I learn something new from time-to-time Romex wire.

[woody 73]

I think I left some of you with my stories about the electrician that I hired some time back. anyhow he could talk up a storm as he was a master of everything. Well one day I told him how I was finding some nice deals at garage and flea type places for used electrical wire. Talk soon was followed by telling him I passed up buying some used Romex wire that I did not buy because I did not think I would have much need for it.

Holy **** the sheer look of horror on his face made me do a double take; I thought he was going to explode right there on the spot as he said, "Never under any circumstances ever buy that wire used under any conditions period". So, I said OK why not? Well, he gave me a lecture on water getting into the cable and having the paper inside soak it all up and causing electrical fires and maybe causing electrocution and death.

Not being an electrical person first I ever heard of this. So, I had to google this one and he had a good point, do they teach young electricians this in school? Is this common knowledge among all electricians? Have any of you ever heard of this? Do any of you buy used Romex wire to use?

I take it some wire must be used outside that is special made for the weather outside, he was only talking about Romex that was used inside a dry house. I don't know, sometimes a house has a leaky roof that must cause a lot of problems for the electricians.

The link I found talking about it:

Romex Wet Inside Outer Insulation!? Problem?

I've never run across this before. Can anyone tell me if it's normal or at least if it's something to be concerned with? The inside of this Romex wire is wet. The paper insulation around the bare ground wire is soaking wet. How the heck can this happen? Do I have to pull it all and rewire?

forums.mikeholt.com

 

[Jim greengo]

Yep,that's general practice to remove romex that's been exposed to water.

 

[woody 73]

Jim Hi, I do not know if the following example that I just found on CL is a good deal or not; but the question still remains if you found a very good deal on used bundle of wire (plastic bag is torn open) would you keep walking and avoid it at all costs?

Link I just found on CL:

#14-3 Romex with ground wire / 205 ft - general for sale - by owner - craigslist

New, 215ft of #14-3 Romex with ground wire. (205ft) asking $99.00 Call/Text No emails.

toledo.craigslist.org

 

[woody 73]

I know my electrical guy would not even take it if it was dirt cheap, at least that is what he was telling me!

 

[nadogail]

Just get the NMB for damp locations. Avoid the old stuff with cloth or paper insulation.

Many times wire advertised at really cheap prices is “stolen property”.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Just get the NMB for damp locations. Avoid the old stuff with cloth or paper insulation

NMB is for dry locations only, not damp or wet. It still has a paper filler.
UFB is for damp and wet locations as well as dry locations.

 

[nadogail]

NMB is for dry locations only, not damp or wet. It still has a paper filler.
UFB is for damp and wet locations as well as dry locations.

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[rlitman]

NMB is for dry locations only, not damp or wet. It still has a paper filler.
UFB is for damp and wet locations as well as dry locations.

Or there's NMC, which is for damp and wet locations.

 

[mike93lx]

Jim Hi, I do not know if the following example that I just found on CL is a good deal or not; but the question still remains if you found a very good deal on used bundle of wire (plastic bag is torn open) would you keep walking and avoid it at all costs?

Link I just found on CL:

#14-3 Romex with ground wire / 205 ft - general for sale - by owner - craigslist

New, 215ft of #14-3 Romex with ground wire. (205ft) asking $99.00 Call/Text No emails.

toledo.craigslist.org

I'd have no problem buying wire like that if the price is good and there are no signs of damage.

That's not used wire, though. It's just an open package

 

[Norcal]

Or there's NMC, which is for damp and wet locations.

Where are you going to find NMC?

 

[dcg9381]

Interesting.. I've not bought "2nd hand" Romex, but I've seen quite a few good deals on it around here. I assume some of them are "fell off a truck" type things - still in original rolls. Good to know to watch out for water exposure.

 

[Buckaroo5]

If you are buying Romex from a private party that is still packaged, 99% probability it is stolen. Big Box stores have it all locked up now. Very sad.....

 

[exranger06]

There's a difference between NM and NM-b. Old Romex was NM, and was later replaced by NM-b. It has a different temperature rating. Old NM is obsolete and it would be against code to use it for new installations. So I would double check and see which type it is before considering buying/using it. If it's wire that's never been used/installed and appears to be in good shape, I'd use it. If it's wire that was installed before, I wouldn't use it unless I was the one who removed it.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Old Romex was NM, and was later replaced by NM-b. It has a different temperature rating.

Old NM and NM-b still have the overall same rating (60C).
The only difference is NM-b has a 90C rating for it's individual conductors, and can be used where 90C insulation is required.

 

[mike93lx]

There's a difference between NM and NM-b. Old Romex was NM, and was later replaced by NM-b. It has a different temperature rating. Old NM is obsolete and it would be against code to use it for new installations. So I would double check and see which type it is before considering buying/using it. If it's wire that's never been used/installed and appears to be in good shape, I'd use it. If it's wire that was installed before, I wouldn't use it unless I was the one who removed it.

NM has been out of use for a long, long time.

 

[grounded-b]

I think I left some of you with my stories about the electrician that I hired some time back. anyhow he could talk up a storm as he was a master of everything. Well one day I told him how I was finding some nice deals at garage and flea type places for used electrical wire. Talk soon was followed by telling him I passed up buying some used Romex wire that I did not buy because I did not think I would have much need for it.

Holy **** the sheer look of horror on his face made me do a double take; I thought he was going to explode right there on the spot as he said, "Never under any circumstances ever buy that wire used under any conditions period". So, I said OK why not? Well, he gave me a lecture on water getting into the cable and having the paper inside soak it all up and causing electrical fires and maybe causing electrocution and death.

Not being an electrical person first I ever heard of this. So, I had to google this one and he had a good point, do they teach young electricians this in school? Is this common knowledge among all electricians? Have any of you ever heard of this? Do any of you buy used Romex wire to use?

