I need help laying out where stuff goes.

[fflintstone]

Next month I will be putting a concrete floor in my 32 x 48 pole barn. After the concrete cures I will be setting up my shop in the space. I would like to know if the are any guidelines as to how to layout all my shop tools to work most efficiently. I mainly wrench on/restore/modify jeeps, weld and fabricate stuff. Since I do minimal woodworking I plan on putting all my woodworking stuff on rollers. I want to keep the welding, bench grinders and abrasive cutter away from the compressor and stuff like that. I want to keep the plasma cutter close to the welding but away from the grinding. I need to keep the welding and cutting away from the sawdust and paint thinner.
I would real like to plan this all out before I have to run wiring and air lines and such.
Are there any layout plans out there I can start with?

 

[sstruckguy]

As a matter of fact there is:

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

Great tool. I have used it on my last couple of shops, and also a new (previous) Toyota dealership build

 

[fflintstone]

As a matter of fact there is:

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

Great tool. I have used it on my last couple of shops, and also a new (previous) Toyota dealership build

Thanks, I have looked at the grizzly site and it has a lot of tools in the library, but they don’t have welders or air compressors in the library, or much in the way of metal fab tools. I thought the “shop dog” and “barn cat” where hilarious though.
Unfortunately it doesn’t tell you WHERE to put the tools. I am looking for guidelines as to WHERE to put stuff for the most efficient workflow. I must not be looking in the right place, but I am not finding this info on the Internet, YET.

 

[Grumpy365]

TO Many Unknown Variables.

How many Jeeps do you work on at a time?
Do you have any finished projects you keep inside?
Are you putting in a lift?
How much workbench space are you planning?
Are you putting in a TV, computer or sitting area?
etc.

 

[Gary S]

Put your stuff where it works for you. It won't do any good to put things where the rest of us want them because we won't be using them.

 

[fflintstone]

TO Many Unknown Variables.

How many Jeeps do you work on at a time?
Do you have any finished projects you keep inside?
Are you putting in a lift?
How much workbench space are you planning?
Are you putting in a TV, computer or sitting area?
etc.

hopefully only one project at a time, but repairs do crop up.
untill a lean to is added to the side of the barn(no projects till then) my tractor/loader/backhoe will be parked in the "work area" and 2 motorcyles and a quad will have to be shoved somewhere as well.

I will be making a 8x10 office/mancave w/sleeping loft in the corner opposite the entry door.
unfortunatly the main(currently only) door is an approx 11' x 11' barn slider located at the very corner of the 32' gable end wall.

I have one 12' fixed and one 10' roling stainless resturant counter I can use as work benches. I also have a 21" x 10+' x 4" thick slab of wood I was going to make a wood bench out of, along with a 3' x 6' water bath cutting table.

the barn was built with 12' high wood sided walls, has a dirt floor and only one 12-2 wire feeding power to it right now. the previous owner housed tractors and cattle in it. fortunatly for me he ran a water hydrant out there so I can have a sink although a legal drain would be a problem.
I have used it for storage and a woodshop while I built my "retirement" house.
unfortunatly due to domestic auto engineering being shiped to india, it is now my only home and I am not prepared to do real work out in the barn.

I will not currently be adding a lift. at one time I thought about adding a service pit but really dont think it is worh the hassle.

 

[fflintstone]

anybody know of a resorce?

 

[cowboy73]

What sort of stuff do you plan on putting in there? Automotive? Woodworking? I have an old book somewhere on placing woodworking tools but not automotive type stuff.

 

[fflintstone]

What sort of stuff do you plan on putting in there? Automotive? Woodworking? I have an old book somewhere on placing woodworking tools but not automotive type stuff.

Although I have a huge fence for my table saw, less than 10% of my work is woodworking, mainly automotive and welding/fab

My sum total of shop woodworking tools are the table saw/router table, a planer, joiner, dust collector (never hooked up) scroll saw (seldom used) and one of my band saws has a table for vertical cutting that I could use but never have.

There is a lot of woodworking stuff on the web but I am finding NOTHING for an auto/fab shop

 

[Ocho]

Think about what you will be doing the most of. Set your shop up so it can be changed as your needs change. Our shop constantly "evolves" as our tools and techniques change.

The most efficient way will be what makes your most used tools most accessible. That being said, if you think about it, most repair and maintenance work will be done on the front half of the car. Engine, front brakes, steering, shocks/struts, etc are all on the front half of the car so set up your workspace accordingly.

Our technicians all have a BIG toolbox and a HEAVY workbench directly in front of the workspace, leaving enough room for rolling carts, AC machines, etc. They also have air and power on the wall behind the workbench. If you have the space, leave enough room on the sides of the vehicle area so you can roll your toolbox around to where you are working on the vehicle. A small service cart works well if your toolbox is too big or your space too small.

