I have given up... We can't do it...

[HoosierMark]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

INteresting thread. As a former small town banker I found that there were people who were cash people and could not handle checking accts or CC. I also found that there were a lot of people who could not save money but if they had a debt they always found the money to pay it on time. Got a mother in law who lived that way for years. She adjusted her spending to whatever she had.
It is a mental thing, it is not about who much you make. It is about what your priorities are. People who are just getting by still manage to save some money if that is what is important to them.
Training and discipline on how money works and impacts your life is worth it's weight in gold. To the OP, you are better off then you think, you recognize the challenge facing you and now you have choices about how you want to structure your financial future. There is no wrong or right way as long as it works for you and you enjoy your life.

 

[volvo]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

..
Welcome to the land of the have nots.

 

[LX-Markham]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

INteresting thread. ...I also found that there were a lot of people who could not save money but if they had a debt they always found the money to pay it on time.

Interesting observation, and I know many people like that: they are better with a payment plan than they are with a sack/mattress full of money.

 

[metalhead212121]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I read yesterday that the Captain & Tennille are getting divorced, they're in their 70s. Speculation is that they are doing it to protect their assets from health care costs. He's sick, but she got all the assets in the divorce so they can't take them from him. Helluva world we live in when you're pretty much forced to take such steps.

I hate to say it but I think if thats true its a smart move. I laugh at all these companies that donate money to a charity or put up solar panels to help the environment and claim that they actually care about things other than themselves. They only do it for tax writeoffs and kick backs (IMO).

For the record as a teenager (and even now) I had/have dreams of doing a "Joe" job. You go to work do your time come home repeat for the next 25 to 40 years. Retirement/healthcare would all be taken care of through my employer. Yes I can think of a few people that I personally know that have this life. I figured with this mindset I'd NEVER have a new sports car or big house deal but as long as I was comfortable I'd be happy.

At the end of the day you have to lie, cheat, steal and bend the rules to some degree to get ahead. Just my .02

 

[Tucko]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

At 46 years of age, I have resigned myself to the idea that WE lack the ability to put aside money at a rate that exceeds inflation. Its cheaper for me to pay the interest and to have it now than it would be to wait... and do it with cash.

Despite having paid our home off 10+ years ago, we seem to make almost no headway saving money. We bought a $40,000 Tahoe in 2007 and paid it off in 362 days, but haven't been able to accumulate a similar amount in a savings account in the last 7 years since.

I cant keep fighting this fight. I have succumbed...

Given the super low cost of money last year, We pulled a cash out REfi for less than 80% of our home's value. Projects include redoing the kitchen, building a deck, buying a toy or 3 and with what is left over building the shell of a Shed that will end up having to wait until additional monies comes available to finish.

Ever find yourself here?
Chris

Never found myself there. Even with me being laid off for most of the last 3 years, we are managing to survive on my wife's check. Then again, I don't piss away good money on $40,000 cars either....

 

[pop pop]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

There are some basic rules to resolve your situation. Discipline on finance comes to mind.
It's not smart to borrow money to purchase depreciating "assets". The goal is to continue to improve your "wealth". Money makes money and it takes discipline not to spend your capital. Once your capital is gone, you cannot produce wealth.

 

[gpalmer77]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

We owe no money but the mortgage, which we recently refinanced into a 3.75% loan over 15 years, for the same monthly payment as we had for the 24 years left on our 30 year original loan. As much as I hate it sometimes, my wife only lets us buy things on the credit card that can be paid off that month when the bill comes. We also have no car payments, as someone else already said, you should not finance a depreciating asset.

For those that think that auto interest rates are low, it is just built into the price you're paying. Go in with a wad of cash and see how much the price goes down.

We put aside a certain amount each month for car maintenance, and also save for the next vehicle while we're destroying the current one. We buy cars with about 90-100k miles that are 8-10 years old, and try to make them last another 8-10 or more. Nothing depreciates faster than a new vehicle.

 

[1507dennis]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

At 46 years of age, I have resigned myself to the idea that WE lack the ability to put aside money at a rate that exceeds inflation. Its cheaper for me to pay the interest and to have it now than it would be to wait... and do it with cash.

