I did it!!! PVC air line post

[CARS]

What??? Ya. I added PVC to my 1" black metal pipe system!

I had a ball valve on a drop that was leaking. Went to the local farm and fleet store and they wanted over $20.00 for the valve. Looked farther down the isle and saw a 1" PVC valve for $6.00.

Hmmm.... seems like a no brainer till i find a cheaper source for a brass valve.

Flame suit is on! Think I will live for a few weeks???

 

[54FordPanel]

Here we go........


(Where's that 'eating popcorn' emicon?)

 

[archirelic]

I guess now we know the price of our safety!!

 

[Shadowdog500]

 

[Outlawmws]

Are you realy sure you want PVC in your system?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137986

 

[geologist]

At least polyvinyl chloride shrapnel won't rust inside of you.

 

[Pro-Painter]

Although I don't recommend anyone else do it, Ive been running 1" sch-80 (dark gray) PVC air line for 5 years now without a single issue. No leaks and it's been hit with doors, tools, floor jack handles etc.

Just make sure you use the sch-80 pipe and fittings (700psi max/1400psi burst), quality glue, a steel lead line and keep the sun off of it.

I covered mine with a rigid foam insulation and black duct tape, so if it ever does decide to bust, the insulation should hold most (if not all) of it in. So far 5 years at 155psi 24/7 it has held up great and cost less then $100.

 

[bigdummy30]

when my uncles blew he wasnt home and it almost burned up his compressor....

 

[tonycastec]

I used to work for one of the larger producers of PVC pipe. Let's make a few things clear:
Is it pvc or HDPE? or nylon or...?All plastic pipe is not pvc.
First make sure there is no oil getting into the pvc pipe.I mean absolutely none!
If you must use pvc, use Sch 80, not 40. Check the specs to compare the two.
Primer all joints perfectly.
Don't expose to sunlight.If it is exposed use Uvr Sch 80.
We routinely tested the burst pressure of the pipe as a statutory requirement. We used a water bath for the test pipe. It was difficult to get any compressor to burst the Sch 80!
I can still get SCH 80 pvc and cpvc very cheaply.But I won't be using it. I'll use Pex-Al_Pex. The problems with pvc are with oil contamination &/or Sch 40 pvc &/or uv exposure &/or incorrect priming of joints & paranoia/confusion about"plastic" pipe.

 

[srmofo]

Although I don't recommend anyone else do it, Ive been running 1" sch-80 (dark gray) PVC air line for 5 years now without a single issue. No leaks and it's been hit with doors, tools, floor jack handles etc.

Just make sure you use the sch-80 pipe and fittings (700psi max/1400psi burst), quality glue, a steel lead line and keep the sun off of it.

I covered mine with a rigid foam insulation and black duct tape, so if it ever does decide to bust, the insulation should hold most (if not all) of it in. So far 5 years at 155psi 24/7 it has held up great and cost less then $100.

you're kidding right?. Now Im not going to lecture you on pvc safety because that **** is a dead horse, but do you really think duct tape and foam is going to keep an explosion of 155psi contained? I got news for ya, it wont if the worst happens.

 

[Pro-Painter]

you're kidding right?. Now Im not going to lecture you on pvc safety because that **** is a dead horse, but do you really think duct tape and foam is going to keep an explosion of 155psi contained? I got news for ya, it wont if the worst happens.

Normal pvc I would agree with you. And I do share your concern. I was not excited about the idea of it at first. But after I bought some to torcher, I changed my mind about it. And I planed for the worst as I installed it.

This sch-80 (sch80 is the same a black iron pipe) has 3/8" thick walls, It's not going to burst in to tiny pieces. If anything, it will split or a fitting will fail first. Between the super thick walls, the way I have it wrapped & supported, and the fact that it's being used at only 1/10 of the rated burst pressure, I trust it completely. I'm still not saying it is the right thing to do, and the danger factor is always a concern. But it can be safely contained if you plan for it. I spent more on wrap, tape, (huge)zip ties and wall supports then I did the pipe & fittings.

 

[BWS]

H*ll,I don't even like the chit for water lines.........


What confuses me....and I'm serious....headscratchin,curious?Why some folks have such a problem with runnin Black pipe?I see exactly the same thing in woodpecker world with dust collection systems....choosing plastic sewer pipe over metal.