I take it some wire must be used outside that is special made for the weather outside, he was only talking about Romex that was used inside a dry house. I don't know, sometimes a house has a leaky roof that must cause a lot of problems for the electricians.

The link I found talking about it:

Romex Wet Inside Outer Insulation!? Problem?

I've never run across this before. Can anyone tell me if it's normal or at least if it's something to be concerned with? The inside of this Romex wire is wet. The paper insulation around the bare ground wire is soaking wet. How the heck can this happen? Do I have to pull it all and rewire?

forums.mikeholt.com

The link you provided was highlighted regarding a section on "medium voltage" cable. This is wire used above 600V and up to 100,000V. for those cables, yes, moisture can be a big problem. Maybe even causing death. But a little dampness of the paper inside NMB cable will not cause fires or death. The actual wire beneath the paper is insulated to 300V.

 

[SlappyWhite]

Stupid question.... in the US does modern NM cable still have "paper" inside it, or at least some flavours? This thread sounds like it does?

Here, what we call NMSC does not, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6... gauge--all no paper that I have seen for modern cables. Old 60C stuff did. Armoured cable does here.
***
As for using old cables I got burned once so to speak. When I did my own house my buddy had some off cuts a few metres long that I used when I needed some short pieces to save the rolls. One of those lengths kept tripping a CAFI (AFCI) breaker. Tracked it down to the length that was at fault and it was one of the off cuts. It was leaking current hot to ground, not enough to trip a regular breaker but enough to trip the arc fault. No paper of course.

 

[mike93lx]

Stupid question.... in the US does modern NM cable still have "paper" inside it, or at least some flavours? This thread sounds like it does?

Here, what we call NMSC does not, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6... gauge--all no paper that I have seen for modern cables. Old 60C stuff did. Armoured cable does here.
***
As for using old cables I got burned once so to speak. When I did my own house my buddy had some off cuts a few metres long that I used when I needed some short pieces to save the rolls. One of those lengths kept tripping a CAFI (AFCI) breaker. Tracked it down to the length that was at fault and it was one of the off cuts. It was leaking current hot to ground, not enough to trip a regular breaker but enough to trip the arc fault. No paper of course.

Yes, nm-b has paper in it. And an uninsulated ground

 

[alfredeneuman]

I think I had a piece of NMC years ago, pulled out during a demo. It was loosely packed like NM, but it had saran wrap like plastic instead of the paper wrap.
I can't remember whether the ground was insulated or not.

 

[sparky 1971]

I think I had a piece of NMC years ago, pulled out during a demo. It was loosely packed like NM, but it had saran wrap like plastic instead of the paper wrap.
I can't remember whether the ground was insulated or not.

Based on that description, I may have had some a couple months ago. It was supposed to be 12/2 NMB. It looked like typical 12/2 with the yellow jacket, but the conductors were red and I think blue, wrapped in plastic and had a bare ground. It also seemed like the conductors were stiffer than what #12 solid normally is, but wasn't as stiff as #10 solid. I chalked it up to the last roll built on a Friday and returned it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The link you provided was highlighted regarding a section on "medium voltage" cable. This is wire used above 600V and up to 100,000V. for those cables, yes, moisture can be a big problem. Maybe even causing death. But a little dampness of the paper inside NMB cable will not cause fires or death. The actual wire beneath the paper is insulated to 300V.

All the NM-b ive seen has been rated for 600v

 

[Norcal]

All the NM-b ive seen has been rated for 600v

There was a a electrician on MH telling that supermarkets in Massachusetts were wired w/NM cable even using 12/3 for 480V.

 

[billconner]

Yes, nm-b has paper in it. And an uninsulated ground

I'm actually installing NM-B today. Some reused (I removed a month or so ago), some old I bought but never used, and some new. Older seems to have 2 strips of paper - around ground and around all the conductors - and newer just one strip - around ground.

 

[sparky 1971]

I'm actually installing NM-B today. Some reused (I removed a month or so ago), some old I bought but never used, and some new. Older seems to have 2 strips of paper - around ground and around all the conductors - and newer just one strip - around ground.

It might be from a different manufacturer, but everything I've used recently (2,000' of 12/2, 3250' of 14/2, 750' of 14/3, 250' of 12/3 on one project with more to go) has had paper wrapped around everything. It does seem to be thinner paper and 75+% of the time slides off with the jacket so it's really not all that noticeable

 

[rharman]

If you are buying Romex from a private party that is still packaged, 99% probability it is stolen. Big Box stores have it all locked up now. Very sad.....

I was in Home Depot recently to get some 12-2 Romex. Only needed about 10'. At the beginning of the aisle, a gal up on a ladder asks if I need any help. I replied no. She jokingly said "I'm only going to offer one time". I told her "I only need to say no one time" and we laughed.

Well, I get to the coils of Romex and they are locked up! Dang! I had to go back to the gal and tell her that, yes, I need some help as I wasn't expecting Romex to be in a locked vault. We both had another good laugh.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was in Home Depot recently to get some 12-2 Romex. Only needed about 10'. At the beginning of the aisle, a gal up on a ladder asks if I need any help. I replied no. She jokingly said "I'm only going to offer one time". I told her "I only need to say no one time" and we laughed.

Well, I get to the coils of Romex and they are locked up! Dang! I had to go back to the gal and tell her that, yes, I need some help as I wasn't expecting Romex to be in a locked vault. We both had another good laugh.

Yeah i was in home depot few weeks ago… needed some spray paint… was expecting id need to ask for help to get the cage unlocked…. Nope walked right up and the doors are open… then i go to the electrical wire aisle and all the wire is locked down like fort knox….

Guess the gang bangers have moved on from sealing spray paint for tagging…