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I have a stupid question on measuring & cutting...

oldpops

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This might be a stupid question on measuring and cutting but I will ask anyway. Many, many years ago, when I was only elbow height to my own father, he showed me that you measure at least twice and THEN you cut. He also told me that when you draw the 'cut line', that the line 'ends' the piece that you want, so you should always cut just past the line. Made sense so I have always followed that. I recently had a conversation with a neighbor (woodworker) who said he always cuts 'on the line'?? When I asked him why, he answered that with a thin kerf blade it doesn't really matter. He went further to say that he sets his stop blocks up to cut that way as well. Thoughts??
 
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firebirdparts

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it doesn't really matter.
Obviously, it's to your advantage to be consistent. You cut anyway you want but you have to cut in a way that's consistent with the way you marked it. If he says he doesn't really care enough to even think about what consistency looks like to him, why would you care? My suspicion is that he's actually pretty consistent without bothering to tell you, but there could also be a factor that he just doesn't care much.

Using a thin kerf blade is not fun. That would not be a good choice of a way to help yourself be more lazy. not fun.
 

alfazer

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Doesn't matter so much if using a machine blade but traditionally if using a handsaw you would cut nearly up to the line, then plane, chisel, sand right to the line. Or file to scribed line, if it's metal.
This also works if cutting curved lines with say, a fret saw, then you might want to sand to the line. If you cut your line away, how are you going to file to that line to get the finished size, if the line is gone?
 

PoorUB

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When I asked him why, he answered that with a thin kerf blade it doesn't really matter. He went further to say that he sets his stop blocks up to cut that way as well. Thoughts??
Seriously? Even a thin kerf blade is about 3/32nds thick. If you are rough framing you can get by, but doing trim 3/32nds may as well be a mile. You need to account for where the blade is in relation to your mark and which side of the mark is the scrap.

I try leave a lopsided V and cut up to the point. I also take a second look at the tape measure and the relation to the mark I just drew and think where I want to cut, or how close or into the pencil mark.

Doing finishing work I might cut and trim a piece 2-3 times to fit it properly.

A while back I help a guy with some framing and his walls were a good 1/2" off. Maybe good enough for some, but it made me twitch. But once it was up, I wasn't going to tear it down!

Last time I framed up some walls everything was within 1/16"! It takes a few minutes longer, but having everything square and true makes it fit together better.
 

thr3squared

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Another vote for "just stay consistent". I always cut the line for framing but I also intentionally mark it to be cut. As was said for finish work better to leave a little extra and make a second cut if needed. With framing if you short a 2x4 you can often easily find another use for it....but with baseboards or crown molding you may be hosed. Just my 2 cents.
 

nadogail

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Because of inconsistencies in measuring and cutting; every wooden building requires a bundle of shingles to shim the various parts of the framing.
 

larry_g

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He also told me that when you draw the 'cut line', that the line 'ends' the piece that you want, so you should always cut just past the line.
If you do this then you are correct and that is YOUR method to getting things correct. Others may mark so that their mark is the center of the cut and that is their method. Whatever gets you the correct length and is consistent then it is correct for you. There is more than one way to do this.

lg
no neat sig line
 

Shiftless

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Because of inconsistencies in measuring and cutting; every wooden building requires a bundle of shingles to shim the various parts of the framing.
True
And inconsistent moisture content of framing lumber makes shrinkage inconsistent too. My FIL was a machinist by trade. When he and I were doing carpentry projects, he would make a cut, check the measurements with a steel tape and almost alway say”good enough for a carpenter”.
I miss him.
 

2Fast

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When I need a rip a board to the correct width, sometimes I will sneak up on it which leaves some pretty thin strips - 1/8" or less. I keep these strips and use them as 'story sticks' so there really isn't much measuring involved and it's pretty fool proof
 

rayra

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I always cut to remove the line, because the line marks always vary and can vary badly as I mark with whatever is at hand. ballpoint, sharp No2, lumber pencil, huge variations in mark thickness.
If you mark carefully such that your mark itself is all beyond the length you want, you cut to JUST remove the mark. This will work regardless of the thickness of your mark OR the kerf of the blade you are using.
I don't know of any other method that is more accurate.