Our grinding/welding area is separate from the repair area. We don't do any finish painting, but whenever we need to rattle can something we do that in the fab area. Our volatiles (including dirty shop rags) are all stored in cabinets or containers rated for that specific purpose.

If your woodworking stuff is going to be used sparingly and on rollers, it can be anywhere out of the way.

Hope that at least gives you some ideas.

 

[mdbeck1]

First off the people on this web site will probably give you some pretty good ideas on how to set up your shop if you ask. There are pros and cons to each layout. What is going to work for you is not the same as what works for me. A rough layout of the shop area would help (a hand drawn sketch works but try to get it to scale). Also a list of the major equipment would be of use.

I don't know of any resources on the web on where to place your equipment but there are resources to assist you in drawing it out. I do have some advice from many years of non-professional work. Group your tools by what you do. You've already identified woodworking (That's a group. Draw up a "corner" that shows how you think that you would like to set it up). I would guess that you have a toolbox with a workbench or two for wrenching on the jeeps. I would make that another set. Welding and fabricating would be another area. I have a jeep as well and know that you use the welder on the tub quite a bit during a restore so you don't want the welder too far from where you keep the project vehicle. Since you say you work on a project and still work on your daily drivers I would say that you need a location for a project car and still be able to reach a location to work on your daily driver without having to move the project vehicle. (Maybe put the project in backward and the Daily Driver in foward. The toolbox should be near the intersection???) I would count the project vehicle as a group and the daily driver as another one. Make a paper layout (to scale) for each of the groups and slide them around on the paper. Once you get them laid out think about how you work. Do you normally pull a part off of the vehicle and end up going to the welder on a regular basis? If so it would be more convenient to have the welder close. If the welder is not used as often you can put it across the room.

I would put as many of the tools on mobile bases as I could and stategically place all 220 electrical outlets so that they can be reached by equipment at multiple locations. I would put 110 outlets all over the place and air outlets almost as common. This also helps a lot when you decide that you want to rearrange the shop.

 

[Keep]

Mobile bases are your friend. I placed the least used tools on them to make it easier to move/store when not it use.

Next I looked at the tools and grouped them by use, grinders/sanders in a group (or in my case on the same mobile cabinet), drill press near the bandsaw. With my workbench being in the center.

Then the compressor in the corner where it will be out of the way, yet easy to get to and service.

Of course my shop is about 1/4 the size of yours so layout was a little easier even so I have moved it around about 4 times.

No matter how much you plan, it will change more then once.

 

[JamNut]

Google image search is a wonderful thing!!

"Metal shop layout"
"woodshop layout"
"sanding station layout"
ETC, ETC

Pictures of metal working shop layouts: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...ayout&btnG=Search&aq=o&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=


K.

 

[JamNut]

Here's a fair layout (attachment) and should give you an idea of where to start. Sit down and start sketching lay outs, take the lay outs to the barn, put card board boxes where you want your major equipment / tools at and label them. Act like you're using the work space, see if it flows, if not move your boxes (equipment) until your work flows smooth. I had to use all areas in my old shop for storage, rafters over head, underneath benches, pegboard on walls, roll around carts, ETC.

the attached image was found here: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...off&sa=G&tbs=isch:1&ei=yH9VTI38J8eOjAfL-dTDBA

Hope this is some help!

K.

 

[fflintstone]

Here's a fair layout (attachment) and should give you an idea of where to start. Sit down and start sketching lay outs, take the lay outs to the barn, put card board boxes where you want your major equipment / tools at and label them. Act like you're using the work space, see if it flows, if not move your boxes (equipment) until your work flows smooth. I had to use all areas in my old shop for storage, rafters over head, underneath benches, pegboard on walls, roll around carts, ETC.

the attached image was found here: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...off&sa=G&tbs=isch:1&ei=yH9VTI38J8eOjAfL-dTDBA

Hope this is some help!

K.

THANKS! this was a step in the right direction.
I WILL EVENTUALY BE MAKING A SCALE DRAWING IN AUTOCAD.
this is what I was working on last evening (I hope i can post a pdf)

this is the stuff I have to place:

Woodworking:
Table saw with large router table& fence, infeed/outfeed rollers
6” joiner, 12” plainer, 2 bag dust collector,
Scroll saw on stand,
4”belt 9”disc sander.
Dual compound siding miter saw on foldable stand.