What the heck is it with metal that makes some folks just freak out? BW

 

[geologist]

you're kidding right?. Now Im not going to lecture you on pvc safety because that **** is a dead horse, but do you really think duct tape and foam is going to keep an explosion of 155psi contained? I got news for ya, it wont if the worst happens.

I work in geology and one of the things I've seen is the use of what essentially amounts to foam being used to seal abandoned portions of mines. When Sago exploded a few years ago, the seals were designed to hold back a 50 +/- PSI static explosion. The Sago blast topped out at around 90 PSI in some areas of the mine, but many other areas weren't nearly as high (some in the high teens to mid 30s). Even in those areas, the mine seals were all but obliterated (for the most part). Foam and duct tape sounds nice in theory, but I wouldn't bet my life or livelyhood on it.

150 psi tire failure:

 

[djjsr]

Hmmm.... seems like a no brainer ..........

I agree.

 

[thesilverone]

in for the after explosion pics

 

[Stuart in MN]

A sign of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome.

 

[CARS]

I love PVC posts. That is why I posted my temporary fix till I can find a reasonably priced brass valve.

Seems like no one really reads the posts do they???

Thanks for your concern, but I think it will work for a couple weeks. All it has to do is hold back air.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Awesome! I love temp fix ideas!

I recently was changing the brake fluid in my truck, had the MC down half way before I realized I had no new fluid. I did however have some bottled water in the fridge, so I used that! I figure when i get paid next week I can replace the water with real fluid.....


This was just a joke, not meant to offend.....

 

[Your Father]

Awesome! I love temp fix ideas!

I recently was changing the brake fluid in my truck, had the MC down half way before I realized I had no new fluid. I did however have some bottled water in the fridge, so I used that! I figure when i get paid next week I can replace the water with real fluid.....


This was just a joke, not meant to offend.....

Hey! There are no jokes, witty comments, perceived negative comments (even if joking), or off topic comments allowed here. These are all ban-able offenses.

 

[mrstrictlygm]

If the pvc ball valve has female threads, do not thread a metalic fitting into it. You are better off glueing it. The metalic fitting threads will expand and contract and cause the Plastic ball valve to break leading to a very dangerous situation.

 

[Toolbag]

 

[Outlawmws]

I love PVC posts. That is why I posted my temporary fix till I can find a reasonably priced brass valve.

Seems like no one really reads the posts do they???

Thanks for your concern, but I think it will work for a couple weeks. All it has to do is hold back air.

So I'll ask what I think is a relevant question:

Is this valve a drain valve, or up high in the drop manifold where there may be a lot of leverage applied? If the latter and the manifold is not securely anchored to prevent a bending moment of force on the valve, I think you are being incredibly reckless, as a PVC valve will have almost NO strength to resist that kind of force.

Even if it is at the end of the line, just turning it on and off, if it is tight, may provide enough force to fracture it. A plastic vale is expected to be supported on both sides so the bending moment is minimized. Moreover, it is designed for a liquid pressure, not an air gas pressure which in failure mode react completely differently.

Lastly, if it is the drain valve, why do you need a 1" ball valve to begin with? adapt it down to something small and cheap in METAL and use a screw type valve instead of a ball valve...

 

[tonycastec]

The failure mode of NEW Sch 80 pvc or cpvc pipe is not to shatter. It splits open like a freeze burst in a copper pipe. We burst-tested hundreds and hundreds of samples for certification.
If the pvc is contaminated by long term exposure to oil/uv/excessive heat/excessive pressure -I have no test results. From experience ,shattering will occur if any embrittlement is produced -most likely uv & oil.
So you'd need an oil separator and an after cooler to keep the compressed air below 150 degrees. I would be reluctant to use it with a compressor that produced more than 150 psi.
In the end, it just isn't worth the hassle/risk - even if like me you can get the Sch 80 cpvc at Manufacturer cost.

 

[W650Mike]

Awesome! I love temp fix ideas!

I recently was changing the brake fluid in my truck, had the MC down half way before I realized I had no new fluid. I did however have some bottled water in the fridge, so I used that! I figure when i get paid next week I can replace the water with real fluid.....


This was just a joke, not meant to offend.....

You should schedule your brake fluid change to coincide with rotating the winter nitrogen in your tires (obviously only after checking the tire date codes.) It should go without saying; never use PVC for your shop nitrogen system.

 

[Striker]

I love PVC posts.

This entire thread to me looks like you were intending to create another "PVC vs the World" debate. You have been here long enough to know what happens when someone creates such a thread.

