I give up.... time to replace my garage slab

[cbracer]

60 lb electric jack hammer $80
1 hour and a hurt back
3 1/2 hours for a crew of two helpers and it was all broken out. The garage floor varied from 2 1/2 " on one side up to 4" on the other. But most was about 3". Pretty weak stuff. Found people on craigslist that want the broken concrete, but now what to do with the dirt and crushed stuff. I need to take a few inches out..... Our dump wants $500 for a local on site low pro bin, ouch.

 

[theoldwizard1]

In some areas gravel is "river" gravel; rounded; no sharp edges. It does not compact well.

Around here, aggregate is usually 3/4" crushed limestone.

 

[allinon72]

Did you saw cut around the edges of the wall?

 

[the fish]

Gravel vs aggragate???

Can someone help me understand the difference? Around here gravel is aggragate.

Around here (Northern CA), gravel is round stone, i.e. river run, where as aggregate implies angular rock.

I am a project manager for a construction company and if this was my garage to replace, this is what I would do:

1) Sub-slab I would use a 4" recycled class 2 aggregate base. This is a 3/4" aggregate product made of reclaimed asphalt and concrete. Compact this with a vibraplate and it gets HARD. It is also cheap to buy.
2a) Go with the 4000psi concrete (6 sack mix) instead of 3000psi (5 sack). If your slab will be 4" thick, you are only talking about 5CY of concrete and the cost for an extra sack of cement should be no more than $10/CY. This is a no brainer.
2b) Going to a 6" slab will require another 3CY, and there will be more excavation required. While this will add substantial strength and longevity to your slab, this will up your cost by a fair amount.
3) Don't sweat the fly ash. It has been used in concrete for a long time as a portion of the cementitious material. It is a way to recycle a byproduct. All of the concrete you see contains fly ash. Proper vibration of the concrete, sufficient reinforcement, and good finishing skills are far more important than the cementitious material makeup.

-Nick

 

[impala_631]

I guess the "slang" varies from area to area, around here crushed limestone is loosely referred to as gravel, the round rocks are called " pea gravel" or "river rock" depending in the size, any how stay away from the round stuff as it will not pack tight , you will want to dig down a few inches, add a few inches of aggregate, grade it, compact it, add a vapor barrior, lay down metal it desired, then pour,

 

[ConCretin]

cbracer, you are the man! A lot of guys talk about it but you actually did it. Awesome.

Now let's make sure your new slab meets all your expectations;

My suggestions would be as follows;

• Make sure you have an adequate sub-base under your slab. At least 6" of granular material is best. Dig a test hole to see what you've got.
  
• Install a good vapor barrier (at least 10 mil poly) with taped seams.
  
• For reinforcing, go with a minimum of wire mesh in sheet form supported every 4' to keep it off the sub grade. Rebar costs a bit more but is more likely to stay put.
  
• Order a 4,000 psi concrete with a mid range water reducer, which should give you a very workable 5+" slump with minimal water.
  
• Make sure your finisher knows you'll be keeping an eye on the slump and you don't want water to be used as a finishing aid.
  
• Write a flatness spec into your contract with the finisher. No more than 1/4" gap at any point under a 10' straightedge.
  
• Saw cut control joints immediately after finishing using an early entry saw.
  
• Cure the concrete for at least seven days by maintaining the concrete in a continuously moist condition. Wet it down and then cover with poly.

If you hit each of these points, you'll have a slab that will last a lifetime.

 

[cbracer]

Thanks guys for all of your suggestions! very appreciated. Unfortunately I can't do everything that's been recommended but I'll try to do as much as possible.