Despite having paid our home off 10+ years ago, we seem to make almost no headway saving money. We bought a $40,000 Tahoe in 2007 and paid it off in 362 days, but haven't been able to accumulate a similar amount in a savings account in the last 7 years since.

I cant keep fighting this fight. I have succumbed...

Given the super low cost of money last year, We pulled a cash out REfi for less than 80% of our home's value. Projects include redoing the kitchen, building a deck, buying a toy or 3 and with what is left over building the shell of a Shed that will end up having to wait until additional monies comes available to finish.

Ever find yourself here?
Chris

This sound like irrational actions and only a very small part of the whole story..

 

[gpalmer77]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

We were also lucky that we built the garage (self-build, not yet complete) without borrowing money. We just squirreled away a couple of tax refunds that were larger than expected, saved what was left at the end of each month, and took other expenses easy for a while.

My wife is a part time stay at home Mom, but we built our lives around surviving off one income, anything my wife earns part time goes towards extra vacations, or nice to have items. We're currently saving for a concrete driveway, hopefully to be done this Spring.

I used to be buy now, pay later...... it takes a little while and some hard graft to get into the buy now, pay now mode, but my wife helped us get there.

 

[gpalmer77]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

To the OP, I'm not against the kitchen remodel, or maybe even the deck with cash-out refi money....... but if there is money left over for toys..... pay it back into the mortgage and save your spare cash for those. The toys do nothing to increase the value of your home.

A wide man once said...... "Your home is an asset...... your vehicles and toys are mostly liabilities." I think this was my bank manager.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

At 46 years of age, I have resigned myself to the idea that WE lack the ability to put aside money at a rate that exceeds inflation.

If this includes retirement savings, I hope you have a not too physical job that will be around for the next 24 years, because you won't be retiring until you are 70 ! Maybe 75 !!

 

[GTO]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I stopped reading when you said you spent 40K on a depreciating asset

 

[e-tek]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

your priorities seem to be toys and cosmetics.

And the problem with that is......?

Bad move.

I think the point he was trying to make is to go out with negative net worth.

lg
no neat sig line

He who dies with the most debt...wins.

The last check you write should be to the undertaker. It should bounce.

http://books.google.com/books/about/Die_Broke.html?id=7RGbyOcoEpwC

Of course the take away is to make sure you gift $/stuff to those you want to do better than you (your children). Too many people actually do die broke (or poor) and their children remain on the bottom rung. I took a page from my Asian friends book (I met many in University): help to move the next generation up the ladder. Better education, rental properties, investments and teach them all about money and how to handle it. So many of us were taught nothing - and given less. When we finally get a little inheritance (or worse, have to pay for a funeral!) we have no clue what to do with it - and it's too late anyways....

Just my take.

 

[nmcqueen469]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

Good thread!

Keep the responses coming.

 

[lat905]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I stopped reading when you said you spent 40K on a depreciating asset

Some people feel differently on vehicles though. I'm one of them. I absolutely refuse to drive junk. I am well aware that the asset is losing value over time, but my comfort and enjoyment of the vehicle are what I am paying for with that depreciation.

Some people are so caught up in saving and increasing wealth that they miss the enjoyable parts.

President of my company is like that. He's worth millions, and will soon cash out of the company with a whole lot more, but drives a 1990's Toyota Camry. He feels there is no value in a vehicle because it loses value, so a car is a device to get from point A to point B. As long as it does that, he's fine with it.

I demand comfort, power, sportiness, and fun from my daily driver vehicles. I like new vehicles. I absolutely hate owning other peoples ****. So I buy new, enjoy it, and trade it before 100k if I can. I'm paying for the enjoyment I get from owning that vehicle. Some of that enjoyment comes from the security of the warranty, and the reduced likelihood of breakdowns with a new vehicle.

That being said, I buy very carefully, negotiate hard, and reduce my loss as much as possible.

 

[onewheat]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

Some people feel differently on vehicles though. I'm one of them. I absolutely refuse to drive junk. I am well aware that the asset is losing value over time, but my comfort and enjoyment of the vehicle are what I am paying for with that depreciation.

Some people are so caught up in saving and increasing wealth that they miss the enjoyable parts.

