I need a VFD, suggestions?

[TheEquineFencer]

I had a VFD in the old shop before it burned down. I need a new one. I'm looking suggestions for a NEW one. I'm going to be running a BP mill and a LeBlonde lathe off it. To be honest, with the old one, I seldom used the VFD for anything other than it's ability to give me 3 Phase from 1 Phase. The one I was going to get was a Siemens MicroMaster with a brake. I'm looking a cheap "Plug and Play" option. I don't have time to be shopping E-bay, I want to just pull the trigger and order one.

 

[Strouty]

HP of machines is required.

 

[cybrdyke]

There's probably a Siemens and an Allen Bradley electrical distributor near you. They probably have one in stock, too.
CD

 

[_Dock_]

Automation direct have good mid range drives and a reasonable price point, these will be cheaper than AB or seimens drives.

As said above we would need voltage requirements and HP's of the two motors you plan on using this on if you are looking for reccomendations on which one to pick.

Any VFD will not have a brake.... REAL brakes are on the motor not in the VFD, you can set your accel and decel times to stop within a certain amount of seconds, if you're referring to a braking resistor than yes you can get one of those for a drive but I cant think of any scenario where you would need one on a mill or a lathe. The brake on the motor can be controlled by the VFD as long as it has the proper aux I/O.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives

 

[CoopVA]

I have a Teco from Dealers Electric. I use it for both my drill press and mill. I like it and the price was good.

http://dealerselectric.com


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[DonPowers]

Why not just put in a phase converter if you aren't using it to control the speed?

Here are a few, many more out there or you could build a rotary converter.

http://www.northamericaphaseconverters.com/shop/category/pro-line-rotary-phase-converters/

http://www.phaseconverter.com/

http://www.nojolt.com/how-to-build-a-rotary-phase-converter.shtml

 

[WhoWhatNow]

Build a phase converter or get a TECO from Dealers Electric. I have a TECO on my BP and it works great. Their FM and N3 series great units. DE ships fast and has the best prices I have been able to find.

 

[bullnerd]

From all the years of reading about VFD's , TECO is the most mentioned name by far.

Dealers is right here in NJ also, nothing but good reviews from them, and their website is really easy to navigate and find what you want.

Good luck.

 

[Norcal]

I use a TECO NEMA 4X model for a drill press, & a couple of GE/Fuji drives on some 200 volt machines, grinder/ wood shaper, all 3 are 240V models, but GFCI's do not like VFD's, so in my case it's not a problem.

For motors 1 HP and smaller 120 volt input drives are available, single phase input drives are reasonably priced for motors up to 3 HP with no derating, above that drives will have to be derated 50%, for example 5 HP motor = 10 HP drive, assuming the phase loss protection can be bypassed.


2 of the 3 drives came through Dealers, other one came from a classified from another forum.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

My plan is to input 240v (1PH) to a single VFD and output 240v (3PH) to both machines.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Build a phase converter or get a TECO from Dealers Electric. I have a TECO on my BP and it works great. Their FM and N3 series great units. DE ships fast and has the best prices I have been able to find.

Building something is not really an option, I've been averaging around 75 hours a week at my regular job 5-6 days a week and Sunday is my only day to get anything done if I have time.

What I want to do is like I did with the other lathes and BP mill I had. Mount the VFD next to my main panel, feed it from my main panel, then flex out of the VFD to a conduit with the VFD (3) Ph power and feed all the machines down the line with it.

 

[CoopVA]

This is what I did. Mounted the VFD I between the two machines its feeding and put a plug on both machines. Have the switch plugged into an outlet, then wired to the VFD.





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[A_Pmech]

Buy two VFD's. One for each machine.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Buy two VFD's. One for each machine.

Why buy two? I used one before for both machines. I could run both at one time if I wanted to and did sometimes. Granted it was a little overkill for what the VFD was rated. The one I had before was rated for (1) Ph input (3) Ph output at 5 HP.