• When I said gravel I meant the triangular type, not the round stuff. I'll find out what he meant by recycled aggregate. I want something that packs down hard.
• The depth will only be 2", though that sounds like a lot less than what many would do. It's all I can afford to do at this point. Cost is $500 alone in dump fees just to dump the 3-4" of dirt I took out today. I mainly need something clean to separate the concrete from dirt and believe concrete shouldn't lie directly on dirt anyways. 3/4" aggregate would be too big if only doing 2"? Do they make 1/2"?
• The vapor barrier is only recommended if you are putting a top flooring on it. It prevents moisture from coming up through and ruining the glues/bond. If the concrete is bare then it's best not to have one as surface cracks develop. Did plenty of research on that. They aren't required nor recommended in southern california code anyways, in the walls, attic or under concrete. I'm NOT saying it's better to not using them! It hardly ever dips into the 40's in winter at night and hardly ever hits 90 in the summer.
• They are going to saw cut the joints the following day. It surprises me they will pour the whole thing then cut. I thought they would make forms and pour in four separate squares, but maybe that's old school?
• I was going just 3000 but will look into the cost of 4000 psi. I doubt I'll ever need the compressive strength, it's more the tension that creates cracks. My driveway I found out is only 3" thick!
• What is slump?
• I will go the wire mesh and keep it supported, rebar would require another inch and the cost eventually gets over my budget. Of course this is already about $1000 more than my budget.
• So I spray water over it every day or twice a day? Then cover with plastic? I'm guessing this keeps the top curing more evenly with the center?
• I plan to use Bio Vee Seal for sure right away, then think about what I want to do with it after it's all in.

 

[James-W]

I am not a concrete expert so I could be wrong on this, but I really don't think 2 inches is enough for a garage floor. I would think a minimum of 4 inches would be correct. Again, I am not a concrete guru but I am pretty sure 2 inches will give you a lot of grief.

 

[Chucktown]

I am not a concrete expert so I could be wrong on this, but I really don't think 2 inches is enough for a garage floor. I would think a minimum of 4 inches would be correct. Again, I am not a concrete guru but I am pretty sure 2 inches will give you a lot of grief.

I think he is talking about the subbase. You are right though, 2" of concrete would be a disaster.

 

[James-W]

I think he is talking about the subbase. You are right though, 2" of concrete would be a disaster.

Oh! Sorry. I thought he was talking about the concrete and my first thought was this is going to turn out really bad.

 

[Chucktown]

Cbracer, slump is a measure of the workability of concrete. The wetter the concrete, the more workable. If you hire it out and don't specify, the crew will likely order the slump as high as possible because it makes their job easier. The problem is that the more water in the concrete mix, the more likely you are to have shrinkage cracks as the concrete cures.

I'm not an expert either, but I recently had a slab poured using knowledge that I gained here, and it worked out perfectly. If I were you, I would cover the slab in plastic once it's been floated. Uncover within 12 hours to have it cut, hose it down (I ran a hose under my plastic a few times a day for 20 mins) re-cover and keep it covered for a week.

 

[the fish]

I tried to hit all of your bullet points. Leg me know if you have any other questions.

1)The recycled material they are using is most likely recycled class 2 base. This is a Caltrans approved material. You can install the 3/4" material at any thickness over 3/4". The material is graded. 3/4" is the largest aggregate size and it goes all the way down to fines. The fines are why the material compacts so well.
2)The agg base layer will act as a moisture break, you shouldn't need a moisture barrier. If you can find a way to go with 4" of base, do it.
3) Did you request sawn joints? They will certainly pour the entire slab in one day, but I wonder why they aren't just using tooled joints and maybe an expansion joint running down the center of the floor in each direction. Granted, sawn joints do look nice.
4)Go with 4000psi. Again, this is a no brainer because the cost is so minimal. You are right that concrete cracks under tension--that is what the reinforcement is for. Rebar won't require a thicker slab, but is quite an additional cost over mesh.
5)The slump is tested by placing a sample of concrete in a cone, consolidating it, and then dumping it on the ground (think sand castle). When you take the come off of the concrete, it will slump down. The difference in height from the cone and the concrete is the slump. Look at the ready mix tag when the driver shows up--it will state the proper slump for the mix being used. It should be 4" slump.
6)For water curing, wet the slab and cover with tarps, visqueen, or burlap. Do this for a week. Check to make sure the concrete stays damp. The other option is spraying a curing compound on the slab.

 

[ConCretin]

cbracer, a couple additional comments after reading your questions and some replies.

