I have no idea

[Bill LeMieux]

First post here and first time builder of anything. I live in extreme northern Mississippi in an efficiency apartment and my landlord is coming over in a few days to discuss my query about adding on a garage to the existing house. I don't have a clue what I'm in for as I'm not a builder but I told him that I would build the garage if he would pay for it and not ever raise my rent.

So, the only thing, so far, that I'm not sure about is:
1. Can I attach the garage to the house using the existing exterior house wall and will that wall (2x4 frame, no basement) support the extra weight of the garage without any additional footings?

2. If I need a separate footing for the attached garage, how does one create a separate footing for the garage that is right next to the house footing, and do I need to tie the two footings together?

The length of the existing house is 24' long. I plan is to make the garage 24' x 16'.

Any incite is appreciated and thanks in advance for your input.
Bill

 

[Gary S]

Contact your local building authority first. They can tell you what your building codes are and what you need to do to comply with the rules.
Building a garage on a rental doesn't make sense unless the landlord is paying for it, and in that case, he is the one who needs to get the building permit and assure it meets all codes.

 

[signcrafter]

I'm not trying to be negative here so don't take this the wrong way. But if you have never built anything, building a garage for some one else(your landlord) isn't a good thing. If anything goes wrong or isn't right you are responsible. If it was your own property I would say go for it and learn as you go. But learning on someone else's property can lead to major problems if you don't do something right. A garage isn't rocket science but it does take a bit of knowledge and experience to do things right. If you had some experience you might be able to pull it off but you say you have never built anything. Just my opinion.

 

[Glenn M.]

Welcome to the Garage Journal from VA!
I think I'm with Gary S on this one - take your time and learn what the building codes demand of the build.
If you can, post a pic of the house and desired location of the garage.

 

[Bill LeMieux]

Gary S.; As I stated, my landlord IS paying for it. I need a garage/shop and elected to do as much work as I can to save him money so as to have a better chance at talking him into this project. When the landlord pulls the permits do they come with local codes, etc. or is this something I need to know in advance i.e. drawings and such? I'm just trying to get a handle on this as I don't have a clue.

Signcrafter; Not a single blade of grass will be disturbed until I have the whole design (every board, every hole, every nail, every joist, every shingle, every junction box, everything!) on paper and approved by someone in-the-know. I'll even show y'all my design for scrutany. When you say ok, then I'll pull the permits.

 

[Bill LeMieux]

Glen; great idea! I'll do so after work. Thanks...

 

[LB-1911]

When the landlord pulls the permits do they come with local codes, etc. or is this something I need to know in advance i.e. drawings and such? I'm just trying to get a handle on this as I don't have a clue.

You may want to get on the www and do a search using the name of your "town/city - bldg permit "

Your a long way off from getting the permits pulled.

 

[ford33]

This seems like an expensive and time consuming project for someone who never built anything. The risk is high that you will not finish it. I am all for learning new skills and expanding your experience but this is a big jump from no skills to building a permitted structure. It will take you time to develop the skills needed to complete it correctly meanwhile your landlord will want the project finished in a reasonable time.

Why not have a contractor build the garage structure and you provide the finishing details inside. You could install the wall surface, lights, tool storage and finish the floor. That would add value and keep you involved in short skill building projects. Your confidence will increase and so will your capability to tackle larger multi-skill projects.

 

[Anglia Guy]

I agree. I would be very careful about building a structure on someone else's property. Especially when you have no experience. It sounds disasterous to me.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

First post here and first time builder of anything. I live in extreme northern Mississippi in an efficiency apartment and my landlord is coming over in a few days to discuss my query about adding on a garage to the existing house. I don't have a clue what I'm in for as I'm not a builder but I told him that I would build the garage if he would pay for it and not ever raise my rent.

So, the only thing, so far, that I'm not sure about is:
1. Can I attach the garage to the house using the existing exterior house wall and will that wall (2x4 frame, no basement) support the extra weight of the garage without any additional footings?