 

[Norcal]

When I see VFD's installed in photos posted on various forums, why do all of them have to be a hacked up install, in the same category as connecting a receptacle & driving a couple of nails through the yoke to mount it? NEMA type 1 drives need a properly sized enclosure.


I am casting a very wide net & not trying to single anyone out in particular.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I agree with you. That's why I want to put the VFD near my panel box and run everything in EMT with the proper (3) Ph rated receptacles. I want a good clean looking installation.

 

[CoopVA]

When I see VFD's installed in photos posted on various forums, why do all of them have to be a hacked up install, in the same category as connecting a receptacle & driving a couple of nails through the yoke to mount it? NEMA type 1 drives need a properly sized enclosure.





I am casting a very wide net & not trying to single anyone out in particular.

Because I don't have the money for the enclosure or controls to do it nice and neat... What I did works, it's safe and does the job. I've seen worse... LOL...


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[Norcal]

Because I don't have the money for the enclosure or controls to do it nice and neat... What I did works, it's safe and does the job. I've seen worse... LOL...


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When dealing with electricity, do it right or don't do it all. The receptacle nailed to a stud through it's yoke works too....

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Because I don't have the money for the enclosure or controls to do it nice and neat... What I did works, it's safe and does the job. I've seen worse... LOL...


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I thought what you did looked pretty good. That's better than the way I did my first VFD install. Heck it was just wire nutted together in the shop I used to rent.

 

[CoopVA]

When dealing with electricity, do it right or don't do it all. The receptacle nailed to a stud through it's yoke works too....

My set up is far from being a receptacle nailed to a wall through its yoke NorCal. If you got a couple hundred dollars for a12x10x8 Hoffman box with a back panel in it and a remote keypad to give me, I'll take it... Until then, I'll do the best I can do with what I have to do what I need to do.

Like I said, what I did is safe and it works.


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[CoopVA]

I thought what you did looked pretty good. That's better than the way I did my first VFD install. Heck it was just wire nutted together in the shop I used to rent.

Thanks. I appreciate it.


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[TheEquineFencer]

My set up is far from being a receptacle nailed to a wall through its yoke NorCal. If you got a couple hundred dollars for a12x10x8 Hoffman box with a back panel in it and a remote keypad to give me, I'll take it... Until then, I'll do the best I can do with what I have to do what I need to do.

Like I said, what I did is safe and it works.


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[damienga15de]

This looked to be a nice unit I seen last week, it was wired appallingly bad though and set up completely wrong for the motor it was on. I had to leave it as is as we were doing inspection only felt bad. I really liked the fact that I could lock out tag out on the face of this drive.

I fitted a really nice one last month, Leroy somer ip 66 too no pictures of the unit apart from the control wiring.

 

[slow]

I use telemecanique drives both a 7.5 and 10 hp to drive 5 and 7.5 hp fans at the old shop (vehicle dyno cooling and exhaust fans) worked great but expensive.

I have 7 of them in the new setup.

Ryan

 

[damienga15de]

Outside of Leroy somer drive,

 

[TheEquineFencer]

LOL, to give you an idea of how my days go, I got home at 10:45 last night and stopped in front of the shop, did my paperwork and woke up around 3am. That was the end of my 17-1/4 hour day. Now I'm in the shop looking at VFD info again. Someone suggested me buying two VFD's instead of one and I thought that wasn't a good idea, but after thinking about it, that might not be bad idea if I can get two smaller ones for about the same price. Then I could run a 240V circuit around the wall for other 240V (1) Ph things. Does anyone have a P/N for and pricing on a new VFD for the BP they like or are using and where to buy it? I'll need to get some better pictures of the Lathe motor.

 

[DpSyChO]

Teco or Hitachi are two good options.
This my not be the lowest price but one I've had in my watch list for a while from when I was shopping for a 2hp drive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121278599687?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 

[exmaxima1]

There's probably a Siemens and an Allen Bradley electrical distributor near you. They probably have one in stock, too.
CD

Local industrial supplier will likely not qualify as "cheap plug and play"---Internet will be far cheaper.