My concern with using just 2" of base material would be that something caused your old slab to fail. If it was an inadequate or expansive material in the subgrade, you risk having it happen again. I'd just make sure you have good existing material.

Personally, I wouldn't place a slab without a vapor barrier. You are correct that it's primary purpose is flooring related but it also keeps the sub grade from sucking all the water out of the concrete and helps control moisture in the building. Plus you may want a nice epoxy floor someday. A vapor barrier doesn't cause cracks.

Keep in mind that your wire mesh won't do much to stop shrinkage cracks from occurring. It's there to keep them from opening up. The mesh only works if it's roughly in the middle of the concrete so your supports are important. Don't trust the finisher to pull up the mesh as he pours.

The sawcut joints will create a weak spot for the slab to crack and hide the crack from view. If they don't cut the slab until the next day, you may get a random crack or two in the meantime.

The best way to avoid shrinkage cracks is to limit mix water. The best way to do this is with a mid range water reducer. It will give your finisher a workable mix while keeping mix water to a minimum. Your finisher won't be happy i.e. do a good job, with a 4" slump.

The 4,000 psi concrete is overkill as far as required compressive strength goes but the added cement will give you a more durable surface.

Wetting down a slab a couple times a day is not the best way to cure concrete. Your goal is to keep the mix water that's in the concrete from evaporating before the concrete reaches strength. wetting down and covering the slab for at least 7 days works best

Not trying to be negative but after all that work, I want you to be happy with your new slab. It's not easy to get a good slab. It takes planning and determination.

 

[CNGsaves]

Yeah I'm torn on the vapor barrier. It creates surface cracks when the concrete drys, but prevents moisture coming up through afterwards which is only needed if you have coverings that later peel off. The dirt has all the alkalides so I'm leaning towards gravel / sand underneath and forgoing the vapor barrier since they use them in southern California.

I'm going to add wire to hold the concrete together if cracks form. Rebar is overkill for my simple garage. 3000psi concrete.

Looking back at this earlier post, seems like you contradict yourself on the vapor barrier. I think you meant that S California does NOT traditionally put in vapor barriers (ie due to mild climate).

However, at same time you've learned in your area that alkalide soil is cause of some concrete slabs deteriorating over time. Plus, now you've discovered the costs of subbase and are skimping there a bit. Thus, why chance it and not put in vapor barrier?? I'd say take advice of harsher climate guys and go ahead with vapor barrier. It's cheap insurance the way I see it.

 

[Higgins]

I know this will probably create a "Fire Storm" here! But Why do you have to install stress cracks in cement these days????

The ranch house I grew up in was built in the 50's didn't have any stress cracks, nor did the slab have any cracks. Nor did the garages poured at that time!

Now fast forward 60 yrs. we have several 2 & 3 car garages locally that were poured in the past 10 yrs, no stress cracks cut in, and they haven't cracked at all?

Something has to be different? So what gives??

AL

 

[cbracer]

Okay, so slump is moisture content. Understand now, and its nice to know how it's measured which explains the terminology.

When I broke out the old concrete it was quite evident why it cracked. Not only was it weak, it was 2 1/2" thick in some areas! Averaged 3" thick and was 4" only on one side. Poured straight on the dirt floor. I do know from digging out some dirt that my compaction of the dirt is for sure compact!

I didn't request saw joints but asked about expansion joints, then they said yes they will saw in however many I want. My garage is 20x20 with a 16 foot door off to one side. So do I have one saw cut in each directly evenly, which then won't be down the middle of the door, or do I have them cut in the middle of the door so one side is 8' and the other is 12'? I wonder if they will cut all the way through the concrete or only part way?

It's been my experience that quite a bit of water comes to the top of the concrete naturally when drying. Do you put plastic over this pool of water or wait till the pool drys down, then wet again and put plastic over it? I'm mainly wondering how often you have to water it with the plastic on top?