Welding/grinding:
3’ x 6’ water bath cutting table.
Plasma cutter.
Large set of torches on cart.
Mig welder on cart.
Arc welder on cart (soon to be replaced with a tig)
(2) 7” bench grinders, (one on pedestal)
6” belt 12” disc industrial sander.
32” x 48” aluminum table with hand shear, vice, arbor press and chainsaw grinder
14” cut saw.

Other large floor tools:
(2) 7x12 metal cutting bandsaws
(3) Floor drill presses (2 small one huge)
One drill press will have a dedicated mortising attachment eventually
A non functional 24” swing 5’ bed metal lathe.(this thing is huge and will go into the lean to after it is completed)
Air compressor
Large folding engine hoist.
Engine stand
250 gal oil drum that will be a wood heater.
Lots of other junk I am forgetting about.

 

[tatra]

have you poured the concrete yet?..........diy?........

 

[fflintstone]

have you poured the concrete yet?..........diy?........

No I have not poured yet. Due to an extreme lack of funds it will ALL be do it your self.
If first have to get all of that **** out of the barn, level the dirt floor, form it up, and remove the siding from one side of the barn so I can get the concrete in. I wish I had the funds for insulation (for a thermal break) and PEX tubing for radiant heat.

 

[tatra]

well, make provisions for female receptacles for tubing [square preferably] for possible winch achours to move unpowered hulks via winches, power tool or vice suppprts that can be moved to the job or multi position applications as needed, etc...........i would go from putting wheels on all benches to a palletized concept and a pallet jack , preferably motorized , and high reach...............if automotive is your gig and resto, check out the recycling, junkyard shops......the ones you would like your shop to look like............is the floor going to be thick enuff to support a hoist if the future improves?............and placement of that is crucial, imho, if ancours need to to be installed, given that a punctured line is best avoided.............i would also incorporate a french drain / exhoust manifold too.............

 

[tatra]

french drain..........basically a trench with a cover on on it.................most have a grate over them......... the exhaust manifold comes into play when you replace the grate with solid steel plate and have strategic holes placed in the plates for hoses and exaust blower hookup.............. you have no drain so you can allow the water to pool in the trench and use the blower to evaporate h2o, especially in the winter.........with the flloor heat, humidity is a major concern when snow laden vehicles come in..........free distilled water and the byproduct of heat when a dehumidifier is used..........dunno if heat pumps can do the same thing?.............won't appologize for backpeedling on the planning stages but these are things a year after the pour you may be going wtf , why didn't i do that?....

 

[fflintstone]

french drain..........basically a trench with a cover on on it.................most have a grate over them......... the exhaust manifold comes into play when you replace the grate with solid steel plate and have strategic holes placed in the plates for hoses and exaust blower hookup.............. you have no drain so you can allow the water to pool in the trench and use the blower to evaporate h2o, especially in the winter.........with the flloor heat, humidity is a major concern when snow laden vehicles come in..........free distilled water and the byproduct of heat when a dehumidifier is used..........dunno if heat pumps can do the same thing?.............won't appologize for backpeedling on the planning stages but these are things a year after the pour you may be going wtf , why didn't i do that?....

I was not planning on putting any sort of drain in the floor. I never planed to wash anything inside the shop. Given my limited experience pouring cement, I don’t want the hassle of adding slope. However it would be minimal cost to add a 3”PVC drain even without any slope. I think you misunderstood my post, as I CANNOT afford any PEX or insulation for floor heat. The only heat on the barn will be wood burner and a multi fuel ready heater. I have access to one of the ceiling mounted furnaces in the future, but with no money for propane and no insulation (ceiling or walls) I figure why bother.

I do want to run the 220V electrical under the slab, with a minimum of 3 220V circuits I will save at over 20 feet per outlet going under rather than up and back down.

I had not thought of adding anchor points and or receivers in concrete. That is a great idea! Once again though it beds the question, WHERE?

Thinking about even temporary heat in the barn, I really need to try to get some type of ceiling up, as the condensation on the metal roof will have it raining inside.

PLEASE! back pedal all you want. I really want to minimize the "why the f@#$ didnt I do that"

 

[DCarr]

I took measurements of my machines and then used MS paint to draw the layout. I started early and probably worked on it off and on for about 6 months until I came up with a plan I liked.

 

[fflintstone]

I took measurements of my machines and then used MS paint to draw the layout. I started early and probably worked on it off and on for about 6 months until I came up with a plan I liked.

As I said before I will be using AUTOCAD to draw it up once I have all my ideas. I worked for 32 years in the automotive engineering business until GM and others have now shipped most of their engineering services overseas. That being said I am well versed in many different CAD programs.

