lightweight high speed hydraulic motors, so that's not a problem. If I move forward with the project I'll have to make my own throttle valve. It's high tolerance work, but not complicated. I'd just prefer it be a parts bin project.

Sure! I've been on a yard machines simplification bent since my last chainsaw blew up. I'm tired of playing mechanic on a dozen small engines.

IIRC from my notebook, the supply line will be 100' of 1/2" and the return 100' of 3/4" low pressure hose in a hose jacket. I figured a saw weight under 10lbs with 10HP at the chain is readily achievable. The most powerful Stihl is 8.6HP from the factory, so I'd say it would be just fine performance-wise.

About how heavy are the lines (per foot)? About as heavy as 8 AWG stranded jumper cables?

Even 8.6 HP is insane for most (or me at least). So that would be an incredible power-to-weight ratio.

I hope you make your throttle valve and post pictures!

 

[mark52621]

The square D plant in cedar rapids used to be entirely powered by hydraulics. At some point upper management decided to switch to pneumatics.

My uncle was a millwright there, and I believe was in charge of the changeover. According to him the hydraulic systems were far superior. More powerful, dependable, and cheaper to run.

 

[BLACK DEATH]

We use hydraulic tools from Stanley for underground utility water work.
Torque n can work wet is key....
The hydraulic chainsaw works perfect for cutting pipe also

 

[bigfunwmu]

What other kinds of tools do they use that would fall in the "mobile 3000 PSI" range? Those are more the type I was imagining.

And if you can have a piece of equipment or a ship with a solid hydraulic system, I don't see why not a shop.... Granted, I have worked on a fishing vessel and seen all of the hydraulic problems that can happen.

All kinds of stuff really:

Impact wrench, Auger, Tamper, Pruner, Chainsaw, Drills


Just from Stanley http://www.stanleyhydraulic.com/Products/HandheldHydraulicTools.aspx are all kinds of things. Most of them are out-doors kind of tools instead of shop stuff.

Most of the equipment with hydraulic systems does not run multiple tools at the same time. In the shop right now, we have a little tracked machine with a boom on it that disables all other hydraulic functions when the tool circuit is activated in the bucket. Several of the bucket trucks that company has do this also. Running multiple tools at the same time is possible, but the cost goes up to make it all work together.

---

If you use poly lines instead of regular steel cored rubber hoses, the weight of the hoses is pretty small. They also resist corrosion in wet or hostile conditions well. Down side is you can cut them with your pocket knife so they must be sleeved for use with a saw or you get to replace them regularly.

As for trigger controls, Stanley seems to machine their own into the housings of the tools they build. Most of them are pretty basic, however the ones in the drills and impacts are a little more complicated. Not a lot of options out there for a guy building his own though.

If you are building your own stuff for shop use where you don't have to haul it around as much, there are a few more options. Most of them are pretty bulky still.