2. If I need a separate footing for the attached garage, how does one create a separate footing for the garage that is right next to the house footing, and do I need to tie the two footings together?

The length of the existing house is 24' long. I plan is to make the garage 24' x 16'.

Any incite is appreciated and thanks in advance for your input.
Bill

Garage or shop attached to rental unit=bad idea,,, firewall required,,, increased insurance,,, noise for other tenants,,, and sorry but you are not Bill the Builder with the knowledge to proceed with such a project on a rental unit........ Just telling you the way it is... best forget this idea

 

[Jagmandave]

Go to your local lumber yard and see if they have a basic 2-car "garage kit", it will come with all the engineered drawings and specs needed to get a permit, those drawings will help you figure out the how-to's as well. You are going to need some help, putting up a large building is not a one man job, so why not hire someone who knows how to do it and you be their helper? That way it gets done right, and you get to learn. The kit will also come with everything you need including roofing, and be delivered to your location as you need it. Rather than making it an attached addition and having to worry about roof connections, fire walls etc, if you buy a kit like this and have the room you can set it off a bit from the house and not have to worry about fire walls and such.

You also need to plan at least for electricity, and possibly heat and/or A/C.

This is a do-able project, but you need to get your ducks in a row first.

Here's an example from our local lumber yard, they've been selling these for ages and have done thousands of them.... http://sutherlands.com/cimarron.php?loc=0#.UfACzl8o5ok

They have other packages, this is just an example...

and here is a very basic how-to article to build it from the same site....

http://sutherlands.com/resources/article.php?id=58#.UfADe18o5ok

 

[nolimits76]

I think you have good intentions, but frankly what gain is there for the landlord?

He gains a garage on his property but will it yield him higher rents (profits)? Apparently not while you live there if he agrees to your deal to "never" raise rent (get that in writing) on you. Yet he still has the added expense of the materials, permits, increased property taxes and increased property insurance. Not to mention the potential headache and fail rate from employing someone to do the build that doesn't know what they are doing.

None of this is meant as a dig at you. Just trying to be honest, and understand why the landlord would go for it. It has to be a win-win situation. I see your side. You put in the labor, and get a garage. His side is just expense after expense with no way to regain from his initial investment until you move and he/she gets a new renter (assuming you finish the job correctly).

If I were your landlord, there is too much risk and not enough reward, so I would deny this request.

That being said, you need to pull local building codes as the first step. I suspect you will require a fire rated wall and footings as already mentioned. You will also have to consider how to extend utilities (electric minimum) to the garage area and if licensed professionals are required or if you can do that yourself. Around here MEP work is monitored more closely. Another potential major issue is tying in the different roof systems.

The more I think about this, the more I realize this is a big job for a first time guy that hasn't built anything. Do you know anyone with the right skill set to help you?

 

[DoyleDee]

I'm thinkig a carport type of garage would be a better solution, for you and the landlord.
Cost is everything, and unless he can profit from it I don't see you getting far. A carport type of garage would be your least expense and put up in a day or less (not including concrete).

 

[Bill LeMieux]

Because my landlord is coming to discuss this with me is reason enough to believe that he might say yes. His reasons for his decision are his own and don't concern me. I just want to be prepared with as much information as I can get which is why I am on this forum.

Gentlemen, I am 55 years old. I have enough time on this earth to know a little about a lot of things. Just because I have never constructed a framed structure before does not mean that I cannot do it. Information on such things is everywhere. I can read and write and use a tape measure. Really, how hard can it be to nail some lumber together in such a way to build an encloser? I don't mean to undermine the expertise involved in your chosen field of expertice as I certainly will not be able to build this garage with the speed and foreknowledge as y'all have under your belts, but I assure you, I CAN do this with some help from people that do know, like you! That is why I am here. You can try to talk me out of it or you can help me gain the knowledge that I need to proceed. Either way, I AM going to proceed if I get the ok from my landlord.