The thing is, I have never had all this stuff in one place before. I want to group the tools most logically. Anything that needs to be under the concrete needs to be figured out NOW. That is the most pressing thing. Just yesterday I remembered my table saw could operate on 220V. That was another circuit I had forgotten about. Every circuit I can run under the slab saves over 20 feet of cable. Electrical cable isn’t cheap anymore and I am unemployed.

 

[mdbeck1]

As I said before I will be using AUTOCAD to draw it up once I have all my ideas. I worked for 32 years in the automotive engineering business until GM and others have now shipped most of their engineering services overseas. That being said I am well versed in many different CAD programs.

The thing is, I have never had all this stuff in one place before. I want to group the tools most logically. Anything that needs to be under the concrete needs to be figured out NOW. That is the most pressing thing. Just yesterday I remembered my table saw could operate on 220V. That was another circuit I had forgotten about. Every circuit I can run under the slab saves over 20 feet of cable. Electrical cable isn’t cheap anymore and I am unemployed.

Why not post a list of the equipment (grouped) here and ask for assistance? I'd be happy to point out different places that stuff could be grouped.

For instance... did you know that you can use a radial arm saw to cut aluminum AND steel? You just have to change the blades and clean up the sawdust...

 

[crewchief888]

i rented a building approx 45' wide, 30 deep with 2 over head doors. i moved stuff around several times before i finally gave up lol
i ended up with toolboxes along the back wall welder, plasma cutter on carts, and made everything as portable as possible, i have several HF 18"X24" utility work stands and have chop saw, tubing notcher, bender, bench grinder on them.
i lined one wall with 1x10 and 2X10 shelves made most of the angle brackets from old garage door tracks.
i had a friends jeep, my s-10 blazer sitting in 2 bays, used the 3rd bay with no door for heavy parts storage ie: engines, trans, xfercases, tires and axles

ive since moved everything back to my 19x22 garage. gone are heavy spare parts, but i managed to get most of the smaller stuff up on shelves, and tools reorganized, and put away.
anything you can get off the floor is a HUGE help when trying to organize.
ive moved everything in the garage 2 times in the past 6 months trying to make it wok a little better.

 

[fflintstone]

Why not post a list of the equipment (grouped) here and ask for assistance? I'd be happy to point out different places that stuff could be grouped.

For instance... did you know that you can use a radial arm saw to cut aluminum AND steel? You just have to change the blades and clean up the sawdust...

If your read reply #15 of this post, it lists most of the major equipment.

It is a moot point since I have both a 14" abrasive chopsaw and a 12" partner gas cut saw. Sliding compound miter saws have pretty much rendered radial arm saws obsolete. They can be put on a folding base and take up a lot less room. Although radial arm saws go for a fraction of their original price at garage sales, they are still more than the lover end non-sliding miter saws are.


Before I had the chopsaws I borrowed a friends dewalt miter saw. I was chopping down the angles on a gorilla shelving unit, to fit into a 47 ¾” opening. The abrasive disc did a great job cutting, but the sparks melted the plastic in the discharge chute. I felt bad and was willing to buy the replacement piece but the saw ended up stolen shortly there after.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'll add my two cents, looking at your layout. For noise control, I'd put the air compressor away from the office/mancave. That'd **** trying to watch TV/listen to the radio and have to turn the compressor off.

If it's easily turned on/off and you want it near the office/mancave, that's fine. I'd suggest putting it up above the room then, that is of course if you can physically get it up there. That would save floor space.

 

[fflintstone]

I'll add my two cents, looking at your layout. For noise control, I'd put the air compressor away from the office/mancave. That'd **** trying to watch TV/listen to the radio and have to turn the compressor off.

If it's easily turned on/off and you want it near the office/mancave, that's fine. I'd suggest putting it up above the room then, that is of course if you can physically get it up there. That would save floor space.

The on off switch is on the pressure switch at elbow height, easy to turn off. I also have the drain hooked up to high-pressure plastic drainpipe with a valve mounted on the backside of the first water separator. I mainly wanted it away from the welding. I don’t want to put it up off the floor both because of the switch location, but mainly after 32 years with a single stage compressor I actually want to see my new-used two stage Quincy! However, if I move it to the other wall near the water hydrant, I will use less cable and I can run the intake pipe and filter out the wall and it will be in a sheltered area where I will have a storage lean to on that side of the barn.

 

[fflintstone]

Still open to Ideas, suggestions and what not. Gleaned a few tips from everybody here, hoping for more.

 

[fflintstone]

Hey I found a relivent book!
http://www.fmastore.org/Practical-Guide-for-Improving-Your-Metal-Fabricating-Shop-Layout-P75.aspx

I am going to try to get it through an inter library loan.

