Hydronic electric cost per month

[BTI]

Wow Just got the bill a few days ago....

Holy ****.....with all the B.S. added together, the KWH end up costing .12 each.
The bill for approx 14 days of heat, $231.00

So far since the 24th of Dec I have used 2453 KWH
At .12 per KWH so far i have used $294.36 worth of elec...
OUCH

So far I have no overhead insulation in the building.
I do have 4" of styro from floor to ceiling and all doors are insulated.
Do you think insulating the ceiling will make a big enough difference to make it a bearable bill.
Is there something up with my microboiler? Other issue?

The boiler is putting in 95 degree water and its returning at around 75 degrees.
Pressure is at 22lbs, taco pump set on the middle setting.

It has been a pretty cold windy winter so far but dang....

Thanks,
BTI

 

[Stinger]

Heat rises and you don't have any insulation up there...that's the biggest problem.

 

[rickairmedic]

Yes it has been cold and yes you need to insulate the ceiling as Stinger said heat rises and yours is going right out through the roof.

Rick

 

[BTI]

It does have the bubble wrap stuff. Which is only there basically as a vapor barrier.
Oh and the thermostat is set at 54.

BTI

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Problems in order:

1. Poor Insulation
2. Electrical resistance heat

Question: Did you insulate under your slab?

Phil

 

[BTI]

Problems in order:

1. Poor Insulation Tryin to get the cash together to blow some foam LOL
2. Electrical resistance heat Propane is not practical for my app and all thats available

Question: Did you insulate under your slab? Yes 2" under and around perimeter

Phil

I may have to break out the CC and get it foamed instead of waiting on cash.

BTI

 

[Weedwaka]

Wow Just got the bill a few days ago....

Holy ****.....with all the B.S. added together, the KWH end up costing .12 each.
The bill for approx 14 days of heat, $231.00

So far since the 24th of Dec I have used 2453 KWH
At .12 per KWH so far i have used $294.36 worth of elec...
OUCH

So far I have no overhead insulation in the building.
I do have 4" of styro from floor to ceiling and all doors are insulated.
Do you think insulating the ceiling will make a big enough difference to make it a bearable bill.
Is there something up with my microboiler? Other issue?

The boiler is putting in 95 degree water and its returning at around 75 degrees.
Pressure is at 22lbs, taco pump set on the middle setting.

It has been a pretty cold windy winter so far but dang....

Thanks,
BTI

YIKES !!

Well at least you insulated under the slab.

If it doesnt improve much with insulation, I would look into a remote wood boiler ( outside unit ). Those are sweet for high heat loss apps like this. 5 - 10k investment, but with that kind of cost its a quicker pay back. Plus you dont have to worry about teh costs of keeping things real warm and toasty. Central boiler makes pretty good ones http://www.centralboiler.com/

This is what I want to do when we build the home and greenhouse. Hello heated driveway

 

[tdkkart]

First, if you waited till Dec 24th to turn the system on, you probably burned 1/2 a month's worth of power just getting the slab up to temp the first time. It takes ALOT of BTUs to raise the temp of that concrete slab even a couple degrees, 30-40 degrees takes an obscene amount.

Yes, not having ceiling insulation is a BIG part of your issue right now.

Heating with electric is gonna be expensive, 3-4x what natural gas would cost.
The only thing you can do is insulate the **** out of everything and hope for warm weather.

BTW, I know exactly where you're coming from, I'm heating a 30x40x12, looks like it's gonna take about 1600kw this month to keep it at 50-55*.

 

[BTI]

I didn't get the boiler installed until Dec
So that screwed me some I'm sure.....
1600 KWH I'd be happy wth compared to what I have now....

BTI

 

[Weedwaka]

I guess you dont want to know that we used only 4 cubic feet of gas to get our 1600 sq foot slab up to temp when we first turned it on. It only calls for heat once every 2 - 3 days and runs for about 4 hours when it does. When it tops up it looks like its using 2 - 3 depending on outside temps. In fairness though, we have ICF walls and a heated suite upstairs so the concrete wasnt -15c like outside. The concrete itself was probably 0 or 5 degrees already. ICF's are crazy.

 

[Gary S]

Unless you can afford to heat the great outdoors, insulate first and heat second.

 

[premierplayer]

4" styrofoam in the walls?

4" Dow Corning Blueboard 'Styrofoam" R value 2.0
that's not good.
For the walls 4" FG batt = R-13, ceiling at R-30 or more would be a good starting point.

Me thinks you need to address some insulation issues.

Bet the snow dosn't stay on the roof long

 

[Weedwaka]

Isn't dow xps / owens pink xps - r5 per inch ( provided the air is not just moving around it ) ?

 

[tdkkart]

How do you like this for promoting energy conservation??
Below is electric rate chart off of my latest bill for my shop. What they do is divide the months useage into useage/day, by which they came up with me using 48KW/day.
THEN, they charge based on the useage in each day.
So, you'll see that the first 16.438KW every day costs me 10.7 cents/KW, but notice what happens when I go over 40KW/day.
Yep, the rate drops by more than 1/2, so basically they're rewarding me for being an energy hog.

And no, I don't know why they do the rate/day thing, I haven't sat down and figured it out, but I'm sure it's a method to charge me more.


WINTER 1ST STEP 16.438 KWH X 31 DAYS X $.10697
WINTER 2ND STEP 23.014 KWH X 31 DAYS X $.08469
WINTER 3RD STEP 8.580 KWH X 31 DAYS X $.04784

 

[Gary S]

4" styrofoam in the walls?

4" Dow Corning Blueboard 'Styrofoam" R value 2.0
that's not good.
:

If that is all 4" Dow foam is, it is junk.
The foil faced styrene foam is R6.5 per inch, so you can easily get an R25 wall with 4" of it.

 

[BTI]

The Dow Blue Board (XEPS) is R-5 for 1" and I have 4" so it is R-20 in the walls up to 4'.
I think premierplayer has the . in the wrong place LOL
Then I am using the white EPS from there to the ceiling. It has an R value of 3.85 per inch. Making the walls from 4' to 12' R-15.4.
Each sheet was cut too fit VERY tight.
Later on it will have OSB and 5/8ths drywall over that.

You really gotta look at the numbers when shopping when it comes to foam insulations.
Not all foil faced has the high R value, there are different kinds of foam inside the foil.
They all can have different R values.
The foil faced styrene is actually 3.9 per inch, it's the polyisocyanurate foam core that is 6.5 per inch

tdkkart-that is pretty crazy for sure....Use more electric....you save money--

BTI

 

[tdkkart]

tdkkart-that is pretty crazy for sure....Use more electric....you save money--

Yep, and here's the bad part. My house and shop are on seperate meters, so figured seperately. If they were together they would use about 2500KW/month, meaning a much bigger chunk of my heating use would be at half price.

 

[Jackfre]

What is your heat loss on the radiant shop? Radiant is the ideal app for solar if you are set-up for it. As well, there are starting to be a lot of hydronic heat pumps hitting the market. I haven't had my hands on one yet, but I know that Daikin has one on the market.

I'm currently heating an underinsulated place. I feel your pain!