I also wonder if the plastic over the concrete is more needed when a moisture barrier underneath is used and less so without a moisture barrier underneath? Also depends on the weather outside. When trying to repair my slab I pressure washed it and flooded the old slab. That caused water to fall under the slab through the cracks and the ground is still moist, even below what I took out. Right now we are in quite a cold spring. Nothing is evaporating, especially with the garage door shut. I watered my plants two days ago and the ground surface hasn't dried yet.

 

[cbracer]

Looking back at this earlier post, seems like you contradict yourself on the vapor barrier. I think you meant that S California does NOT traditionally put in vapor barriers (ie due to mild climate).

However, at same time you've learned in your area that alkalide soil is cause of some concrete slabs deteriorating over time. Plus, now you've discovered the costs of subbase and are skimping there a bit. Thus, why chance it and not put in vapor barrier?? I'd say take advice of harsher climate guys and go ahead with vapor barrier. It's cheap insurance the way I see it.

Doh! Yes I meant to say they don't use them in southern California on that earlier post. The alkalide is the reason I'm doing the aggregate/gravel base though the newer concrete mix shouldn't have problems like the old stuff. I don't want it touching the soil if I can avoid it. Most garages are poured on just dirt here in southern California. Or they used to be when all the houses were built years ago. My house is 1962 and yes the concrete has gotten much better over the years

 

[cbracer]

I know this will probably create a "Fire Storm" here! But Why do you have to install stress cracks in cement these days????

The ranch house I grew up in was built in the 50's didn't have any stress cracks, nor did the slab have any cracks. Nor did the garages poured at that time!

Now fast forward 60 yrs. we have several 2 & 3 car garages locally that were poured in the past 10 yrs, no stress cracks cut in, and they haven't cracked at all?

Something has to be different? So what gives??

AL

Stress cracks or curing cracks? Many times the cracks are small and originally start during the curing process. Some appear right away some are months later. Then there can be cracks formed from expansion stress where concrete doesn't have room to expand with temperature changes. Stress cracks to me are from stress... weight on the concrete and a base that isn't strong enough to support that weight.

If you're garage has zero cracks and was poured in the 50s great. Mine was poured in the 60s with concrete the reacted to alkaids, poured on top of dirt, and was 3" thick. Hence it cracked.

 

[jhelrey]

You would be amazed at how many people will pick up fill for free... Esp if you have a skid or something to load it.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Add the vapor barrier. It will save the next guy a headache when he puts epoxy in.
Bio Vee Seal is a densifier, nothing more.

 

[MrMark]

Why do you say vapor barriers are not used under slabs in So Cal? True, we don't use vapor barriers in walls, and attics, because of our mild climate, and the lack of predominance of heating or cooling, but that is wholly different from the under slab issue. CA Building code, there is no SoCal building code just state code btw, isn't going to specify a vapor barrier for walls and attics, but I wonder what it states about the slab?

I have seen Tract houses from the 70's that have a vapor barrier. Every house I have seen built around me, Newport Beach, right next door to you, has a vapor barrier. Where are you getting your info on lack of a vapor barrier being the norm? I actually thought it was code, but you say no. I don't know one way or another about that but I surely would put one in. Just curious as to your sources on this?

I wouldn't saw cut it either. I see that as a cop out by the builder to cover his *** for poor concrete work. A cheap insurance policy so to speak. Looks like hell, collects dirt, and is unnecessary if the job is done right. I asked a real old time concrete man about this saw cutting, because none of the older garages had the cuts, his included, and he said that for a normal small two car garage you really don't need to do it. These older higher end garages don't have "shrinkage cracks".

He explained it is a tradeoff between the ugly *** saw cuts vs. the small risk that you may get shrinkage cracks, mainly from a piss poor finisher. These old slabs may have cracks from movement and earthquakes and settling, but that is pretty unavoidable. Your saw cutting isn't going to stop that I don't think. This guy had his own company and did commercial stuff, not piddling residential so I think he knows what he is talking about.

 

[MrMark]

A mud job is interesting. It is where a skilled mud man lays down building felt, and wire mesh (lath) right over the existing concrete floor. He may or may not nail it down with a powder actuated nailer. He then uses a very dry mortar mix called "deck mud" or dry pack, I believe, and screeds that with long flat tools completely flat. He would then thin set and tile over that. Same idea as making a shower, only on the floor. This is the high end, and some would argue the only way, to do tile. But there's a catch: you need a skilled mud man, likely an old timer and there aren't many around any more. My bathroom shower and kitchen floor (raised foundation with plywood floor) are mud jobs.