That is why I posted my temporary fix till I can find a reasonably priced brass valve.

The issue here is that you opted for the cheaper and far more lethal alternative to save $14.00 plus tax. The chances of it blowing are pretty low, but just think how many people have said "it's just a temporary fix" and left it alone for a few years?

You also have to take in account your time, gas, etc. You were already at the store, but decided to buy a cheaper alternative. Now you will have to spend time to find a cheaper valve somewhere else. You will then have to drive there and pick it up. You will have spent additional time and effort to "save" $14.00.

Don't forget you already put time in installing the new "temporary" valve. You will have to remove it to install the correct valve. I wouldn't be surprised with the price of fuel that you do not end up saving anything at all after you add up the fuel and time spent on the search, installation, etc.

There are times to be frugal or "cheap". Buying an inferior and potentially dangerous part to save a measly $14.00 is not the right way to save money here. In my honest opinion you should have bought the correct valve.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I love PVC posts. That is why I posted my temporary fix till I can find a reasonably priced brass valve.

Seems like no one really reads the posts do they???

Thanks for your concern, but I think it will work for a couple weeks. All it has to do is hold back air.

Thats the same as saying that it is ok to temporarily wire your commpressor using tripled up speaker wire till you can get 10 gauge wire on sale.

Chris

 

[K13]

This entire thread to me looks like you were intending to create another "PVC vs the World" debate. You have been here long enough to know what happens when someone creates such a thread.





The issue here is that you opted for the cheaper and far more lethal alternative to save $14.00 plus tax. The chances of it blowing are pretty low, but just think how many people have said "it's just a temporary fix" and left it alone for a few years?

You also have to take in account your time, gas, etc. You were already at the store, but decided to buy a cheaper alternative. Now you will have to spend time to find a cheaper valve somewhere else. You will then have to drive there and pick it up. You will have spent additional time and effort to "save" $14.00.

Don't forget you already put time in installing the new "temporary" valve. You will have to remove it to install the correct valve. I wouldn't be surprised with the price of fuel that you do not end up saving anything at all after you add up the fuel and time spent on the search, installation, etc.

There are times to be frugal or "cheap". Buying an inferior and potentially dangerous part to save a measly $14.00 is not the right way to save money here. In my honest opinion you should have bought the correct valve.

Don't forget he spent the $6.00 on the PVC one as well so even if he finds metal one for say $10.00 he has actually spent $16.00 on replacing it not including his time and gas. So the measly $14.00 dollars he save will probably be more like $4.00 or $5.00.

 

[sanddan]

H*ll,I don't even like the chit for water lines.........


What confuses me....and I'm serious....headscratchin,curious?Why some folks have such a problem with runnin Black pipe?I see exactly the same thing in woodpecker world with dust collection systems....choosing plastic sewer pipe over metal.

What the heck is it with metal that makes some folks just freak out? BW

For me it was the difficulty of getting the pipe sealed to be leak free. I leave my compressor on 24/7 so a leak free system is important to me. The more complicated the install (ie, more joints) the harder it is to get sealed. Also if you don't have a threading die you will end up buying many different pieces of pipe and fittings from the local hardware store. I switched out my system from pipe to copper which allowed me to do a very custom install with minimal tools. It's leak free and also no worries about rust in the air lines.

 

[70Chevy]

I read a sign somewhere:

Beware of the longevity of the temporary


Pass the popcorn...

 

[El Barto]

How does this look?

Last year we moved into our new 100k sqft shop and went with the grey sch 80 PVC instead of black iron. The main run is 4", with 2" drops on every support pole (22 poles). The 2" ends in a "Tee" for hoses on both sides of the pole. The hoses are standard air hose with a 1/2" PVC ball valve and brass fittings to hold everything together. Works beautifully, no problems at all.








Oh, we use this for our vacuum system. Our compressed air is black iron.

 

[cglasgow]

Awesome! I love temp fix ideas!

I recently was changing the brake fluid in my truck, had the MC down half way before I realized I had no new fluid. I did however have some bottled water in the fridge, so I used that! I figure when i get paid next week I can replace the water with real fluid.....

Bad, BAD idea. Water's no good. You should have used Coca-Cola! ;-)

 

[DekeT]

Bad, BAD idea. Water's no good. You should have used Coca-Cola! ;-)

C'mon you know coke will erode the rubber gasket. Use 7up or sprite.

