I gotta Vent!!!!

[officer]

down in Florida you have zero rights as a homeowner. Contractors fleece homeowners out of countless millions of dollars. You sign a contract with the Contractor and he hires a bunch of subs to do the work and places PO's with various building material supply houses for the raw material. He collects your money, doesn't pay the subs or supply houses and they in turn come after you putting liens on your property.

Or the Contractors simply collect a certain percentage up front and leave the homeowner hanging. All they do is declare bankruptcy or shut the doors and the

This is just not true....I am a licensed Florida GC. Material men and subcontractors are required to file a 'notice to owner" . I think sometimes homeowners get this and assume the worst . Also there is an insurance fund that pays homeowners in the event of a contractor going under.

 

[Red05GT]

As a general contractor for over 30 years, you see it all. And yes when the red flags go up,
you learn to pass on the difficult customers 9 times out of 10. Sometimes a customers
comment such as," keep it as low or cheap as possible, I'm poor," is a sure fired way to
never hear back. I think a lot of customers confuse how much money they have allocated
for a given project with how much it can truly be built for. I read on here how guys want
everyone to agree with them that a given quote is too much. There is a huge difference
on a job quote in the perfect world with perfect access, and a job site where your material
is stacked in the street and you have to pack it in one piece at a time through a gate and
in to a fenced back yard with zero access for conventional equipment. Yes there are a lot
of bad contractors, and I refer my particularly obnoxious price shoppers to the contractor
in our area that I know has the ability to be the cheapest and best at cutting corners.

 

[Scott r c]

I'm a contractor, and I have went and looked at plenty of jobs and then just ignored the people after the first meeting. You can tell all they care about is getting the most out of you at the cheapest price. They fail to realize this is a two-way street. The project needs to be a good deal for both sides.

 

[SALIV8]

I'm a contractor, and I have went and looked at plenty of jobs and then just ignored the people after the first meeting. You can tell all they care about is getting the most out of you at the cheapest price. They fail to realize this is a two-way street. The project needs to be a good deal for both sides.

Ignoring potential customers is not a good practice. Just tell them you're not interested. Gc's like you are not professional.

 

[wssix99]

ask around at local lumber yards whos reliable and good.

I didn't think those existed anymore. Don't we have to go to "home stores" no and get the Walmart treatment?

Ignoring potential customers is not a good practice.

But ignoring potential customers who may screw you over on prompt fair payment is a great idea - particularly in a market like this one where there is more demand than supply.

I agree with getting drawings done.

At this point, one is no longer dealing with a full service contractor.

 

[SALIV8]

But ignoring potential customers who may screw you over on prompt fair payment is a great idea - particularly in a market like this one where there is more demand than supply.

Ignoring customers is never good practice. Regardless of what the reason is. Tell them no thanks, give a referall, but don't act like a child. Gc's are a dime a dozen...

Professional gc's can be hard to come by.

 

[MN4x4]

Back to the OP's issue of why he got ignored…

Simple - you were too much work. Too high maintenance.

Now, before you get mad let me explain. Unless you come to the GC with a buildable plan - i.e., finished drawings an plot map - there are too many variables to quantify. To name a few:

What kind of foundation do you want? This could include the thickness and finish of the concrete. And that's ASSUMING you want concrete…

Do you want 2x4 or 2x6 walls? Or something else?

What kind of roof do you want? Which way does the ridge go? What pitch? What kind of shingles? (p.s. - it's MORE hassle if you tell me to "match the house" if you don't know what mfr. and style those shingles are.)

What doors and windows are wanted? Is he providing the OH door?

I could go on for pages, but these are the kind of things that make it impossible to give you a bid, and make this situation a contractor's nightmare. I, too, would walk away…but at least I'd tell you why. Or if I needed work I might offer to help you come up with a plan - for a price.

So - you wanted to vent? Now you see the other side. Hopefully it helps you understand how to approach the NEXT contractor in a manner that allows him to HELP you...

 

[wssix99]

Ignoring customers is never good practice. Regardless of what the reason is.