If you don't wish to help me then I will look elsewhere.

So again I ask you; Will the existing wall of the existing house support the weight of a garage without the need to add a separate footing? Was the footing built with specific loads in mind for the structure being built on it? If that question can't be answered then what additional information would you need TO answer it?

If I understand frost line depth for this part of the country, the footings only have to be 12 or 14 inches down. I'll dig a hole and post a picture of the footings if that's what it takes to get an answer.

My initial unknowledgable plan was to remove the siding and exterior wood to expose the framing within, add 2x8's? to that lumber, then rest the garage roof rafters on the beefed-up exterior wall and also tie them to the existing rafters of the house. As far as the flame resistance needed I understand that 3/8" fire-rated gypsum board extending to the rafters will suffice.

Please, my design is my design for my reasons. I don't wish to talked into anything like a free standing structure. If you will just help me build what I want I will be most gratefull. Thanks for all the replies thus far...

 

[LB-1911]

A visit with the folks at your local Bldg Dept / Permitting Office would be time well spent.
I would be surprised if there wasn't info packets / info sheets that address several of the areas in question.

-----------------------------------------------------
Mississippi -
Effective November 15, 2011 the adoption of a statewide building code was finalized by the Mississippi Building Code Council and became enforceable immediately.

The MS Building Code Council has adopted the 2006 complete family of I-Codes as the minimum codes for the state of Mississippi.

This means that if a jurisdiction chooses to adopt a code or update their currents codes they must be at a minimum one or more of the 2006 family of I-Codes.

http://www.iccsafe.org/gr/Pages/MS.aspx

 

[Super Sport]

My garage was added to my house before I purchased it. No additional support was added, but not much weight was added to that wall as the walls perpendicular are the major load bearing walls. The answer to this question, I'm sure, will be dependent on your current structure.

 

[buddyboy]

usually when you trade your services for money or lower rent the person doing the services has experience performing those services or the services are at such a low skill level that little to no experience is required (lawn mowing, painting..)

if you hired someone to build your garage you would expect them to have experience in foundations, roofing, framing, electrical, siding, downspouts, drainage, demolition, lead paint and asbestos, heating cooling, insulation, concrete, just to name a few skills... also they would need to know all the building codes for where you live plus how to get them and what inspections are necessary and when.

most of the questions I've seen here ask about one or two aspects of garage building.

construction is not hard, it just requires experience and someone to ask when you can't figure something out.

here is what i suggest for you to do.

ask your building inspector if there is anyone in your area doing something like you want to do... go over and offer to 'help out' you'll learn a heck of a lot more doing that than any books you read or internet forum advice.

 

[CNGsaves]

Re: I have no idea - - add garage to rental

Lot of how that "add-on" garage should be built depends on the roofline of existing house. A good way for you to "guesstimate" what actual methods and building techniques SHOULD be used is get a couple quotes from properly trained/licensed contractors. Tying in roof of this add-on garage to existing house with false-roof and valleys to properly carry away the water will likely be WAY BEYOND what your unskilled abilities could accomplish. If you build it poorly and create water traps that create mold / leaks then the landlord and YOU will be on hook to pay for proper construction.

Post up some pics and GJer's can give you better advice that matches your particular circumstances.

 

[Bill LeMieux]

Here's a few shots I took this morning. I'm pretty sure that my place used to be the garage to the attached house but was converted into an efficiency. Like my redneck gutters? The garage will extend 16' out from the house on the side with the air conditioner...

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Bill LeMieux]

I just thought that by exposing and tying into the house rafters then agling the garage roof down until it rests on the new garage wall. Just a simple slope. That shouldn't create any water traps?

 

[buddyboy]

looks like a 4 hip roof.


might consider the addition roof to mimic something like this:

good luck

 

[Bill LeMieux]

I was thinking something simple, like this.

 

[Glenn M.]

Are you going to be moving the air conditioner to another location?