This MUD JOB was suggested to you because your floor was horrible and a mud job may have been able to save it. Maybe, but I think you did the right thing.

The reason for this mud job is that concrete garage floors tend to be very poor in flatness and level. Concrete is a very hard thing to work with and if you have looked at appreciable concrete finishing you will see that it is mostly pretty bad unless specialized finishing machines are used. A man with a Bull Float isn't going to get you a very good surface, at least I haven't seen one yet with the labor we use around here. Put your car headlights just right on a broomed garage floor sometime and it will look like the ocean. There is a reason that concrete gets broomed, kind of like Spanish Lace stucco, and spray mud on walls, a quick and dirty cover over a not so perfect substrate.

The mud job allows correction of this poor surface for tile. Because the mud is so stiff the man is able to get it really flat and correct a multitude of sins so to speak. Your alternative with a crummy (normal) garage floor is to back butter and self level as you tile, a painstaking and commercially cost prohibitive process. The mud man can do it faster and better than the man trying to work tile on shiite.

 

[MrMark]

This link says CA does do vapor barrier but does it *** backwards?

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-003-concrete-floor-problems


Pages 10 and 11, the surveys on this are pretty interesting on the issue of the vapor barrier above or below the sand.

http://www.calgeo.org/downloads/slab-on-grade.pdf

I would put it directly under the concrete with no sand on top. Point is though, that you need a vapor barrier in So Cal, so whoever told you otherwise is jacking you. The only issue is whether to put sand on top of it.

 

[ConCretin]

I didn't request saw joints but asked about expansion joints, then they said yes they will saw in however many I want. My garage is 20x20 with a 16 foot door off to one side. So do I have one saw cut in each directly evenly, which then won't be down the middle of the door, or do I have them cut in the middle of the door so one side is 8' and the other is 12'? I wonder if they will cut all the way through the concrete or only part way?

It's been my experience that quite a bit of water comes to the top of the concrete naturally when drying. Do you put plastic over this pool of water or wait till the pool drys down, then wet again and put plastic over it? I'm mainly wondering how often you have to water it with the plastic on top?

I also wonder if the plastic over the concrete is more needed when a moisture barrier underneath is used and less so without a moisture barrier underneath? Also depends on the weather outside.

Regarding control joints; For a 20x20, the most I'd do is one each way. For a slab that's small, there's a pretty good chance you wouldn't get a random crack anyway if you keep the water content down. Think of the saw cutting as cheap insurance against an ugly random crack. They should cut 1/4 of the slab depth. Almost any layout will work - just keep the panels created by the cuts as square as possible.

Regarding water on the surface otherwise known as bleed water; If you've got any significant bleed water, you added too much water to your concrete. Bleed water should be allowed to dissipate before you trowel so it isn't related to curing at all. You should be able to wet the slab once and the poly will keep the slab moist.

Last question; The vapor barrier under the slab does aid curing by keeping the ground from sucking water out of the concrete but it doesn't have anything to do with your curing method up top. You can cure a slab many ways including a sprayed on chemical curing compound, ponding or moisture retaining cover such as poly. Curing is much more important in hot or windy conditions.

Hope that helps.

 

[ConCretin]

I would put it directly under the concrete with no sand on top. Point is though, that you need a vapor barrier in So Cal, so whoever told you otherwise is jacking you. The only issue is whether to put sand on top of it.

I agree. Sand blotter courses have fallen out of favor for a number or reasons. Haven't seen one in years.

 

[Steves32]

When I did my garage, the plans that went through plan check called out for visqueen w/ 2" of sand on top. I left the sand off & got a correction from inspector. I had 2 choices. Put sand on top of visqueen or remove visqueen. So- I put an inch of sand back- just barely enough to cover the plastic. Here- they also made a note on permit that because I did use the visqueen, it could never be converted to a living space- garage only.

