I just learned something I found very interesting.

[Skooterj]

Did you know that you can get a device called a liquid withdraw valve and use a "wet leg" connection to fill your own 20 lb propane tanks from a larger tank yourself? So if you have a 500 lb tank for garage heating, you can use that tank to refill your grill tank. And much cheaper than getting your grill tank filled or exchanged.

 

[rslaback]

Sure, but if you are doing all that work you could also just plumb in your grill and not worry about tanks at all.

 

[farmall400]

My propane guy will fill my 20 lb tanks if I leave them by the big tanks when he comes to fill.

 

[Skooterj]

Sure, but if you are doing all that work you could also just plumb in your grill and not worry about tanks at all.

I take my 20 lb tank tailgating.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I have the kit for refilling #1 bottles from a #20 bottle.

I use the #1 for a “table top” patio heater.

 

[Skooterj]

I have the kit for refilling #1 bottles from a #20 bottle.

I use the #1 for a “table top” patio heater.

I'm looking at that. Refill your 20 from your 500. Refill your 1 from the 20. Like 50 cents a cylinder.

 

[D45]

So glad I never have to worry about propane tanks

I ran a buried NG line to my grill years ago

 

[Lassen Forge]

Yep, have had a wet tap on one of my tanks ever since we got it. Worth it's weight in gold, and they only charged us like $50 to install it when the tank was put in... Fill both my 100# shop tank and my BBQ/heater 20# tanks from it... Cheap cheap! (Well it was until LPG went through the effing roof!)

There is a downside - wait until you spray yourself with the hose off your wet tap. It's down there where the Methyl Mercaptin odorant accumulates in your tank, and once it gets in your clothes... well, you'll find out sooner or later...

 

[purplezr2]

I have the wet line kit on mine, have had it for 8 years. Worth it it in my opinion.

I fill 10 tanks year, figure there is roughly 4 gallons a propane per tank. Propane was like a 1.09 a gallon. so 4.40 a tank vs 16.99 locally to have a tank filled or swapped. 110 dollar savings a year is worth it to me.

 

[Certified Drunk]

They should sell a kit that lets you fill a 20lb tank from the natural gas line at your own house.

Your insurance company and local fire marshal would not recommend this.

 

[Bucko]

So glad I never have to worry about propane tanks

I ran a buried NG line to my grill years ago

Funny story
My buddy had a natural gas hookup to his grill and pulled the steaks off and brought them inside to check for doneness because it was dark out and got sidetracked. Realized a week later that his grill was still on. The bill was a bit higher that month!

 

[665.0coupe]

Where online are you guys buying the hoses and fittings to fill smaller tanks. My tank already has a wet leg, I just need the hose.

 

[Mr_fixit]

We pay 10.00 to fill a propane grill tank.

 

[RStewart]

We used to pay $9. Then $10. Now $14 to fill gas grill tank. Or is it a cylinder?

 

[Jeff C]

Funny story
My buddy had a natural gas hookup to his grill and pulled the steaks off and brought them inside to check for doneness because it was dark out and got sidetracked. Realized a week later that his grill was still on. The bill was a bit higher that month!

Embarrassing to admit but more than once I’ve gone outside and found my grill with the burners in the on position and the tank empty. It’s made me glad that I never hooked it up to the natural gas.

 

[gmcgeo]

Did you know that you can get a device called a liquid withdraw valve and use a "wet leg" connection to fill your own 20 lb propane tanks from a larger tank yourself? So if you have a 500 lb tank for garage heating, you can use that tank to refill your grill tank. And much cheaper than getting your grill tank filled or exchanged.

the liquid withdraw valve is built on the tanks. all asme tanks 250 gallon and up have them, The liquid withdraw valve is not made to fill your 20# tanks, its put on larger tanks to "withdraw liquid" from the tank if there is an issue so you can empty the tank.

so, can you fill your 20# tank? yes..... but code is you have to fill by weight, so you can not over fill.... some will say BUT IT HAS AN OVER FILL PROTECTION VAVLE. yes it does, but they can fail and over fill your tank. and if you do not know that its over filled, well you just sent liquid into your grill.

the OPD on the tank is not built to use as a stopping device for filling tanks. its used an emergence device in case its over filled. This is why they have scales to weigh the tank when filling. does the employee use the scale? most of the time no.

and this is why they come to me when there 20# tanks are overfilled and we have to evacuate them to a safe level.

do it enough times and the tank will over fill every time because now you just wore out the valve.