President of my company is like that. He's worth millions, and will soon cash out of the company with a whole lot more, but drives a 1990's Toyota Camry. He feels there is no value in a vehicle because it loses value, so a car is a device to get from point A to point B. As long as it does that, he's fine with it.

I demand comfort, power, sportiness, and fun from my daily driver vehicles. I like new vehicles. I absolutely hate owning other peoples ****. So I buy new, enjoy it, and trade it before 100k if I can. I'm paying for the enjoyment I get from owning that vehicle. Some of that enjoyment comes from the security of the warranty, and the reduced likelihood of breakdowns with a new vehicle.

That being said, I buy very carefully, negotiate hard, and reduce my loss as much as possible.

Exactly what he said - I don't have any problem buying new and enjoying what I have bought. I don't want someone else's problem. I like my toys - have bought many of them new. They depreciate, so what? Everyone spends their money on the things they like and enjoy. You can not take it with you. I could be dead tomorrow and then what? I didn't enjoy my earnings why? So I could give it all away? I have a fully funded 401, money in the bank, and I'm not worried about the few bills I have. When my Denali comes in - I will write them a check, enjoy driving it off the lot and could care less that it will depreciate. One of you guys will be around in 10 years to buy a well-maintained, too often oil changed, older truck that doesn't look like it is for a really good deal. I'm fine with that - but you won't get that new car and leather smell with it.

 

[Travis28715]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

With the condition of the economy lately, alot have found themselves in the same predicament. You can't give up. Things will improve. My income has been cut in half since 1986. I almost thought of taking this opportunity to "reinvent" myself. Problem is the jobs that are in most demand, I find less than interesting. The tortoise sometimes wins the race.
I made an inventory of everything I felt I needed. The results were very revealing. I also asked the opinion of some of my elders who truly remembered hard times. These times are nothing. Most all were eager to pass down lessons learned over a lifetime and wisdom gained. Keep your head up. This too will pass.

 

[BJ42LX]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

3 years ago we started saving fives, have over $15000 so far.

Congratulations!

In 20 years you'll be able to retire on the mac-n-cheese meal plan!

 

[Kels]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

This is really interesting.

I just got a small inheritance and am trying to figure out what to do with it. Meeting with my Credit Unions Financial Adviser today. Then will meet with a few more and go from there.

When I met my husband he had so much debt it was mind blowing to me, he had claimed bankruptcy in his early 20s. So I started working on getting his debt paid off and do my best to teach him money management. Today we now own our own house, have less then 500 in debt (0% interest). We should be saving more, Life has gotten hectic and my budget has just gotten nutts. Husband been working odd jobs recently so its hard to know what his income will be so its like trying to hit a moving target.

Spending money give me anxiety, always has. Buyers remorse is terrible and takes all the fun out of the toy or clothing you don't need... at least it does for me. I do not like to shop! Speaking of how in the heck has the clothing quality gotten so bad yet the price is so much more. 10 years ago if I bought a shirt ... Well I still have those shirts, I buy one today and the stupid shirts don't even last a year!

Maybe part of it is that opportunity cost, if I spend 1k on that new nice digital camera I'd like to have then maybe I'll miss out on a cool vacation or not be able to fix my car when something happens.

When we got our house I gave up a lot of things I want for now to keep things in our budget and less expensive. I want so bad some day to design my own house... I have always wanted to do this! but after setting aside a fake mortgage for a while for what the house might cost us...I said hell NO. we where not ready to make those kinds of payments. That and with the economy the way it is I decided we would be smart to be able to live off of one persons income. So I broke down and got a manufactured home... The new ones are much nicer then the older ones. We did upgrades to it ones that I felt good about (more floor joists then standard, better roof pitch, energy star rated) I didn't upgrade my counter tops or the master bath. I did splurge and get a covered porch 8ftx26ft, love it was so worth it! That said we owe ~54K and the payments are only $735 a month with property taxes. I love it when I know it would cost me more to rent an appt then live in my house!

I am still hell bent on having a house built that I design some day but not until we are ready and it make sense financially.

Money Management comes down to your priorities, and the tools your arm yourself with in dealing with meeting those priorities.

