I need help with my welding

[Fender1325]

I have a Hobart Handler 140 that I bought after my harbor frieght drove me crazy and I returned it after 3 days.

My current setup is .030 flux core wire.

I've been building boxes for practice. One I did with 18 gauge and this current one is 22 gauge steel. I cut everything to size and flapdisked everything with 80 grit. Being that its thin metal - I dont try and run a bead bc I know thatd burn through.

Some of my welds sizzle like bacon, and a lot pop - like as if its dirty and not making a good arc. I try to maintain 1/4-1/2" stick out.

I end up with a ton of booger welds.

My main question is when youre building a box, and one panel is flat and the other is 90 degrees going upward, where do you stick and start the wire? Do you just hold it directly in the corner and let a little bead form, or do you kind of start on the bottom flat piece and let it melt into the side of the upright piece?

I'm having trouble making things look nice. I have a feeling a small part of it has to do with flux core wire.

Id love some help with the various types of joints you encounter when welding a 22 gauge box. (flat against 90 upright, 3 panels forming a corner, and 2 upright panels forming a 90 degree joint that goes vertical.)

Thanks. Oh and I'll post some pics in a second from my phone.

 

[Fender1325]

Picture

 

[gol4]

This may be helpful also other links on the site as well.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/tech_tips/MIG_tips/

 

[iigs]

Disclaimer: I've never welded a thing in my life, but welding videos on Youtube are the only thing my seven month old son will calm down to, so I've picked up a few things.

You've got a few things stacked against you. You're right about flux core -- it makes slag, so there's a limit to the weld purity you can expect. You're welding thin material, which isn't the easiest with flux core (or MIG at all). Outside corner joints are some of the hardest to control from a heat perspective.

My suggestion would be to start eliminating variables. Can you weld satisfactory plain flat beads on a thicker test piece? If not, double check the welder polarity, flux core is backward from regular MIG. If that's right and you still can't get it dialed in, you might try a different wire, but that's throwing money at the problem with no guarantee. If you do, the Hobart stuff is reputed to be bad, but the Harbor Freight and Lincoln from the big boxes are supposedly ok.

Going with gas and solid wire is probably a better way to go. You can certainly get a clean, if not TIG-pretty, weld with MIG.

Once you're satisfied with the bead quality, try beads flat on a sheet of the final material to tune power, then tackle the corner joints. You're probably going to need some kind of heat sink and/or corner backing to prevent the back side of the joint from oxidizing and looking terrible.

ChuckE2009 on Youtube just did a great guide on the basics of flux core. Check out

, particularly the second half where he covers what going out of range on various settings does.

Edit: Based on the photo, I'd say try less wire speed and slow down, it doesn't look like it's penetrating at all to me.

 

[f575gtc]

with 22awg you are going to want to use .23 wire with gas, the metal is too thin for .30 flux core.

did you make sure the ground wire is set properly for flux core?

If you are building an upright you would want to make a cursive e pattern or like a zigzag almost.

the problem is you wont be able to do a consistent bead on 22awg without warping metal or burning through it, you need to do stitch spot welds and fill in spots over and over again until you have a solid bead.

Like this

 

[rockwithjason]

dump the flux core and go to gas. the difference is huge. even with gas, 22 ga will need to be stitched as stated above. flux core is good for heavier metals buy hell on thin metals

 

[GTA Matt]

Wire speed looks way too fast IMO and is what causes that little popcorn weld. Go off the chart on the welder, probably need around 30-40% amperage and way low on speed. Practice on thicker metals too.

 

[Fender1325]

Good input guys thanks. I definitely did stitch because I already learned the hard way how easy it is to warp stuff. Theres actually no info on the chart regarding 22 gauge for flux core - probably because its just plain not recommended! Haha. I will slow down the wire feed speed and see what happens. I also have a little bit of scrap I can run a few test beads on.

Still though - one big question for me - When I'm making a joint where theres one flat panel mating to an upright panel (creating a horizontal 90 degree joint), where do I put the wire stickout? Above the joint, below the joint, or directly in the center of the mating surfaces? Any gun angle I should be aware of?

On a side note - I cant imagine using .023 wire. I started with .035 on the harbor freight, and went to .030 with the Hobart. Even the .030 feels a little small to me.

 

[Zeke]

I don't believe there is any .023 FC to be had. When the wire is hollow you are welding with less filler metal than if the same size solid. Wire looks way too fast. Keep trying at slower then slower speeds until the wire melts off at the tip.

I use FC a lot. I have gas, I have TIG, I have stick and I find that for general use FC is fine. Maybe it's not as pretty as GMAW but it does a very good job.