 

[geologist]

If you find yourself needing a glass eye, you might save a few bucks by using a large glass marble instead. If it happens to be a cat eye marble, so much the better.

 

[Alchymist]

I'm thinking I would have capped it with a $2.00 iron cap until I got the right valve, and made do with another drop.

 

[fordbroncodave]

I love PVC posts. That is why I posted my temporary fix till I can find a reasonably priced brass valve.

Seems like no one really reads the posts do they???

Thanks for your concern, but I think it will work for a couple weeks. All it has to do is hold back air.

ball valves are being clearenced out at home depot in chaska MN, probably more then 1 home depot is changing over brands.

 

[Camper]

Why is it every time I do something temporary I am fixing it again many years later ?? Anymore I just spend the money or take the time to do it right the first time as I hate to go back and do it a second time

 

[taumac]

Not trying to cause a fight here but I have a got question. If use sch 80pvc is bad and if I read right it can handle 700psi. That being said air hoses handle 300 psi max as my 3/8 rubber line reads and we never say anything about those. I mean usually a compressor max psi is 150 to 175 anywhere but think anywhere from 100 to 120 psi in lines when regualted so thats way below rating. I can see if use sch 40 would be a problem but I was thinking of using pvc electrial conduit. Its more flexible than pvc but with 200 ft of air line I just never did it.

 

[Outlawmws]

Not trying to cause a fight here but I have a got question. If use sch 80pvc is bad and if I read right it can handle 700psi. That being said air hoses handle 300 psi max as my 3/8 rubber line reads and we never say anything about those. I mean usually a compressor max psi is 150 to 175 anywhere but think anywhere from 100 to 120 psi in lines when regualted so thats way below rating. I can see if use sch 40 would be a problem but I was thinking of using pvc electrial conduit. Its more flexible than pvc but with 200 ft of air line I just never did it.

The bottom line is that OSHA AND the(tubing/pipe industry) manufactures all agree: NEVER use anything not specifically made/certified for air/gas use. The reason is not about the capacity for holding pressure.

Its all about the energy that pressure stores, and what happens when the material breaks. It doesn't have to be the pressure that breaks it. A falling ladder, scaffold, piece of material, whatever,,, hits the relatively brittle plastic, and it shatters. Add in cold, oil contamination, sun damage... and it gets even more brittle.

PVC becomes particularly effective shrapnel. (go look at the pic in my earlier post. That was done with a fairly light hammer blow,and the stuff went EVERYWHERE, and there was NO air pressure involved...)

Back almost 40 years ago, before OSHA outlawed PVC for almost any air pressure use except underground, I was in a plant that was being plumbed with 4 to 6" PVC to carry air to work stations. It was being pressure tested and the cap on the large main pipe blew off, (the glue hadn't fully cured, or it was improperly glued ) That cap went through a wall and bashed other equipment on the other side. and that wasn't even a "catastrophic" failure...

 

[not-required]

Not trying to cause a fight here but I have a got question. If use sch 80pvc is bad and if I read right it can handle 700psi. That being said air hoses handle 300 psi max as my 3/8 rubber line reads and we never say anything about those. I mean usually a compressor max psi is 150 to 175 anywhere but think anywhere from 100 to 120 psi in lines when regualted so thats way below rating. I can see if use sch 40 would be a problem but I was thinking of using pvc electrial conduit. Its more flexible than pvc but with 200 ft of air line I just never did it.

I think its more of what happens when it fails rather than how much its rated to.

 

[junk4dummies]

you're kidding right?. Now Im not going to lecture you on pvc safety because that **** is a dead horse, but do you really think duct tape and foam is going to keep an explosion of 155psi contained? I got news for ya, it wont if the worst happens.

I will second your reply with an A-men.

Osha will not let you use it.
I ran 40 for 25 years in my shop but the pressure was never over 120 psi.
When it blows just hope you are not around. I never had problems but my friend used it in his home garage. When it blew it blasted a piece right through into the house and the grage had 5/8" drywall on the garage side and 1/2" on the inside.

The sun makes it britle. I live in California and I have left out my extra pipe for the sprinkling system. In 2 years it snaps with the cutters. It does not cut. It shatters when you cut it. Everyone is right about Oil.

Just break down and buy the pipe. It is a one time deal. Everyone will spend $200 on a set of wrenches that is only worth $50 but they are too cheap to run air lines. I never have gotten it. I am supper cheap but safty must come first. It might be your eye or even worse a family memeber that gets hurt.