You just got to figure out what you want more! if your lost on how to get there, do some reading meet with your credit unions financial adviser.

 

[MoparTrucks]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

My wife and I treat savings like a bill and we save 10% each month and that is the bill we pay first. I have also found that saving up for things is actually enjoyable. I saved for several years for my shop and paid cash for it to be put up and now little by little I save for electrical and to equip it. I have plenty of money in savings to just have it done but savings are for emergencies in our world. I should also state that our 10% goes into the main savings and we have several separate savings accounts for the farm or for specific things like the shop...its just easier for me to see amounts grow that way.

I dont have much in the way of payments each month but I think some of you are a bit harsh in your criticism of the Tahoe. The wife and I bought a 2003 GMC 2500HD 4x4 back in Dec 2002 on a 0% interest deal and paid it off in a little over 2 years; we still have it and I dont regret purchasing that "depreciating asset" one bit. We also were saving up for an RV but found the perfect new camper last year when we were just looking around and dreaming for payments of $96 a month with no money down. Instant gratification maybe but we could well afford it and to me its just making other peoples money work for me.

Just watch out for the traps. I am sitting on close to 200K in land and farm equipment that is all paid off and sometimes its very tempting to dip into that equity.

 

[skyking]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I love you guys that buy NEW vehicles . You pay $40k and I buy it from you in 4 years for $15K. It wont smell like new leather after my Jack Russell farts in it any way .
I think you will find that most folks that can afford to buy new , with cash , Don't. That is one reason they can.

I will also tell you that most people that retire before the age of 60 are debt free.

The good news is that it costs less to live ,and live well after you retire.

You dont have to be a multi millionaire.

I speak from my experience only. I am already there. I hope the best for all of you.

 

[musgofasta]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

(Finance major with MBA)

With today's financing rates on purchasing, abysmal savings rates, and negative real savings rate after adjusting for inflation, it can make a little more sense to play with OPM's than at any other time in your life. (Other People's Money).

If you can easily afford the payment, you've got to be able to balance instant gratification vs delayed gratification.

Read up on "opportunity costs" of money and the like if you want to get into more of the details.

There aren't a lot of good-credit risk people left after the housing bust, so the leverage begins to work in your favor and 0% credit cards and auto loans can make a lot of sense vs 0.5% savings account rates.

 

[lat905]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I love you guys that buy NEW vehicles . You pay $40k and I buy it from you in 4 years for $15K. It wont smell like new leather after my Jack Russell farts in it any way .
I think you will find that most folks that can afford to buy new , with cash , Don't. That is one reason they can.

I will also tell you that most people that retire before the age of 60 are debt free.

The good news is that it costs less to live ,and live well after you retire.

You dont have to be a multi millionaire.

I speak from my experience only. I am already there. I hope the best for all of you.

I'll never live long enough to retire anyways. Nobody in my family has. So I refuse to plan for a day I will never see. My 401k is a parting gift to my wife and kids.......

 

[skyking]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I'll never live long enough to retire anyways. Nobody in my family has. So I refuse to plan for a day I will never see. My 401k is a parting gift to my wife and kids.......

That is so sad.............I hope you are very wrong. IM sure they would much rather your old *** around than the money.

I got my first job when I was eight at a welding shop and immediatly started thinking about retirement. I was never one to have a boss or be tied down. I always felt like the one that could not find my way. In the end it all worked out. At 62 I cant believe how fast our lives pass by.Hopefully I have another 15 or 20 years of health .

 

[SARG]

Just a couple observations ....

Has anyone else noticed all the new car advertising on TV ? It is all about the lease now. No one seems to have the money to buy.

Check KBB for prices on a Tahoe today. I looked last week and it was $65k.

I saved for about 30 years and now we're retired .... but work a small part time job ....... and after 7 years we still haven't touched any savings and the checking account seems to continue to get fatter all the time.

I guess with older age comes less expenses or perhaps it's all about "almost" being a hermit.

 

[lat905]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

That is so sad.............I hope you are very wrong. IM sure they would much rather your old *** around than the money.

I got my first job when I was eight at a welding shop and immediatly started thinking about retirement. I was never one to have a boss or be tied down. I always felt like the one that could not find my way. In the end it all worked out. At 62 I cant believe how fast our lives pass by.Hopefully I have another 15 or 20 years of health .