 

[DuluthMN]

I don't do much building or shop work, but for what it is worth I like open spaces, no clutter and a 25 to 20' work bench. I like working in a line if that makes any sense.

 

[fflintstone]

I don't do much building or shop work, but for what it is worth I like open spaces, no clutter and a 25 to 20' work bench. I like working in a line if that makes any sense.

my current plan is for about 24' of continuous bench along one wall. another 10' wood work bench along another, and I have a 12" stainless rolling cart.
I also have a 30" X 4' aluminum table with a few items mounted as well.

 

[csp]

Anything that needs to be under the concrete needs to be figured out NOW. That is the most pressing thing. Just yesterday I remembered my table saw could operate on 220V. That was another circuit I had forgotten about. Every circuit I can run under the slab saves over 20 feet of cable.

So think of any possible wiring scenario and put conduit under the slab so you have options after you begin to setup.

 

[graffix000]

As a matter of fact there is:

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

Great tool. I have used it on my last couple of shops, and also a new (previous) Toyota dealership build

that is a cool tool. thanks for the link!

 

[Dustoff]

I have been playing with the shop planner at:

http://www.fbibuildings.com/planner. It has helped my visualize how all my stuff might fit (or not) into different spaces...helped me come up with some idea of what I would like to build.

Hope it helps.

Shaun

 

[fflintstone]

THANKS TO ALL THAT ARE TRYING TO HELP, I DO APPRECIATE THE EFFORT.

There are lots of places on the web that let you plan out a shop using drop and drag items from a library. Others have posted about the graph paper and cut outs (same thing only no computer) As I have said before I can do all that with several different professional level CAD programs I have or have access to.

What I was looking for is a book and or other resource as to WHERE TO PUT WHAT ITEM IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE OTHER.
IE: don’t put the plasma cutter under the abrasive cutter so the filings don’t short out the circuit board.
I am looking to bundle tools together by usage and centralize tools that have multiple uses.

Other than the book I found on line “practical guide for improving your metal fabrication shop layout” I have found no resources. I don’t think my local borders bookstore is going to have this $100 book. I am going to try to get it from an interlibrary loan, but that isn’t always possible.

 

[fflintstone]

better pic of a more current concept.

 

[Falcon67]

No, no, no - use the "zen" concept of arrangement. Maybe call it "Fung Schwing" lol. just start buying machines and stuff, then cram them in there. It'll all find it's own space. Ask me how I know this, they guy in a 20x24 with 30x40 worth of stuff. I NEVER look at "where's that going to go" if I get a deal on something. I'll figger it out when it comes in the overhead door.

Makes my wife crazy. "Um, where do you think you're going to put that?" "I dunno, I'll see" roll eyes....

 

[fflintstone]

No, no, no - use the "zen" concept of arrangement. Maybe call it "Fung Schwing" lol. just start buying machines and stuff, then cram them in there. It'll all find it's own space. Ask me how I know this, they guy in a 20x24 with 30x40 worth of stuff. I NEVER look at "where's that going to go" if I get a deal on something. I'll figger it out when it comes in the overhead door.

Makes my wife crazy. "Um, where do you think you're going to put that?" "I dunno, I'll see" roll eyes....

I was doing a lot of that this spring. I upgraded many of my tools. Sold a ton of jeep parts and bought tools. Sold the old tools to pay for better used ones I was picking up industrial stuff dirt-cheap. I drew the line at buying a forth drill press (a 4 speed 1930’s buffalo floor model for $75). I am paying for it now, as I have to move everything out to pour the floor.
But I am close.
Here is how it sits today.

 

[fireguy]

I would put as many of the tools on mobile bases as I could and stategically place all 220 electrical outlets so that they can be reached by equipment at multiple locations. I would put 110 outlets all over the place and air outlets almost as common. This also helps a lot when you decide that you want to rearrange the shop.

Electrical receptcles can be dropped from overhead. Go into kitchen at McDonalds and look at their overhead receptacles. Not cheap, but very high quality. Those receptacles get unplugged almost daily

 

[fflintstone]

Electrical receptcles can be dropped from overhead. Go into kitchen at McDonalds and look at their overhead receptacles. Not cheap, but very high quality. Those receptacles get unplugged almost daily

I will look at McDonalds the next time I am in there. The closest one is 18 miles away, but my four year old loves the McDouble. Cant beat the $1 menu when you are unemployed.
I had thought about putting some outlets in the floor. But code legal floor outlets are insanely expensive.
I really need to get off the computer and finish cleaning out the barn. Then I can spend 8 hours with the loader trying to level the floor. After that my neighbor can spend a half hour with his backhoe and get it right.