18 and 22 ga. are very thin sheet and welding continuous on them is impossible. Welding with FCAW (flux core) leaves too many inclusions. If you want to weld with your .030 FC, get some 1/8 or better yet, 3/16ths to practice on.

Oh. BTW, when doing a fillet weld in with on piece vertical and the other flat, bias your puddle towards the vertical piece and weave down and back up, pause, and weave back down.

Interesting comment about the baby. Super star weldor prodigy?

 

[Fender1325]

Excellent - I'll apply these tips. Thanks.

That chucke2009 video helped a good bit - mainly showing what happens when you have too low of voltage/too high wire feed speed. Exactly what was happening with me. I have the voltage set to minimum for this thin stuff, but the wire feed must've still been set on settings for 18 gauge. I'll lower it and see if I can get something better happening.

 

[rsanter]

Flux core is problem one....
Next. Do you have the right polarity set for using flux core

Bob

 

[kkroger]

www.weldingtipsandtricks.com
He is a welding instructor for American Airlines good instructional videos.

 

[dougf]

Flux core isnt the devil. Yes, its harder, and the welds dont look as pretty, but thats all I use for sheet metal. Go slow, zap here, zap there, keep it cool, take your time, set your gaps correct, and you will be fine. Practice on scrap. I do floor pans, inner and outer rockers, cab corners, whatever I need on my projects. i just have to take my time, ensure the panels are properly fitted, and zap, move to another spot, zap, etc... Like stated earlier, even with gas you cant run a continuous bead on anything around 18 gauge anyway.

OP: Make sure all metal is clean and free of contaminates, and that your ground is secure to clean shiny metal close to the weld. If you plug your welder into a crappy extension cord and have a bad ground, you will produce welds like this. Buy a good heavy duty extension cord if you need to use one and make sure the ground is on good metal.

 

[toofart]

Nothing wrong with FC other than it's a more difficult process. As others have mentioned, it will be next to impossible to run a bead, so stitching is what you'll want to do. You'll need to spend some time dialing in your settings.

Here was my first attempt at doing some body panels a few years ago. I used .030 FC. You can kinda see the progression from burn-through to gobs of goo to actual stitches:

After a while I was able to get this:

Keep at it, play with the settings and have fun!

 

[jimgood]

I agree that flux core is NOT the problem.

I learned with O/A and then bought the same Hobart you have and have done nothing but flux core. I've even practiced with some scrap sheet off a car and was able to not only do a weld exactly like you're doing but hammered the ever loving **** out of it with out it breaking. This was with .030 wire. I wish I could remember the settings.

View media item 47634

 

[383 240z]

This is going to sound strange, but are you using an extension cord? If you are, don't leave it coiled, lay it out so it doesn't overlap. I'm not sure but when I was welding with my old Italian mig machine it made all the difference. I had no consistency before one bead would be great move to the other side of the project, same settings, same metal, **** beads!! started laying the cord out flat on the advise of a welder at work, and the problem went away. Keith

 

[sberry]

flux uses a longer stickout

 

[Fender1325]

Well Ive done more messing today.

A few notes:

1.) The polarity is correct.

2.) I tried lowering the wire feed speed but that made the popping worse. Increasing actually helped it seems, but it still popped every now and then, and more annoying: several times Id get no arc and waste wire pushing out an inch or two, having to clip it off.

I tried upping the power one notch but that was too hot.

This project seems very sensitive to wire feed speed. Mine has an (infinity knob?) just a smooth dial that goes to 90. I experimented with 15-30. I ended up being happy closer to 30. It seemed to sizzle most consistently then, but I also had to shorten the trigger time a lot.

Still experimenting...

I should note - I live in a rental town home and Im willing to bet the outlet out back is 15 amp and not 20.

 

[dogdog]

....
Next. Do you have the right polarity set for using flux core

Bob

check this..... the flux core setting and the mig gas setting are different in polarity....

I use flux core only just because gas is a hassle to get . I have this same problem when I set the wire travel too fast and volt / heat setting too low on my lincoln sp something similar to your miller.. for mine I set to D setting equivalent to your 4 on the V.... and travel speed to 30 and increase a little to 40 if needed.


watch this video I actually got the dvd of him. one of the best videos produced.

Don't watch this

 

[joseph.a.owens.9]

With any thing that produces slag start at the bottom and work up.

 

[Fender1325]

Finished the box - its just a basic jewelry box for my fiancé.

 

[Fender1325]

Pics are coming up sideways sorry

 

[toofart]

That looks alright, congratulations. Nice work.

 

[Fender1325]

Thanks

 

[BrewFabInd.]

Two things I use for info are How To Weld by Motorbooks Workshop
http://www.amazon.com/How-To-Weld-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/076033174X

and videos from http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

This guy has some seriously helpful videos