So they sell the device to attach to the tank, yes. should it be added.... not really.

ppl do it all the time. they will continue to do it. no one can stop you... im just giving info, you can make your decision on what you want to do

safest way is to run a gas line to the grill from the tank.

 

[finn]

Embarrassing to admit but more than once I’ve gone outside and found my grill with the burners in the on position and the tank empty. It’s made me glad that I never hooked it up to the natural gas.

One way to get the grates nice and clean.

 

[finn]

the liquid withdraw valve is built on the tanks. all asme tanks 250 gallon and up have them, The liquid withdraw valve is not made to fill your 20# tanks, its put on larger tanks to "withdraw liquid" from the tank if there is an issue so you can empty the tank.

so, can you fill your 20# tank? yes..... but code is you have to fill by weight, so you can not over fill.... some will say BUT IT HAS AN OVER FILL PROTECTION VAVLE. yes it does, but they can fail and over fill your tank. and if you do not know that its over filled, well you just sent liquid into your grill.

the OPD on the tank is not built to use as a stopping device for filling tanks. its used an emergence device in case its over filled. This is why they have scales to weigh the tank when filling. does the employee use the scale? most of the time no.

and this is why they come to me when there 20# tanks are overfilled and we have to evacuate them to a safe level.

do it enough times and the tank will over fill every time because now you just wore out the valve.


So they sell the device to attach to the tank, yes. should it be added.... not really.

ppl do it all the time. they will continue to do it. no one can stop you... im just giving info, you can make your decision on what you want to do

safest way is to run a gas line to the grill from the tank.

I asked my distributor about adding provisions to my tank so I could refill my own portable bbq bottles.

They flatly , but politely declined for the reason specified above.

They wanted nothing to do with equipment the could result in an accident.

 

[nadogail]

I have a personalgoal to try to learn at least one new thing every day.

 

[Skooterj]

the liquid withdraw valve is built on the tanks. all asme tanks 250 gallon and up have them, The liquid withdraw valve is not made to fill your 20# tanks, its put on larger tanks to "withdraw liquid" from the tank if there is an issue so you can empty the tank.

so, can you fill your 20# tank? yes..... but code is you have to fill by weight, so you can not over fill.... some will say BUT IT HAS AN OVER FILL PROTECTION VAVLE. yes it does, but they can fail and over fill your tank. and if you do not know that its over filled, well you just sent liquid into your grill.

the OPD on the tank is not built to use as a stopping device for filling tanks. its used an emergence device in case its over filled. This is why they have scales to weigh the tank when filling. does the employee use the scale? most of the time no.

and this is why they come to me when there 20# tanks are overfilled and we have to evacuate them to a safe level.

do it enough times and the tank will over fill every time because now you just wore out the valve.


So they sell the device to attach to the tank, yes. should it be added.... not really.

ppl do it all the time. they will continue to do it. no one can stop you... im just giving info, you can make your decision on what you want to do

safest way is to run a gas line to the grill from the tank.

Okay, so my understanding was that the pressure in your larger tank would force the liquid propane from the bottom of the larger tank into the smaller tank until the pressure difference between the tanks became zero. Since both tanks are made to handle the same liquid propane, which exerts a pressure between 100 - 200 PSI, which both tanks are made to handle, how could you overfill the small tank? If it is a hot day and the large tank is at 200 PSI, it would push liquid into the small tank until it hit 200 PSI and then stop, right? And the small tank is made to handle 200 PSI when full. A 200 PSI tank is not going to push 300 PSI worth of liquid into the small tank. Liquid propane turns instantly to gaseous propane at about 100 PSI pressure, so how would liquid propane flow through a regulator the restricts the pressure to about 10 PSI?

I agree with plumbing my grill at my house, but what about the one on the back of my pickup? Or the heater I take tailgating? Or an old farm tractor converted to propane?