 

[Bill LeMieux]

I would have to move the A/C unit because the window has to go for fire code. There is already a location for it on another wall. I would just have to make the frame fit.

I got to looking around this forum and maybe I'm posting my querys in the wrong place. I'm starting to get the immpression that maybe this is more about "man caves" than folks with building knowhow. I should have looked closer before posting. Sorry 'bout all this but I did appreciate the input...

 

[LB-1911]

I was thinking something simple, like this.

You need to take this photo to the bldg dept / permitting office and share with them your desire to add a 16 foot wide x 24 foot deep addition.

 

[larry_g]

Bill , welcome to the board. A bit of a rough crown on this question and have a bit of a thick skin and ignore some of the dooms day guys. That said you ask a lot of questions that have to have some detailed information before you can get a good answer. There are some highly qualified builders on here who do this for a living so hang in there.

What I see in your sketch is that you plan to hang the roof from the fascia board or rafter tails? Not so good. The question of that wall supporting the a new roof cannot be answered without some detailed information on what is supporting the wall. If as you say that is a converted garage very likely there is not enough footing under that wall, could be, but a lot of garages were thrown up cheap cutting corners. The second thing I see is that you will have no ceiling height if you go out 16". If you pitch 2/12 then you going to loose over 2' in ceiling height. You might want to draw this out to scale to see what you can do.

Good luck
lg
no neat sig line

 

[Slednut]

You may be better off pouring a slab and ordering a steel kit like on this site.

http://garagebuildings.com/?PhoneScript=ppcg&gclid=CIKAxuKFy7gCFRKk4AodKjAAGw

 

[gorilla]

Have you considered hiring a carpenter to help you with this job? He would know what to do and you could help and learn.

 

[RickP]

I would have to move the A/C unit because the window has to go for fire code. There is already a location for it on another wall. I would just have to make the frame fit.

I got to looking around this forum and maybe I'm posting my querys in the wrong place. I'm starting to get the immpression that maybe this is more about "man caves" than folks with building knowhow. I should have looked closer before posting. Sorry 'bout all this but I did appreciate the input...

Bill, I think a lot of members here would be willing to help you with advice. But I think you need to do a little more research first and then ask some specific questions. We can't teach you how to build it, but we can help answer your ?s if you give us enough info. For example, no one could answer your question about the footer until you posted the photos. Now we can tell you "probably not" with your current design. A book on house/garage design from the library or the bookstore might be a good place to start.

You are definitely going to need 2 footers perpendicular to that existing wall. You could pour them yourself, or hire out the concrete work - which I would recommend, especially if you'd like a concrete slab. I've worked in a garage with a gravel floor and it's not a lot of fun...

You also need to research the roof type. As buddyboy suggested, a gable or hip roof would look best, but it also requires some difficult measurements and saw cuts to join to the current roof. A shed roof like you drew just doesn't seem to have enough elevation to be feasible, but if you draw it on some graph paper, maybe you could make it work. I'd be careful of the loads on that existing wall though.

Have you thought about a flat roof? You'd need some specialty roofing materials, but it might be easier for you to learn that skill rather than learning to build the hip rafters. Your choice. Maybe standing seam metal roof panels would be the way to go. Good luck!


Posted from Garagejournal.com App for Android

 

[Bill LeMieux]

First of, thanks for some decent replies. I knew right off that I was putting the cart before the horse here but I just wanted to get an idea what I would be in for and if what I had in mind is even feasable.

The fascia boards and over hang would be removed and the new roof rafters would be secured to the sides of the existing rafters by I guessed two feet or so. They would also be resting on the existing wall of the house, with, I imagined, some modification if needed. I don't know what a 2/12 is but I could guess the roof looses 2 feet of height for every 12 feet of length? If that were the case then the bottom of the rafters would be at 6' and that's enough height to park my car in. Is it going against code to only slope the roof by only 1 foot for the entire width of the slope? That would give me a 7' ceiling on that end.