 

[ConCretin]

When I did my garage, the plans that went through plan check called out for visqueen w/ 2" of sand on top. I left the sand off & got a correction from inspector. I had 2 choices. Put sand on top of visqueen or remove visqueen. So- I put an inch of sand back- just barely enough to cover the plastic. Here- they also made a note on permit that because I did use the visqueen, it could never be converted to a living space- garage only.

Remind me never to move to California. I'll take sub zero temps for 6 months a year over that stupidity.

 

[cbracer]

Alright, pulled a permit today. Lovely city hall took an hour and many go arounds. Seems nobody really knows if a permit is needed. First off waited 20 minutes to speak with a planner. He said no because it was a self standing concrete pad that wasn't attached to a foundation, but I could check with the building permit people. So I waited another 20 minutes to speak with the building department and they didn't know so they went to the engineer. The engineer said of course because it's interior and therefore structural. So then another 15 minute wait to go back to the planner for the plans to get approved. Then another 10 minute wait to go back to the builder permit people once the plan was approved to actually get the permit. $165 and 1.5 hrs later....

City requirements: 2" base, 3.5" thick, 2500psi, mesh or rebar, 1/8" grade per foot
of course we'll see if the inspector agrees with the engineer.....

I really want it level though. Any reason to have a slope if my hot water heater isn't in the garage? Would you want a level floor?

Funny thing some guy came up wanting to put a portable spa on some property and they said he had to fill out a pool permit. Been down that rope already, all he needs is an electrical permit because a sit on top moveable spa doesn't need a permit. They surely don't cater to homeowners......

 

[MrMark]

My floor is level. I consider it mandatory for a garage where work is done. Has nothing to do with a hot water heater. The TandP line has to be plumbed outdoors code and you can optionally use a pan under the heater with a drain to the outside.

I doubt that City requirement is enforceable. Ask to see the CA building code that requires slope on a garage floor. Some jurisdictions like Newport Beach have things they call Building department policies. I question whether they would be enforceable. In CA, Cities are not allowed to just make up their own building codes. They have to follow the CA building code and any local amendments (departures from code) have to be based on local topographical. geographic, geological, etc. conditions. In other words, they have to justify the departure based on unique local conditions like corrosive soil, for example. There are of course some things that the CA building code leaves up to the Cities on things like choice of materials for certain things. I would make inquires on that slope requirement to see if it can be overcome.

I think you screwed up going in there on that permit. You were just replacing an existing slab and now you allowed them to get in your business. They would never have been the wiser and you are now poorer and have to deal with requirements that you may not want.

 

[MrMark]

Here's an example of what I am talking about for the City of Cypress

http://qcode.us/codes/cypress/view.php?topic=5-i-5_2&frames=on

See how any departure from CA code requires express findings based on local conditions.

Check CA building code to see if there is any requirement of slope on garage floors. I doubt it. I would be very surprised if there would be any way for Huntington Beach (which is famous by the way for making up local rules beyond the CA building code) to justify slope on a garage floor because of unique conditions in Huntington Beach!

Don't let them bully you into something you don't want to do.

 

[cbracer]

Yeah I really questioned going in there to get a damn permit. Shouldn't have, always screw the guy who is being honest. I understand what you say about local conditions, they wanted a stainless steel rod instead of copper for the ground rod in the soil. Only city around that does and it cost $90 instead of $12. Though the guy who inspected my electrical panel replacement and SPA was super easy to deal with once he saw how good my work was. So I'm hoping this guy is easy to deal with to. Find out tomorrow morning....

 

[MrMark]

Yeah, see how they get you. Permits tend to open up a can of worms. Unless you are adding square footage or something major or where you are going to get caught your best best is to avoid the problems.

We get to use the copper coated rods here, right next door. And only ONE does the trick. I don't really care much about ground rods - I don't see much lightning - but it always amused me that only one is required. I've never managed to get a straight answer as to why.