Nobody in my family has lived past 65. My parents died at 53 and 59. I'm 37 and I have diabetes. I control it well, but it does damage regardless.

My youngest kid is 2 months old, so he will get out of college when I am 60, which means I need to work until at least 66 or so. Pensions are a thing of the past, so all that's left is my own savings. I can either save everything and miss out on having any fun until I'm retired, or I can have fun my entire life and not worry about it. My parents planned to retire, did everything right, lived on a budget, never took vacations, always drove old cars. They both died and never got to enjoy anything.

Therefore, no real plans on retiring. My hobbies are way to expensive to allow retirement anyways.

FWIW---I'm an engineer. As long as my brain keeps working, I'll be able to work, so its not like I won't be able to work when (if) I'm older.

 

[Micscience]

It kills me the fact that you could do all those things if we didn't have such a destructive economy. The prices per items have never changed. Inflation keeps on inflating while people keep on adapting to harder and harder times, what happens when we cannot adapt to our financial circumstances anymore? I think it's time to end the making money out of nothing idea.

 

[HAY YOU]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

Oh yes they can, & do. Death taxes for starters & under the new ACA rules they can come after your estate for medical expenses.

Spouses of deceased have always had to pay outstanding medical bills, just like estates of deceased have to also pay them. Elderly Folks either get divorced or never get married to further their financial benefits, that’s nothing new.

 

[Orange65]

I live by a few guidelines financially:

1. Spend money where you have to, don't spend it where you don't. Do I need a $1K camera or will a $100 get me by fine?
2. Save off the top. That gives you a limited amount to work from. I have over quadrupled my income in the past 20 years and I can still spend every penny of it if I let myself.
3. Major items like cars and houses- they are not a bank. Once you pay them off, do not refi them.
4. Never buy a toy with savings. If you can't afford to buy it out the paycheck or finance it for little interest, don't buy it. I have two types of savings- what I keep in my checking and what I keep in an actual savings account. I don't touch the savings account for the toys.
5. Control credit card use to a minimum.

Consequently, IMO the OP chose poorly by refinancing his house for some toys and "updates". The OP needs to gain some self control and seek financial counseling. If you can't save with no bills, paying the new bill is going to really cause an issue.

I have a friend that has to have everything and has no self control. He is in more debt than he will ever be able to pay off in his lifetime. He constantly borrows money from loan companies- I am surprised he has not filed for bankruptcy already. BUT he has all kine of toys. I can't live like that. I don't mind making a payment when required, but he has taken it to an extreme.

And to the few that have responded about living using other peoples money thru low interest loans. That works fine if you have $ coming in to make the payments. But if you lose your job, bye bye to all the stuff you owe on. That kind of thinking killed a lot of companies several years ago when the economy took a nose dive. But then again, that is what they teach in business school these days.

As for dying in debt- do what has already been mentioned and get everything out of your name because those you owe get first shot at your estate. But then again, IMO, if you purposely die in debt by getting everything out of your name you are effectively stealing.

 

[MadMax11]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

"My parents planned to retire, did everything right, lived on a budget, never took vacations, always drove old cars. They both died and never got to enjoy anything."

So many people seem to have this mentality. It's either I have fun forever by spending all my money or I'm doomed to a life of bore and savings.

Doomed!

Why can't people just spend intelligently? (Example: buying last year's brand new model of truck from the dealer for $30k instead of this year's for $40k, if for some reason you really need that new car smell and don't want to buy a car freshener)

You're saying you can't enjoy an old car? "Old" does not mean "bad". Yes there's maintenance with an old car, but how much does the dealer charge you to change your oil in your brand new truck?

I could go on forever about how people are obsessed with things, but instead I'll leave you with some humor (and truth) on the subject:

TLDR:
"Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions." - Dalai Lama

 

[SARG]

In response to the borrow & buy now versus saving for something. A quick look at an Amortization table would provide an answer.

I recently sold a house and the only way we could do it was to hold the mortgage for four years.

The buyer will be paying us an additional 10 grand ( 5% rate ) over the initial cost.

I wouldn't do that.