ETA I will mark the cut and put a tic mark roughly perpendicular to my cut line, indicating which side of the line is the waste side. Then no matter what I do with the materiaI know which way to align the blade before cutting.
 
OP
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oldpops

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WOW! Thank you all for your help! My dad did finish carpentry (self taught) and when people would ask him how long it would take to make a piece of furniture, he would say: "as long as it takes". Of course my dad had a pretty good idea of how long it would take him to build something, but every once in awhile he would come across what he would call his 'stubborn cuts'. These would be the ones where he would sneak up to the cut line to have exact cuts. My dad would say he makes furniture for others like he does for his own family and he wants things he made to last. My brothers and sisters and I still have a bunch of his creations.
 

Steve W.

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If you are cutting what YOU have drawn lines on, there shouldn't be any problems.

HOWEVER, ... if someone else has drawn the line, it's best to ask them what the line/cut relationship should be.

.
 
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gerryw

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This might be a stupid question on measuring and cutting but I will ask anyway. Many, many years ago, when I was only elbow height to my own father, he showed me that you measure at least twice and THEN you cut. He also told me that when you draw the 'cut line', that the line 'ends' the piece that you want, so you should always cut just past the line. Made sense so I have always followed that. I recently had a conversation with a neighbor (woodworker) who said he always cuts 'on the line'?? When I asked him why, he answered that with a thin kerf blade it doesn't really matter. He went further to say that he sets his stop blocks up to cut that way as well. Thoughts??
Thats a very helpful question🤜🏻

Gerry
 

Zeke

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If you cut the line you can lose perspective on how you are angling your saw. Since most of this country uses a conventional circular saw, this is of concern. Less so if using a worm drive.

I kiss the line and leave enough to see the relationship of the buried blade in the wood from the front of the blade to the back. Sometimes you have to stop the cut and reposition. Knowing that the blade is parallel to the cut line is important if for some reason you need to pause the cut.

Yeah, I've heard all the expressions about shortening the cut or leaving some extra. Some are pretty creative (and crude). I've also heard many framers exclaim. "There ain't no 'steenths in a house." With today's lumber that rings even more true.
 

Daniel Dudley

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If I need something super tight, I will score the piece a razor knife, and cut right to the edge of the score. There are a bunch of different ways to measure or fit a joint. If I am framing, I use a flat pencil, and I sharpen it to resemble a marking knife blade or a chisel. You have a wide flat lead that way. If you keep flipping the pencil, it will wear off on the straight edge, and it will be self sharpening for a long time. You should be able to lay out a full set of stair stringers without having to resharpen a pencil. I frame with a 40 tooth Diablo blade, and they cut straight and true. I want a fine line, and I want to cut fine to the line. They cut framing lumber very well, and last a long time.

A few years ago, I was making cabinet carcasses out in the field. A carpenter ruined my saw guide to try to screw me. I used a straight edge and a razor knife, and cut right to the scored line. I did it just to show him I could. You can easily see the remains of the scored line at the edge of the cut, so you know how close you are. I use a base model 25 foot Stanley tape measure, and I always have a spare brand new one in my bag. You should know if your saw is true, and if the shoe is parallel to the blade. You should know if it is dead square. I will pin or hold up the guard when making fine cuts. It is hard to get a saw to start straight when fighting the guard. YOU should never do this, it is wrong, and it can hurt you. After the cut you can plane it, or you can hit it with some 100 grit on a block if you need to, or even a small belt sander with a fine belt. I still have pretty good vision. If you have the right kind of blade, you can drag the heel of the blade into the back of the cut, and it will steady the front for an accurate cut right on the money. I ONLY use Diablo blades. I only use Makita circular saws. Other saws are just as good, if not better. You aren't going to find a much better blade than a Diablo 40 or 60 tooth circular saw blade. A trash blade in your miter saw, circular saw or table saw is false economy. A good saw is also a worthwhile investment. A worker is only as good as his tools, particularly when one is learning.