I agree with this statement but in building, there are very few customers. There are clients. Customers come back and buy more. Clients, not so much. So, I can revise my statement to say (from the contractor perspective) not responding to requests from potential clients is not necessarily bad idea. Responding in a negative way is not so good in any professional situation.

Unless you come to the GC with a buildable plan - i.e., finished drawings an plot map - there are too many variables to quantify.

Maybe we should ask what the OP expects the GC to do here. Are we looking for the GC to handle the architect/engineer interactions and develop the plans? If not, an Architect is definitely the place to start - but it is still not a bad idea to align a budget to the square footages now.

 

[SALIV8]

i think some of you guys are missing the big picture.

The OP wants to spend his money. Period.

(for mn4x4)- GC's will have project scopes already in their files from previous work... Or a simple 30 minutes can produce a broad custom scope. I would never pay a GC to give me "help" writing down a scope of work. lmao. some of you guys must think GC's are rocket scientists. Its an addition and a garage... gimme a break.


The market is so flooded with gc's its not even funny. every tom, **** and harry think they are a "gc."

I went thru the same **** as the OP, but in Michigan. Now, my project starts in 2 weeks with a gc i found to be VERY helpful and responsive. He worked with me to give several quotes until I was within my budget. Im sure he would have been very disappointed with all the time he spent with me if I never pulled the trigger. It was alot of time spent for him. And he never pressured me or was rude to me. As a gc- you win some, you lose some- thats the fact of the business.

The other 5-10 gcs I spoke with probably dont even know how to set up a building schedule with the different trades. They were flakes and many wouldnt call me back AFTER going over my scope, that i put together. Maybe they thought I was a pita, but it was seamless with my current GC, and I dont suspect there will be any major problems.

When a potential customer calls and wants to spend their money, the worst thing a gc can do is blow them off, or ******** them. it seems this thread has some unprofessional contractors that i would bet are not very successful in their trade, if they disrespect potential customers as they admit on here to doing...

word gets around fast and believe me the guys that blew me off and/or bullshitted me will never get work from me or my buddies, or anyone that ever asks me for a referall, which happens quite often... Im sure the OP feels the same..

 

[Scott r c]

Ignoring potential customers is not a good practice. Just tell them you're not interested. Gc's like you are not professional.

I'm not a GC, I'm a plumbing contractor, mostly commercial. Ignoring people is what I choose if I can tell they are flakes, and there is plenty of them out there. They are not potential customers usually, just someone who doesn't value my expertise. So off to the real customers I go.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

It has to be a good fit for everyone involved, and also the timing has to be right.

 

[Scott H in Wheaton]

I don't have the option of ignoring customers/clients....but I do have the option of what I present to them.
If I get a reading this customer is wasting their time and mine by talking to me I'll let them know the project is not something we specialize in.
Perfect example is roof repairs....we only do complete replacements, so if I get the feeling someone is looking for a quick fix I'll agree with them that a repair would be an acceptable option but since we don't do that perhaps they should call another roofer who advertises repairs.
A lot of times they will push me and say "well, just give me a price for a whole new roof anyway, maybe I'll do the whole thing". Yeah right. If they can find someone to repair it for $500 there's no way they are spending $10k or more for a new roof. But at that point I'm required to go ahead and waste my time and theirs to measure and quote a whole roof. They figure, why not?, its a free estimate! Yeah, its free for you but not for me. My time, my fuel, my vehicle wear and tear, all that costs money.

Same for GC working on your addition. His estimate may be free to you, but it costs him time and fuel, and displaced time that he could be spending with someone he feels is more likely to become a profitable client. You gotta present your project in a way that he knows you are serious about moving forward and realistic on what you want and what those costs are.

 

[Punchwood]

Try this. Don't call them. Find out where buildings are being built. Find out who it is. Meet em on site. Tell them you have blah blah, You are face to face. Now if they are flakes. You will know it. No phone to hide behind This is not the guy you want building your garage is it. Keep looking. Make sure your organized. Start to finish, plans etc. cash. All ready to go.

They are making a living. Waste time with you or next guy with $$$ this is why they don't call back.

So in your world it's ok to slow down someone else's project by just walking onto their site and interrupting their GC ????? Not to mention the fact that the guy is at work and you just want to wander up, interrupt him, and talk about YOU?

