I give up......heat recommenations please

[glsmaverick]

So I have read NUMEROUS pages on here about what heater to use and have exhausted many reviews and websites collecting information and I just have no idea what to use still.

My garage: built in 2003, attached to house, fully insulated with three windows that are also well insulated. Floor is 20x18 w/14ft ceilings (5040cuft or 360sqft floor). The door is not insulated and is a 16' single.

What I am looking for is something that can hold it around 60 degrees in cold Michigan winters so I can keep my detailing business rolling along. I would like to only do electric and 110v if possible. I am trying to do this with little to no modification in wiring or plumbing. I have considered vent free propane but want to avoid the condensation issues that come about and also not have to crack the doors.

Please help out. I have at least one detail job a week and its starting to get cold up here.



Here are a couple garage shots.

 

[padronanniversary]

Why not do the floor board electric heat ?

 

[KenB]

If you want to do a heat loss calculation, here's a quick one.
http://www.h-mac.com/heat-load-calculator/heat-load-calculator.php

Electric heat at 110v should be slightly less expensive than burning paper currency in a pot-belly stove.


Ken

 

[Stuart in MN]

First thing to do is insulate the garage door, it's a big open hole in what sounds like otherwise a well insulated box. 120vac electric space heaters are probably not going to have enough BTUs, unless you plug in a bunch of them (the maximum for a single 120vac plug in electric heater is 1500 watts, or around 5000 BTU.) If you have natural gas available, I'd think the best solution would be a vented gas unit heater, like a Modine Hot Dawg or similar although it will cost more to purchase and install.

 

[MikeLawrence]

If you really want to go electric in Michigan in a garage... I'd go with a Fujitsu System 12RLS (Ductless Mini-split)

Since this is going "in your home" I think you will qualify for the $1500 tax credit making the project basically "fo' free".

Long story short it's a heat pump that can operate efficiently at way below freezing temperatures (5f) which lets it achieve 25 sEER. This basically means that it will heat the space for approximately 1/5th the price of electric resistance.

That's a "permanent" fix though. Those things are fully warrantied for 7 years and they tend to last a lot longer than that. It would require having a dude come out and wire it up for you, run the copper, pull vacuum, pressure test, etc.

If you're going to be heating the space up frequently in the winter though (and you guys get some long winters) I'd have to think that in the mid-long term the Fujitsu is going to be WAY cheaper than any other electric option I know of.

That said, "I'm an electric guy" and still not sold on electric being a good fit for your situation.

Just an opinion,
Michael Lawrence, LISSCO
www.thruwalls.com

 

[noslo04]

Insulate ceiling and garage door, install a 240V Dayton G73, and it should stay as warm as you would like it to be.

 

[garageking]

i also would recomend the g73 heater,lot less hassle and be plenty of heat

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I think the 110V electric is not the correct choice EXCEPT for very occaisional heat.

My Dad wanted something like that for his 2 car garage in Indy. I bought him 2 electric heaters for Christmas, both rated at 1500 W IIRC. If you ran them for several hours, they would pull the garage up about 40 degrees more then the outside temperature (i.e. if it was 10 outside...you could get the garage to 50).

I had to plug them into seperate circuits, because they each pull about 13 amps. Plug them into the same circuit and they'd blow the 20 amp breaker.

3000 watts of heat isn't a lot, but it will cost you. That's about 30 cents per hour on power...and they never click off so you're talking $216 per month in power bills if you're paying about 10 cents/KWH. Baseboard electric would be the same. In fact any electric heater would be the same (even the 220 ones).

If it must be electric heat...you need a heat pump. Good news is, you can use it for a/c in the summer too. If you only need to heat it a few hours a month...I'd probably feel differently.

Phil

 

[PaulR]

Agree with Phil.

I see:
Nice house, nice garage, business, tax deduction,........bite the bullet, get a 100lb LP tank behind the garage and pipe in a Reznor FE100. I'm partial to that because thats what throws gobs of heat in my 30x50. That unit is actually probably too big for your garage, you could go smaller.

 

[APEowner]

If you're really working in there you're going to want something oversize. The heat calculators don't typically take into account the heat loss from opening the door. You're essentially removing a wall long enough to move a car in or out. In addition, if you're bringing a car in that's been sitting outside that's a lot of cold metal stuck in the middle of the heated space to bring up to temp. I'd go with something like the Reznor.

 

[70 chevelle]

Paul R.
How often do you have to full your 100 lb tank

 

[MikeLawrence]

If it must be electric heat...you need a heat pump. Good news is, you can use it for a/c in the summer too. If you only need to heat it a few hours a month...I'd probably feel differently.

Phil

I totally agree on this but wanted to point out that because you're in Michigan you'll need to be a little careful and make sure the heat pump you choose (if you go that route) can operate at low temperatures or it's going to switch over to resistance basically all winter and you might as well be using a g73.

That was the reason I specifically mentioned Fujitsu in my earlier post; working at 5f is something of an oddity.

 

[overdriv]

OK, so you figure your heat loss. So is that what you want to size your heater for?

 

[PaulR]

Paul R.
How often do you have to full your 100 lb tank

No idea yet really, bought the place this July.
I live in New England, Western Mass, temps are getting into the 20's now at night when I'm out there. I've been in the garage every night for at least 3 hours for the past 2 months, keep it at 60-65 degrees, the tank has gone from 100% to 75%.

With weekend and maybe 3 nights a week heat I'm thinking it may last almost through winter. 1500 square feet garage but it's pretty air tight.

I know radiant is the ultimate but I have to say I'm tickled happy with this Reznor overhead LP unit. ZERO gas smell and when the fan kicks in at temp my garage warms up in about 10 minutes. There is just no comparison at all to any temporary heat or 20lb bottle setups. Of course I'm sure my system was set up by a pro, hard piping and hard wired to a nice wall thermostat and all. I highly recommed spending the duckets and doing it right, you'll be beyond happy with the results.

 

[MikeLawrence]

OK, so you figure your heat loss. So is that what you want to size your heater for?

I'm an "hvac dude" not a "garage guy" so this was throwing me WAY off at first. In general yes that's how you size, but garages are "special".

You basically have the ability to "remove a wall" and get double digit temperature swings by opening the bay; so if you "properly size the unit" AND you're opening the door frequently you aren't properly sizing the unit at all; it needed to be 2-3x bigger than that.

This same effect likely also has an impact on what options are a good fit for a garage--a standard heat pump if sized for a garage is going to cycle way more than optimal and drastically reduce it's lifespan. Because of this invisible cost by comparison DC ("inverted") heat pumps (this includes most good mini-splits) and gas systems become relatively better deals--it even mitigates some of the huge inefficiencies of resistance.

Just an opinion,
Michael Lawrence, LISSCO
www.thruwalls.com

 

[overdriv]

I have more questions but I'll start a new thread. Thanks.