Direct measurement, where you put a piece in place and mark it is one of the most accurate ways to measure. The finer your line, the more accurate it will be. The guy who taught me to measure and mark and use hand tools told me one thing I never forgot. He said, "If you learn to be accurate, you may eventually become fast and accurate. But if you just concentrate on being fast, you may become really fast, but you will never be accurate."

If you are careful and deliberate about how you do things, you will figure out what level of work you are comfortable with, and what works for you. If something seems difficult, or isn't working, stop and think. Most carpentry can be broken down into a series of simple steps. The guys who are saying cut it a little big and sneak up to it are on the right track. You can always make it a little smaller, but you can never make it a little bigger once it is too short. And there are different ways that you can make it shorter. The trick to accuracy is to practice making things consistently less long until you no longer have to fit them, or to have ways that you can precisely trim them a little shorter.
 

reader2580

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If you are giving lengths to the guy who is running a miter saw you need to be sure your tape measures match. My father and I were working on a rough carpentry project at a Boy Scout camp about two months ago. My father was running the miter saw and several of us were asking for various lengths of 1x2 furring strips. We kept having issues with boards ending up short. I finally realized the tip on my father's tape measure was bent in significantly like 1/8" or more so I found him another tape measure. My father was selecting the 1x2s to make the best use of the wood so he was marking the boards the way he wanted.

The 1x2s were just to hold aluminum screen down on the building so tiny gaps were no big deal. The buildings are no works of art and our furring strips were the nicest thing on the building. (They were painted before cutting and installing.)
 

My Old Tools

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Measure the piece after you cut it. That will tell you. I split the line, but if its joinery, I remeasure, If it is a piece like a stretcher for furniture, it's more important that they are all the same. Use a stop block.
 

buzzworth

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Louisville, KY
WOW! Thank you all for your help! My dad did finish carpentry (self taught) and when people would ask him how long it would take to make a piece of furniture, he would say: "as long as it takes". Of course my dad had a pretty good idea of how long it would take him to build something, but every once in awhile he would come across what he would call his 'stubborn cuts'. These would be the ones where he would sneak up to the cut line to have exact cuts. My dad would say he makes furniture for others like he does for his own family and he wants things he made to last. My brothers and sisters and I still have a bunch of his creations.
Cherish those pieces of your Dad.
 
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matt_i

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My method of work is to draw my cut line and then immediately draw an X on the side where I want the kerf to go. The stock can get flipped over when walking to the saw and its an easy countermeasure to what could be an expensive mistake depending on the cost and scarcity of the raw stock.
 

smackey05

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I mostly cut right on the edge of the line. A lot goes into the decision though. What type of blade am I using and how thick is it (on line vs. edge), what am I building and what are the needed tolerances, and what is the material I am cutting.
 

Bill T

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My Dad always told me" If you can't split a pencil line with your saw, you have no buisness using it"
 

Cooter Brown

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In a framing setting, you tell the cut man to leave the line or take the line. "Heavy or "light" is also understood as the same.
Exactly right, and the way I was taught by an excellent carpenter I was lucky to work with.

When you hear that being called out on a job site you know they're doing good work.
 

jar944

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I recently had a conversation with a neighbor (woodworker) who said he always cuts 'on the line'?? When I asked him why, he answered that with a thin kerf blade it doesn't really matter. He went further to say that he sets his stop blocks up to cut that way as well. Thoughts??

Unless your neighbor is talking about framing houses. Or concrete forms. OK.

If he is talking about anything else he is a idiot.
 
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