 

[gmcgeo]

Okay, so my understanding was that the pressure in your larger tank would force the liquid propane from the bottom of the larger tank into the smaller tank until the pressure difference between the tanks became zero. Since both tanks are made to handle the same liquid propane, which exerts a pressure between 100 - 200 PSI, which both tanks are made to handle, how could you overfill the small tank? If it is a hot day and the large tank is at 200 PSI, it would push liquid into the small tank until it hit 200 PSI and then stop, right? And the small tank is made to handle 200 PSI when full. A 200 PSI tank is not going to push 300 PSI worth of liquid into the small tank. Liquid propane turns instantly to gaseous propane at about 100 PSI pressure, so how would liquid propane flow through a regulator the restricts the pressure to about 10 PSI?

I agree with plumbing my grill at my house, but what about the one on the back of my pickup? Or the heater I take tailgating? Or an old farm tractor converted to propane?

you are forcing liquid into the tank. not vapor. the valve has a dip tube and the tank can only be filled to 80% of capacity to leave volume for expansion.

The liquid withdraw valve has a tube all the way to the bottom of the tank. if you were just equalizing vapor that's a different story, but you are exchanging liquid. liquid propane turns to vapor from -44 degrees and up.

the colder it is the more liquid that you can stuff in that 20lb tank " meaning you can over fill" the hotter it is the less likely it will be to over fill. so on a cold 20 degree day you can pack more liquid in because its denser.

Liquid propane turns instantly to gaseous propane at about 100 PSI pressure, so how would liquid propane flow through a regulator the restricts the pressure to about 10 PSI? now this. if your tank is overfilled, then what happens is liquid goes through the valve hitting the regulator and destroys the diaphragm on the regulator. if over filled enough the liquid can continue following the line keeping it under -44 degrees not allowing the liquid to flash to vapor and go right to the burners. the regulator that's on a bbq is a single stage setup "meaning it can not stop tank pressure after the diaphragm goes bad." so you get tank pressure to the grill. whether it flashing to vapor or not, it will still be more than 100psi to the grill

you are taking a large tank and trying to stuff into a small tank. the larger will push more then you need every time in the small tank.


Again ppl do it all the time.

 

[nh_yota]

Embarrassing to admit but more than once I’ve gone outside and found my grill with the burners in the on position and the tank empty. It’s made me glad that I never hooked it up to the natural gas.

I've done that a few times over the years.

 

[R6 Racer]

Sounds like gmcgeo is a regular Hank Hill (propane professional)
Perfect... I have a question for a pp.
What about filling the small green propane tanks that are used in "buddy" heaters from a 20# barbecue tank. I have a brass adapter that threads into a 20#er on one side & onto a small green one on the other end. Theory being 20#er is turned off while all threading is done. then open 20# tank till the transfer stops (using sound). Then turn off 20#er & unscrew the little one first.
Since its not collecting liquid from the bottom the vapor should balance out.

Safe or not? Or am I missing something?

Steve

 

[finn]

Sounds like gmcgeo is a regular Hank Hill (propane professional)
Perfect... I have a question for a pp.
What about filling the small green propane tanks that are used in "buddy" heaters from a 20# barbecue tank. I have a brass adapter that threads into a 20#er on one side & onto a small green one on the other end. Theory being 20#er is turned off while all threading is done. then open 20# tank till the transfer stops (using sound). Then turn off 20#er & unscrew the little one first.
Since its not collecting liquid from the bottom the vapor should balance out.

Safe or not? Or am I missing something?

Steve

Those little tanks are disposable. Don’t they say “Do not Refill” on them?

That should answer the question.

 

[TractorJeff]

As far as filling your propane powered tractor.
This was done all the time back in the 50's as many manufacturers built propane powered tractors.
You filled them off from a 250 or 500 gallon tank via the liquid withdrawl tube.
Tractor tank is different from a BBQ tank.
As the tractor engine used liquid withdrawl and vaporized it before going into the mixer.

 

[gmcgeo]

As far as filling your propane powered tractor.
This was done all the time back in the 50's as many manufacturers built propane powered tractors.
You filled them off from a 250 or 500 gallon tank via the liquid withdrawl tube.
Tractor tank is different from a BBQ tank.
As the tractor engine used liquid withdrawl and vaporized it before going into the mixer.

this is what's called an lp Vaporizer, it uses heat to vaporize the liquid into vaper to give your tractor the right amount of BTU that it needs.
im guess its in the millions to run. when transferring liquid to that type of tank it does not matter if you over fill because it transfers the liquid to the vaporizer before it uses it.