 

[onewheat]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I love you guys that buy NEW vehicles . You pay $40k and I buy it from you in 4 years for $15K. It wont smell like new leather after my Jack Russell farts in it any way .
I think you will find that most folks that can afford to buy new , with cash , Don't. That is one reason they can.

Not true - I bought a loaded 2003 4WD 1500HD Silverado LT in November of 2002 for $34,500. I drove it for 165,000 miles over 11 years doing mainly routine maintenance on it. Just sold it for $15,500. Depreciation cost me about $0.11 a mile. It was a great truck, I kept it in nice shape and all I had to do to sell it was drive it to work. I got approached by a guy who wanted it. SOLD

 

[EOC_Jason]

I have some mutual funds that have been doing very well. However interest rates at banks for CDs & Money Markets is practically 0%... Ever since the Fed decided to loan money to banks with no interest, the banks have no need to "borrow" your money (and thus pay you interest for it). They borrow from the government at 0% and whatever they loan it out to people they are making that % profit...

I still stash cash away, even though it looses value over time it's there when I want / need to buy something. Also when you whip out cash people are more willing to haggle on price.

 

[TheGunCollector]

I'd hate to say it - but other than paying off the mortgage early, it seems like you've made some poor financial decisions.

A $40,000 vehicle?!? The typical millionaire doesn't drive a vehicle that costly?

ReFi'ing the house to redo the kitchen, build a deck, buy a toy or 3?

You could've bought a rental property producing $10K or more a year for the money you wasted on that ****.

 

[Kev442]

You lost me at can't save enough to stay ahead of inflation. Inflation is 2.5%. A few times in the last 7 years it's been stagflation, ask the SS people who got zero % increase a couple of years in the last seven.

 

[HemiRambler]

As a young child my Grandfather told me the best advice ever, "spend a little, save a little" It really IS that simple.

 

[skyking]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

Not true - I bought a loaded 2003 4WD 1500HD Silverado LT in November of 2002 for $34,500. I drove it for 165,000 miles over 11 years doing mainly routine maintenance on it. Just sold it for $15,500. Depreciation cost me about $0.11 a mile. It was a great truck, I kept it in nice shape and all I had to do to sell it was drive it to work. I got approached by a guy who wanted it. SOLD

Obviously I need you to sell my ****.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

I'll never live long enough to retire anyways. Nobody in my family has. So I refuse to plan for a day I will never see. My 401k is a parting gift to my wife and kids.......

I hope to live many years into retirement, and I am planning for it. BUT, my wife and I also believe in living while we can, when we can. It is a balancing act. You should not live FOR retirement while not really enjoying life, especially young. Balance means that if I retire in poor health I will have at least lived and enjoyed while I was in good health.

 

[JimVonBaden]

It kills me the fact that you could do all those things if we didn't have such a destructive economy. The prices per items have never changed. Inflation keeps on inflating while people keep on adapting to harder and harder times, what happens when we cannot adapt to our financial circumstances anymore? I think it's time to end the making money out of nothing idea.

This is nothing new. People have said this for 50 years or more. A person needs to adapt to a changing world, not wish the world wouldn't change.

 

[lat905]

Re: I have given up... We cant do it...

"My parents planned to retire, did everything right, lived on a budget, never took vacations, always drove old cars. They both died and never got to enjoy anything."

So many people seem to have this mentality. It's either I have fun forever by spending all my money or I'm doomed to a life of bore and savings.

Doomed!

Why can't people just spend intelligently? (Example: buying last year's brand new model of truck from the dealer for $30k instead of this year's for $40k, if for some reason you really need that new car smell and don't want to buy a car freshener)

You're saying you can't enjoy an old car? "Old" does not mean "bad". Yes there's maintenance with an old car, but how much does the dealer charge you to change your oil in your brand new truck?

I could go on forever about how people are obsessed with things, but instead I'll leave you with some humor (and truth) on the subject:

TLDR:
"Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions." - Dalai Lama

I enjoy old vehicles also, I have a 44 year old truck I am restoring.

And I change my own oil. Every time I have let a dealer do it they screw something up.

Point was, buying a brand new vehicle is not always as much of a waste as some like to rant about.