I haven't got the word yet on whether or not this is even ok but this neighborhood is old with sorta kinda run-down trailers on run down lots. This place is the only house on the block and although it's not to terribly bad, I don't think my millionaire landlord is going to care too much about it as long as it's constructed right and isn't horrible looking. I think he might do this for me because I've been here for three years and told him that I don't plan on moving anytime soon. I think he's grateful that he doesn't have to worry about finding someone to rent the place every few months like he does with the attached house to which this garage used to belong to.

He couldn't make it today but said he would try again tomorrow if I remind him. If he gives the go-ahead then I'll dig a hole and have a look-see at the foundation and snap a few photos. Then maybe some of you "hot shots" (meant sincerely) could tell it to me straight. Thanks again for the replies...

 

[RPH]

First off Bill I like your gumption. But that said....
1) 2-12 pitch = 2" elevation change for every 12" of run.
Run equal length.

2) tooling? What do you have? Takes more than a hammer and saw.

3) labor- it's not just a one man job. Something's require an expereranced crew.

4) time limits. Permit may require you to complete in a timly manner. You will not have forever to do it.

5) engineering knowledge. I know carpenters are not engineers but they do understand how loads are transmitted. And that's only the framing. Many other professions are involved to complete this.

6) you said you are 55 years old. Congrats on that. This is hard and heavy work. Driving a nail no big deal. Driving a thousand nails and your arm doesn't work so well, ever again!

Not meant to stop you but I would do the research first. And build something's first. Small stuff, make the neighbor a nice dog house. Then think 10 times that.

But like Eeyore from Winnie the the pooh. I see no good coming here unless you educate yourself carefully.
Good luck.

 

[ez-duzit]

...I don't know what a 2/12 is...

Everybody has to start somewhere.

To begin, you might consider the ease with which you could go about permit-ing and installing just a flat carport roof. It could be pitched slightly away from the entry end. Lots of choices besides a slab. You could enclose it all later.

 

[RickP]

I don't know what a 2/12 is but I could guess the roof looses 2 feet of height for every 12 feet of length? If that were the case then the bottom of the rafters would be at 6' and that's enough height to park my car in. Is it going against code to only slope the roof by only 1 foot for the entire width of the slope? That would give me a 7' ceiling on that end.

Bill - yes, you are understanding roof pitch correctly. Most people express it in inches, but it's the same thing measured in feet.

The problem with your plan is that normal shingles won't work for a roof with a pitch that low. I think the minimum pitch for shingles is 4/12. You might be able to add rubber underlayment and go with a little less pitch, but I think 2/12 would be pushing the limits of shingles... That's why I think you might want to look at metal roofing. It's a little more $$, but if you could get the owner to spring for it, that might be the way to go. The alternative is a flat roof with a rubber membrane, but that has it's own set of issues.

Obviously, there's a lot involved in building a garage from scratch, and even more involved when you're planning to attach it to an existing house (that used to be a garage!) Personally, I like doing new things in stages - and maybe that would work for you here. Have you considered starting with a carport, as someone else suggested earlier? Because you're in MS, that might be a great way to go, at least initially. The footers would be easier, the floor could be gravel, and all you'd have to build would be the roof. Then you could add the footers and walls later. Just my $0.02.

 

[Jagmandave]

Thanks for that drawing, that helps clear things up a bit. What you're wanting to do is called a lean to or shed garage.

That said, the first question I have is are you going to pull permits and build to code, or just do it? Since you say your location is not a high end neighborhood, do you even need a permit? Some places in Texas they build all kinds of stuff without permits or government hassle.

If not, then I'd say, take some measurements order some lumber, get a concrete contractor on board and go for it.

what kind of weather extremes do you get? Wind? Hail? Snow? Extreme hot or cold? lots of rain?

All those will dictate how much pitch (or how little) you can get away with on your roof.

You could also go a little further up the inside for your rafter attachment and get more pitch, even to the point of going to the top of the current roof and starting there, but that's a lot more work and lumber.