but this is a completely different scenario then filling a 20# tank from a larger tank

lots of places use these, some look like a water heater burning fuel onto the liquid super heating the propane to flash into vapor boosting the BTU capability

some like your tractor will be a loop of copper in a box forcing heat on it then it transfers to vapor

 

[gmcgeo]

Sounds like gmcgeo is a regular Hank Hill (propane professional)
Perfect... I have a question for a pp.
What about filling the small green propane tanks that are used in "buddy" heaters from a 20# barbecue tank. I have a brass adapter that threads into a 20#er on one side & onto a small green one on the other end. Theory being 20#er is turned off while all threading is done. then open 20# tank till the transfer stops (using sound). Then turn off 20#er & unscrew the little one first.
Since its not collecting liquid from the bottom the vapor should balance out.

Safe or not? Or am I missing something?

Steve

they are NON refillable. throw a ways. do they make attachments to refill them ? sure. ppl make all kinds of stupid things that should have never been invented

these small 1# tanks have a small pressure relief valve and if you over fill them them and liquid contacts it then it can freeze it and release into the area. liquid when hitting the air expands 270 times itself...... so BOOM id rather have a vaper flash to be honest at least i would MAYBE survive it. liquid lighting off,, well not much chance of getting away from that


so, not safe. i do not recommend do it.

 

[scofo]

My propane guy will fill my 20 lb tanks if I leave them by the big tanks when he comes to fill.

I asked the nice ladies at Action propane if I could have the delivery guy do this and was told no. Residential deliveries are by the gallon and portable tanks by weight. Why they wouldn't do both with truck, IDK. That's too bad, I would really like that service but I'm sure it's a Texas state law or some such thing?

 

[gmcgeo]

I asked the nice ladies at Action propane if I could have the delivery guy do this and was told no. Residential deliveries are by the gallon and portable tanks by weight. Why they wouldn't do both with truck, IDK. That's too bad, I would really like that service but I'm sure it's a Texas state law or some such thing?

Bulk trucks have an adapter that the old school drivers knew how to use properly, but the facts are a bulk truck pushes 20 -50 gallon a min.

its easy to over fill a 20# tank with a bulk propane truck. most companies will not fill them with a bulk truck since you have to fill through the valve.

if it was a forklift tank, they have acme valve built to handle the load.

 

[scofo]

20-50gpm! Damn, I could see how that would make precision a little difficult. Like trying to shut of the gasoline pump exactly to the penny when it $3 a gallon

 

[gmcgeo]

bulk trucks are made to fill fast, thats why there are pumping stations for the small tanks.

 

[R6 Racer]

they are NON refillable. throw a ways. do they make attachments to refill them ? sure. ppl make all kinds of stupid things that should have never been invented

these small 1# tanks have a small pressure relief valve and if you over fill them them and liquid contacts it then it can freeze it and release into the area. liquid when hitting the air expands 270 times itself...... so BOOM id rather have a vaper flash to be honest at least i would MAYBE survive it. liquid lighting off,, well not much chance of getting away from that


so, not safe. i do not recommend do it.

Still confused...
I saw before that the ability to overfill was due to the feed coming from the bottom of a large tank. Drawing the liquid from the bottom of that large tank. The vapor is at the top Making the only way for the 20 lb to 1 lb transfer dangerous if while filling you had the 20 lb tank upside down, Right? Im not trying to be a **** I am just trying to get my head around things using common sense, cause that's all I have.

And if its so dangerous how is it then that they can sell an adapter at all? Lots of different styles are available for sale all over the place.

Propane Bottle Refill Valve

Amazing deals on this Propane Bottle Refill Valve at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

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Gas One Propane Refill Adapter for 1lb Propane Tanks & Fits 20lb Propane Tank QCC/Propane Refill/Great for rv Propane Adapter refills/1lb Propane Adapter : Amazon.ca: Sports & Outdoors

Find products from GASONE at low prices. Shop online for barbecues, mowers, garden tools, generators, snow blowers and more at Amazon.ca

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Amazon.ca

Steve

 

[like2wheel]

Still confused...
I saw before that the ability to overfill was due to the feed coming from the bottom of a large tank. Drawing the liquid from the bottom of that large tank. The vapor is at the top Making the only way for the 20 lb to 1 lb transfer dangerous if while filling you had the 20 lb tank upside down, Right? Im not trying to be a **** I am just trying to get my head around things using common sense, cause that's all I have.