Trust me, this is NOT the way to break the ice.

 

[John in OH]

Back to the OP's issue of why he got ignored…

Simple - you were too much work. Too high maintenance.

Now, before you get mad let me explain. Unless you come to the GC with a buildable plan - i.e., finished drawings an plot map - there are too many variables to quantify. To name a few:

What kind of foundation do you want? This could include the thickness and finish of the concrete. And that's ASSUMING you want concrete…

Do you want 2x4 or 2x6 walls? Or something else?

What kind of roof do you want? Which way does the ridge go? What pitch? What kind of shingles? (p.s. - it's MORE hassle if you tell me to "match the house" if you don't know what mfr. and style those shingles are.)

What doors and windows are wanted? Is he providing the OH door?

I could go on for pages, but these are the kind of things that make it impossible to give you a bid, and make this situation a contractor's nightmare. I, too, would walk away…but at least I'd tell you why. Or if I needed work I might offer to help you come up with a plan - for a price.

So - you wanted to vent? Now you see the other side. Hopefully it helps you understand how to approach the NEXT contractor in a manner that allows him to HELP you...

MN4X4 raises a lot of good points here. I've had GCs do a lot of work for me in both Ohio and Virginia so can see this discussion from both points of view.

First of all, the GOOD GCs usually have plenty of work and are quite busy. They don't have time to spend it running around working up bids for dreamers. They are good precisely because they focus on their current job, so you have to be willing to stand in line and give them time to respond.

When they do respond (and the good ones nearly always get back to you, just maybe not as quick as you would like) be ready to show them a solid plan that proves you are serious about the project. When the GC shows up for the first visit with you, be ready to prove you are serious:

1) Have a set of decent drawings ready to talk over, not a bunch of chicken scratches on a notepad;
2) Have a specification that lists a lot of the details that MN4X4 is talking about;
3) Have the planned site staked out with the approximate building corners so the GC can get a quick picture of location, drainage, access, etc.;
4) Have the building permit in your hands and give the GC a copy. GCs usually hate to screw around getting permits from the local bureaucrats using someone elses weak drawings; and lastly,
5) Don't be a jerk and try to prove how much you know about construction. Politely talk over the plans, spec, etc. and listen to the GC's questions and comments. If you don't make a cooperative impression, or if he gets bad vibes about you, he won't be interested in your project.

Then be ready to wait until he has time to work up a bid and get back to you. These GCs don't usually have a staff of estimaters sitting in some office somewhere. The GC will usually have to work up the bid himself on a rainy afternoon or some Sunday afternoon between family events etc. This effort of the bid prep takes time so he needs to know you are serious about the job.

And if you expect to get a GOOD GC at discount prices, you're dreaming. He is good because his work is precise, he pays attention to detail, he keeps his work sites clean, he pays his good helpers a decent wage, and he stands behind his work and corrects his errors. None of this is cheap.

And a final thing that a good GC does is give you a response. Despite how busy he may be, it only takes a few minutes to give you a call back and let you know if he's interested or not. If a GC isn't interested in doing a project for me that's OK, I don't even need to hear a reason why, but at least give me a call back and tell me if not interested. Then I can move on to someone else. Leaving potential clients/customers hanging in limbo with no response is grossly unprofessional.

 

[High5]

You guys are absolutely right when it comes to having plans and spec's in hand. We have 22 pages of specifications along with door and window schedules. The contractors we have met with really appreciated our efforts. Most, they say, don't do it and the result is a poorly quoted job or one that doesn't meet the customer's expectations.

As for prices? Man, don't I wish we could build a garage for what this poster is asking for. Our garage doors alone will cost what he wants the whole garage built for.

 

[Cougar]

You'll need to prove that over time as the number under your name gets bigger. Reading your original post, it's easy for some folks to assume otherwise.




Your expectations are way off. $70K for 900 sq. feet is $77 per sq. foot. That's about where it should be if you are planning the kind of garage that is discussed here. (Custom, drywall, some insulation, no holes in the walls, etc.) Completely finished house space will run you $125-$250 per square foot.