 

[PT Doc]

I am happy with my Kbac drive that controls my 3 hp motor. I like the rotational knob that controls the speed rather than buttons.

Check out a guy on YouTube, shadon hkw. He does a lot of automation work in the industrial world and highly recommends a vfd brand. Can't remember off the top of my head.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I am happy with my Kbac drive that controls my 3 hp motor. I like the rotational knob that controls the speed rather than buttons.

Check out a guy on YouTube, shadon hkw. He does a lot of automation work in the industrial world and highly recommends a vfd brand. Can't remember off the top of my head.

I wished I had more time to sit and watch his videos, the one I started with the VFD's was getting pretty good. Great post, thanks.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Automation direct have good mid range drives and a reasonable price point, these will be cheaper than AB or seimens drives.

As said above we would need voltage requirements and HP's of the two motors you plan on using this on if you are looking for reccomendations on which one to pick.

Any VFD will not have a brake.... REAL brakes are on the motor not in the VFD, you can set your accel and decel times to stop within a certain amount of seconds, if you're referring to a braking resistor than yes you can get one of those for a drive but I cant think of any scenario where you would need one on a mill or a lathe. The brake on the motor can be controlled by the VFD as long as it has the proper aux I/O.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Drives

What would happen at time with the previous Siemens Micromaster, without a braking resistor, if you changed the Hz on the BP with it running too fast , meaning going from say 60hz to 30 Hz, on the drive, it would shut down the drive because the BP mill's motor then would become a "generator" and feed back to the VFD sort of like reverse power in a regular generator.

 

[_Dock_]

If you purchase one of the drives that I linked there will be a setting for "Decel Time"... Set the decel time to 5-10 seconds, no mater how fast you turn the potentiometer on the drive, the drive will decel to the new HZ setting in that time frame, this would keep the drive bus from sensing an over current.

Maybe you have some sort of special machining operation going on but I've never heard anyone needing to change speeds on a tool that dramatically so I wouldn't see the added time as being an issue?

Some of the other cheaper drives may have this setting. Download the manual for the one you pick before you but it and look for a decel time in the parameters list.

 

[_Dock_]

Just for clarity for others that may read this thread.

A motor brake and a braking resistor are two completely different things.

A motor brake is a electromechanical device mounted to the motor output shaft to stop the rotation of the motor simultaneously when power is removed, either at a normal braking speed or at a fast acting speed. These are used when your process dictates the need to stop the motor output shaft at a certain interval.

A braking resistor is an electrical device that is wired to the VFD, it is essentially a toaster oven that dissipates excess electrical energy through heat... These are used when the motor has the potential to regen (become a generator) when the load inertia overtakes the output torque of the motor/gearbox. Mainly you will only see these in a lifting/hoisting application when you are lowering a heavy load.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Just for clarity for others that may read this thread.

A motor brake and a braking resistor are two completely different things.

A motor brake is a electromechanical device mounted to the motor output shaft to stop the rotation of the motor simultaneously when power is removed, either at a normal braking speed or at a fast acting speed. These are used when your process dictates the need to stop the motor output shaft at a certain interval.

A braking resistor is an electrical device that is wired to the VFD, it is essentially a toaster oven that dissipates excess electrical energy through heat... These are used when the motor has the potential to regen (become a generator) when the load inertia overtakes the output torque of the motor/gearbox. Mainly you will only see these in a lifting/hoisting application when you are lowering a heavy load.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I have a Teco from Dealers Electric. I use it for both my drill press and mill. I like it and the price was good.

http://dealerselectric.com


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I just ordered Two TECO's from them. One for the lathe, one for the BP mill. Both are NEMA 1 rated.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Buy two VFD's. One for each machine.

Thanks, that's what I did. After thinking about it, it really seemed to make sense.