And if its so dangerous how is it then that they can sell an adapter at all? Lots of different styles are available for sale all over the place.

Propane Bottle Refill Valve

Amazing deals on this Propane Bottle Refill Valve at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Gas One Propane Refill Adapter for 1lb Propane Tanks & Fits 20lb Propane Tank QCC/Propane Refill/Great for rv Propane Adapter refills/1lb Propane Adapter : Amazon.ca: Sports & Outdoors

Find products from GASONE at low prices. Shop online for barbecues, mowers, garden tools, generators, snow blowers and more at Amazon.ca

www.amazon.ca

Amazon.ca

Steve

If you refill your 1lb cylinder with vapor only from the 20lb tank, you will be severely disappointed with the results of your efforts. Think about a tank that you shake & nothing is felt sloshing around. That's how much time you would get out of it.

When people use those cheater adapters, they invert the 20lb tank to send liquid to the tank being filled.

 

[nadogail]

Just as they sell “Cheater” cords so knowledgeable people can “work around” the safety precautions built into many things. The makers of Propane tanks are attempting to protect Idiots from themselves. Darwin will eventually deal with the worst of them.

 

[Bert_]

Good luck overfilled a grill tank without a pump. I've filled them from the liquid valve on a 500 or 1000gal tank before. Couldn't get them over 1/2 -2/3 full. Works fine just fill it a little more often.

Where I get propane for they fill ALL the grill tanks with the truck.

 

[gmcgeo]

they make cigarettes', ppl buy them? they make alot of things that are very dangerous to the public and still sell it.

And if its so dangerous how is it then that they can sell an adapter at all? Lots of different styles are available for sale all over the place.

The manufacture of the 1lb canisters have a reason why they say DO NOT REFILL. if you want to buy these products and use them, well you can make your own decisions.

Good luck overfilled a grill tank without a pump. I've filled them from the liquid valve on a 500 or 1000gal tank before. Couldn't get them over 1/2 -2/3 full. Works fine just fill it a little more often.

Where I get propane for they fill ALL the grill tanks with the truck.

it was prob in the summer time, where it was 70 deg plus out side? the vapor will condense but if its warm you wont be able to put alot in.
the biggest issue if you refill your own tanks is if the tank has rust and blows a hole in it. you will see that a lot of tanks that are purchased have a plastic decal wrap, thats the first place it rusts out and ppl do not notice. then the bottom of the tank rusts out.

as for the ppl who fill from a bulk truck, you will notice that in time they will pull back and not allow it soon, some trucks that are pre 2015 are built with a pto pump that can bring rpms down to fill smaller tanks, however the newer truck are going away with it.

 

[CombatNinja]

I take my 20 lb tank tailgating.

Hell of a tailgate. Is that not a bit of overkill? I have a little 5-pounder for this purpose and it is so much easier to handle. Of course, I came to acquire this through some overloading/boondock camping where every piece of gear must be scrutinized for weight and space.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Hell of a tailgate. Is that not a bit of overkill? I have a little 5-pounder for this purpose and it is so much easier to handle. Of course, I came to acquire this through some overloading/boondock camping where every piece of gear must be scrutinized for weight and space.

Not really. I have a 20lb cylinder on the tongue of my car trailer. No need to carry small bottles or worry about running out.

Some people cook seriously awesome stuff when they tailgate, not just hamburgers, hot dogs and brats.

 

[yatg]

Have this flame king refiller and a couple of bottles.

1lb Refillable Cylinder + Kit 16.4 oz., Green Model #: YSN1LBKT - Flame King

FAST REFILL KIT – Includes 1LB cylinder, cylinder cap, 2mm (5/64″) Allen Key, refill adapter device, and refill stand; REFILL STAND can hold 20LB tanks REDUCE WASTE – Keep disposable propane tanks out of the environment by using Flame King 1LB refillable cylinders SAFE TO USE – Flame King...

flameking.com

When you fill them, there's a port on the 1# bottle you open with a hex key so it will vent.

 

[gmcgeo]

That's interesting they are clamming they are certified by DOT to refill these and transport.
I see they have a 12 year DOT cert from a UL1769 valve. never seen this before. so these would need a visual inspection and recertified after 12 years...... that being said technically you would be refilling them illegally after the 12 years of manufacture date. thats pretty neat they made one of these.