That's $280 per square foot. Depending on how much retro-fit you need to do to the existing structure, that might be reasonable. Your price per square foot will go up the smaller the project, but you should be able to get that down if you can find someone to do the addition and garage at the same time. (They can work more efficiently.)

That's the going rate around Chicago?
Seems high to me, $77 sq. ft. for a 30 x 30 nothing fancy garage.

 

[Cougar]

You guys are absolutely right when it comes to having plans and spec's in hand. We have 22 pages of specifications along with door and window schedules. The contractors we have met with really appreciated our efforts. Most, they say, don't do it and the result is a poorly quoted job or one that doesn't meet the customer's expectations.

As for prices? Man, don't I wish we could build a garage for what this poster is asking for. Our garage doors alone will cost what he wants the whole garage built for.

What kind of doors do you use?

 

[High5]

What kind of doors do you use?

They're 9' X 9' cedar doors. Small strip of windows along the top. Four in total. The quoted price included garage door openers on three of the doors. They run $1,500 each.

 

[Red05GT]

Thanks to John in Ohio for your insight. All of your comments are on the mark. A long
time customer referred me to a friend of theirs. The evening he wanted to meet I said
I could meet him between 5:30 and 6. This after a day of jobsite work. He insisted it
had to be 5 pm. I pull in to his drive at 5 on the nose to be greeted by the Cable guy
also waiting for the guy. An hour later the guy shows up. His excuse, he was running
late and he was held up at the Subway shop getting a sandwich on the way to the meet-ing. This meeting was at his second home on a private lake at which he arrived in his
new GT500. He didn't apologize to either of us. It instantly became how cheap everything
could be done. I never wasted my time getting back with him. At a future date the customer that referred me and I were talking and this guys name came up. I told them
what had transpired and what a tool I felt the guy was. They just referred me to another
friend whom I met with yesterday. Respect is a two way street. When you treat someone
like they are a dime a dozen, you will get the same treatment in return. Just sayin!

 

[workhurts]

It is just common courtesy to respond when you say you will respond. Why GCs or others can't seem to figure out that saying you will do something and then actually doing something isn't really all the difficult.

I do agree, it must be frustrating to bid out jobs and 'waste' time doing quotes on what must be less than a 10% hit rate. Not much to say there but it is part of the business till you develop enough clients and leads so yo can be a bit more choosy with customers/clients.

One reason I don't like the whole process is that quotes are usually all over the place. As an example, years ago on a townhouse I needed a 10x10 deck built. Prices came in between 2,200 - 5,500 or so. Someone want to tell me why such a range? I picked the $2,200 bid because the guy self performed quite a bit of it with a helper so his price made sense. I swear everyone else wasn't even doing thier own work ... seemed like a referral service where everyone just took a cut.

Oh well. It's your money ... spend it wisely.

 

[wssix99]

That's the going rate around Chicago?
Seems high to me, $77 sq. ft. for a 30 x 30 nothing fancy garage.

Who logs in to this site and really has or wants a "nothing fancy" garage? We'd have to see plans and specs to really know.

$77 is about right for a finished garage around here. (BTW - For calibration, the going rate for an inexpensive carpentry crew is a blended rate of $50+ an hour, blended across carpenters and helpers.)

 

[Cougar]

Who logs in to this site and really has or wants a "nothing fancy" garage? We'd have to see plans and specs to really know.

$77 is about right for a finished garage around here. (BTW - For calibration, the going rate for an inexpensive carpentry crew is a blended rate of $50+ an hour, blended across carpenters and helpers.)

I was going by what the OP posted in post #37.

30x30 garage with vinyl siding and minimal electric to meet code.

I think $70,000 for 30x30 nothing fancy garage is to much. $30,000 to $40,000 what do you think?

Not sure what the rate is in my area. Cost of living is much lower around here than in Chicago, that's the way it is.

 

[wssix99]

Without drywall, $70K may be a bit high, but a 30X30 garage is still a pretty big one. If the ceilings are over 8' high, then things start to really shoot up in price. Craning in trusses, working at height, long span trusses, etc.

Depending on the area, the GC may be compelled to use union labor and there can also be considerable fees to pay the inspector.