 

[cbracer]

So the inspector came out and asked "where's the plans?". I said what plans, you need a square drawn on a piece of paper? no not really but wanted to. I said it's all in the description Mr. Lee the engineer downtown said to just write it all in. Then he said, "hmm no dowels?" Guess he's used to people drilling and doweling into the foundation. I told him this was a standing slab and the foundation is separate. The slab I took out wasn't attached in any way and Mr. Lee didn't say I needed them. He then said "well I guess it's slab day so I'll sign off". Didn't even look to see about proper mesh overlap or anything else. Pretty much similar to my electrical inspection.

As for electrical rods, you technically need two on any new construction. One close to the main water line going into the house and one near the panel. If you change the water line you need to add one there, and if you change the panel you need to add one there. Always bringing the area of project up to code. Personally I can't imagine Stainless steel conducting anywhere near what copper does, but copper can corrode away near the beach. Funny because Edison uses aluminum everywhere except for everything 1/2 mile from the beach must be all copper because aluminum corrodes quicker than copper. Guess the salty air is okay for copper but not the soil. My cousin's house got hit by lightening years ago. Blew out every socket, literally blew the sockets out of the walls.

 

[Todd.Brock]

So was this just the inspection, or did you get a floor today too?

 

[Justanoldguy]

And if you are in any volcanic/sulphur type areas like I am then it will eat stainless like you down a beer.

 

[MrMark]

So the inspector came out and asked "where's the plans?". I said what plans, you need a square drawn on a piece of paper? no not really but wanted to. I said it's all in the description Mr. Lee the engineer downtown said to just write it all in. Then he said, "hmm no dowels?" Guess he's used to people drilling and doweling into the foundation. I told him this was a standing slab and the foundation is separate. The slab I took out wasn't attached in any way and Mr. Lee didn't say I needed them. He then said "well I guess it's slab day so I'll sign off". Didn't even look to see about proper mesh overlap or anything else. Pretty much similar to my electrical inspection.

As for electrical rods, you technically need two on any new construction. One close to the main water line going into the house and one near the panel. If you change the water line you need to add one there, and if you change the panel you need to add one there. Always bringing the area of project up to code. Personally I can't imagine Stainless steel conducting anywhere near what copper does, but copper can corrode away near the beach. Funny because Edison uses aluminum everywhere except for everything 1/2 mile from the beach must be all copper because aluminum corrodes quicker than copper. Guess the salty air is okay for copper but not the soil. My cousin's house got hit by lightening years ago. Blew out every socket, literally blew the sockets out of the walls.

Typical inspection. Aren't you glad you paid the money. What about the slope?

I live literally on the sand and we use ONE copper ground rod. BTW, they are not really copper rods, they are copper coated steel. If they were copper they would cost a lot more than the typical 10 dollars. Steel conducts plenty for their purpose of a lightning hit. Here, Edison runs Aluminum underground, although the overheads when we had them were copper, probably from the 20's.

 

[cbracer]

I was wondering if the rod was full copper, couldn't see how I could pound that 8 feet into the ground but since you said copper coated steel it makes sense.

Nothing was said by the inspector about a "slope" so I poured it level. I looked at building code and didn't see anything about a slope. The inspector comes out one more time after the pour but he said to just crack the garage door open a few inches, stick the papers under a rock and they will come by to do the final sign off.

 

[cbracer]

I put the base in yesterday, had the contractor come out and compact it down.

Did the pour today. Dump truck backed to the sidewalk and wheel barrows with 4 guys. Truck was here about half an hour. The sump was really good, did my own make shift test and out of 6" of height it went down to 5.5" and didn't move past that. I thought it looked thin but must not have been. I used those concrete dobies in a few places to support the wire mesh, but I think those are horrible for creating stress concentrations so I tried not to use too many. The pour was pretty much 5" in most places and 4" near the window.

 

[CNGsaves]

Looking good. Congrats on getting through bureaucracy of "city hall" with your prolonged permit issue.

Curious whether you had to install grounding rod or other inspector found "nitpicks" while he was out there looking at garage??

 

[cbracer]

The inspector made a comment about my door to the house in the garage, making sure it opened into the house.... seems he was looking around for other things as well!