I don't know how well built the current garage/house is, but assuming regular 16" oc stud construction, I think you can do exactly what you're planning.

Your temp region will dictate how deep your footings need to be, the pitch of the roof will dictate the height of the outside walls, and everything else should just fall into place.

Take pics and post regularly once you get started.

 

[Sureshot]

Not to piss you off but adding on to that is a way bigger job than a separate building. If the intent is to save time or money I doubt it could be done saving either, Time for sure is way more and money depends on the design/code/ingenuity factors.

With a separate building you could build it with moving it in mind and a 16'x24' building can be moved by a pickup and flatdeck trailer super easy. I will elaborate if you want.

With the design you drew the low roof height will cause door problems. A standard overhead garage door is 7' tall and you need room for the track and running gear unless you get into a bifold or ??? but all those options complicate the build. FYI a standard walk in door is 80" tall.

I built a 26x26 with 10' walls myself on the ground. I stacked the walls and sheeted them then had a group of friends come one day and we stood the walls and put up the rafters. If I were closer I would come and help.

Just looking again can you drop the floor level(grade) of the garage? It looks flat but show a pic farther out.

What about pulling the window and putting a door where the window is then skip the other man door? You could narrow the garage to 10' then.

What do you plan to use the garage for?

A detached structure is likely to have less code issues as well.

 

[alongfortheride]

I have an idea drink

 

[Clik]

What do you want the garage for? If it's to house that car out front with no tags, do not follow the advice in the above post. You've had enough!

In all seriousness, your State now has a building code in all counties. They may not be enforced now, but when the Tax Assessor comes around and finds a new garage a Pandora's box may be opened.

The existing structure isn't going to pass modern code for a dog house. No insult intended, I've lived in a formerly condemned crack house.

Even if the garage is new and to code, you will now most likely lose the grandfathering of the exising structure. I put a simple lean-to addition on the back of my house and had to update the rest of the house with GFI outlets, additional smoke detectors, additional insulation, etc, etc. And my existing structure was only twelve years old.

You may want to take the advice of a previous poster and go with a metal kit. In my area there's a big difference tax wise if you have a concrete floor. One way around that is to let the dirt dry out. Cover if needed. Roto-till it and rake out all plant debris. Add bagged concrete and till again. Rake and screed the dry concrete/soil smooth. Put garden hose nozzle on, adjust to fine mist and wet until it just starts to puddle. When dry you have a hard surface that looks like a dirt floor that will fool the Tax Assessor.

 

[Danver]

There are plenty of people here who have much more knowledge and experience than I do when it comes to building things so I will leave those comments to them.

I find myself wondering what this garage will be used for and if it makes sense to have it attached to the house. If it is just for parking in or storing things then I guess it would be fine to have it attached. On the other hand if you are going to be working on vehicles or anything else mechanical any of the smells and noises involved are going to become a part of the house as well.

My garage now is attached to my house but I plan to build a separate garage for my workshop when finances allow. I do some work on vintage snowmobiles in my attached garage but I won't do any work that involves gasoline or fire in that garage--that gets done either outside or down the street where I have another free-standing garage on a different lot.

Every once in a while though I will start up a sled in the garage and I can smell the exhaust inside the house for hours.

Just something to think about.
Good luck in your project.

 

[CNGsaves]

If I were landlord, I sure would not allow the lean-to idea as it would further de-value the property.

Best solution so far is combination of advice from BuddyBoy for the roof design (ie this would IMPROVE the property), along with Gorilla who said you should assist a carpenter (thus would have 2 guys to lift walls, etc). While you've got the carpenter, add a window to that "efficiency" (ie former detached garage) in front for some natural light, along with moving A/C to it's own framed in opening (ie NOT a window and upgrade to 240 volt).

Hire out the concrete work after some drawings are worked up.

Tying in roof of addition to the previous structure will be the toughest, thus will force you get a trained carpenter involved. Good luck.

 

[DIC]

How about a shipping container with a carport off the side of it