I need more light but what is enough with all this "T" stuff.....

[T VETTE]

I know this is a wide open question but I have a 3 car garage with one window. It is a 20X30 and the walls are painted white. Want to use a 4' set up but a 2 bulb or 4? T4 or T8 ? Use 6 units or 8? Have read some here but not sure.

My old house I just had the old hanging big tube set up with 5 units and it was good.

What would be a nice set up without having to buy a power plant to go with it. Thanks

 

[Shocker]

Your best bang for the buck is 2 bulb, 4 foot florescent with an electronic ballast and using T8 bulbs.

You will see some T12 bulb units, but the T12 bulb is on it's way out.

My shop is just a bit bigger than yours and I am running 16 Lights of America units like I described above. I bought them at Walmart for about 9 bucks each.

I use a 5100k bulb temp. I like the more natural look to the light. I tried the 6500k and found them to be too blue.

You will have to decide for yourself how much light you want. I really wanted a lot of light, but I don't think I am too far out of line for shops on the board.

 

[malibu101]

What is a "T" when talking about bulbs?
"T" is 1/8".
Therefore a T8 is 1" in diameter. A T12 is 1 1/2" in diameter.

The "T" designator is used in describing certain incandescent bulbs too.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

For the same wattage, a larger diameter bulb generally produces less light. A 34 watt T12 isn't near as bright as a 34 watt T8. May have a little to do with the power supply, but mostly with the light.

Charles

 

[T VETTE]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info and any more to come.

I pulled off the lens from one of the two already mounted by the builder last year. The bulbs are from Germany and don't say anything about T info or watts. May just start over with all new.

 

[travisd]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info and any more to come.

I pulled off the lens from one of the two already mounted by the builder last year. The bulbs are from Germany and don't say anything about T info or watts. May just start over with all new.

Pull off the cover and check the ballast itself - that will tell you what it's rated for.

 

[PassnThru]

Went through the same thing when outfitting my 24 X 32 detached. I found a software program at Lithonia useful - check here:
http://www.visual-3d.com/
Check the Basic Edition out. It's free and will help with how much light you want and with the layout.
One other thing from my experience - I went with T8's with electronic ballasts. They fire right up even in the 30s and colder. I ordered mine through a local electrical distributor - I have had trouble with the cheap big box lights even if they were a brand name. I don't think they sell the same quality lights even within a given brand.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

when i built my 30x34 in 03, i put in 4 8' high voltage lights...they start great in winter and provide plenty of light (i only have them in half the garage and they light up 3/4 of the garage really well....they were $50 for the fixture and more for the bulbs......a tad on the epensive side...

so you guys are saying that i'd be better off with smaller diameter bulbs? i can certainly see how much of a price difference there is with the 4 footers.....

i'm getting ready to put some lights in my new 40x80 this summer, and i'd like the following; bright, less expensive (i don't want to lose quality, though, effieceint, and starts great in winter........

so these T8 are the way to go??

 

[Stuart in MN]

As mentioned above, the old style T12 lamps will eventually be phased out altogether. T8 lamps are more energy efficient (so you get more light for a given watt rating) and use electronic ballasts instead of the old magnetic ballasts, so they generally start faster and are generally more resistant to cold temperatures. I'm not sure what you mean by 'high voltage' lights - fluorescent lamps for residential use are almost universally 120vac, are your existing lights running on 240vac?

 

[Flathead Youngin']

i've just always heard them called that...the bulbs are green on the ends....they don't hmmm or flicker much at all compared to the regular 8' florescent lights......at the time, i paid $50 vs $30 for an 8' double fixture.....

let me see if i can find a link.... mine have the one pin on the end of the bulb....commercial???

looks like i need to do a lot more homework.....i may pick up one of these t8 you guys are talking about from wally world and see what i think!

As mentioned above, the old style T12 lamps will eventually be phased out altogether. T8 lamps are more energy efficient (so you get more light for a given watt rating) and use electronic ballasts instead of the old magnetic ballasts, so they generally start faster and are generally more resistant to cold temperatures. I'm not sure what you mean by 'high voltage' lights - fluorescent lamps for residential use are almost universally 120vac, are your existing lights running on 240vac?

 

[comedyman809]

try the t5.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

this helped me...thought it may help others....

so you can buy fixtures for t8 that are 8' long but uses 4' bulbs......

http://www.ehow.com/about_5426758_fluorescent-vs-bulbs.html

 

[BackAgain]

As mentioned above, the old style T12 lamps will eventually be phased out altogether.

I don't understand why people keep saying this. That is NOT TRUE!!! T12 lamps will be available for sale for as long as anyone wants to buy one - probably longer than you and I will live. T12 magnetic ballasts are going away but there are electronic ballasts still being made to replace them.

That doesn't make T12s a good choice, they're like casette tapes. You're still going to be able to buy tapes for a long, long, long time. Even though they're totally, way, way, completely, and utterly outdated...

 

[HIRISC]

when i built my 30x34 in 03, i put in 4 8' high voltage lights...they start great in winter and provide plenty of light (i only have them in half the garage and they light up 3/4 of the garage really well....they were $50 for the fixture and more for the bulbs......a tad on the epensive side...

so you guys are saying that i'd be better off with smaller diameter bulbs? i can certainly see how much of a price difference there is with the 4 footers.....

i'm getting ready to put some lights in my new 40x80 this summer, and i'd like the following; bright, less expensive (i don't want to lose quality, though, effieceint, and starts great in winter........

so these T8 are the way to go??

In a word, yes.

 

[HIRISC]

try the t5.

T5 lighting is for high-bay applications (<13 ft), no?

 

[BackAgain]

T5 lighting is for high-bay applications (<13 ft), no?

T5 is for high-dollar applications. They're great lights but they cost way, way more per lumen than any other kind. I mean really, to light up a good sized shop with them, would cost as much as building a cheap "kit" shop.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

curious too...i'm dealing with 14' and 16' ceilings......

i bought two t8 from wally world but it'll be quite a long time before i get them put up.....i'd like to buy 6 more then i can do an exact comparison between the two styles..

 

[Flathead Youngin']

Well, I stopped passed my local electrical supply house here. They didn't even stock T12's or T8's. They only had in stock T5, 6 bulb fixtures. That's what they had in their large warehouse. They wanted $156 for the fixture and $8 each for the bulbs.......that's over $200 per fixture!

He said the T5 bulbs were 52watts each.

Answer a question for me. How is a T5 that is 52 watts, more efficient than a T8 that is (if I remember without running out to the garage) 40 some watts? Or do they make T8 in higher wattages?

I'm now leaning more towards T8's. I don't mind to pay extra for efficiency but when you are talking 3 or 4 times the cost......

 

[DURAMAT]

Flat you'll be fine going with the T8' and they're probably cheaper too regarding the the cost them. Home depot and lowes should have them. Even your local electric supply store should have them, however they don't always sell them to you at contractor pricing so then your back to lowes or depot.

I rcommend 8' long 4 lamp style. I also recommend that your lamps are an 841's (F32T841) ANSI or GE F32T8SPX41. let me explain. The 8 represents your CRI (color rendering index) colors are 80% true to one another under that lamp. Also, the 841's (SPX's) are a little brighter than than the SP41's. And if you need to save $ over the 841's and settle on 741's THATS FINE, your not selling carpet or furniture and your greasy nuts and bolts won't care either lol

 

[Rudyjr]

Not to hijack this thread but on this subject, does anyone know wether Cooper Metalux lights are any good? I have been quoted $52.00 each for 6Metalux WN432AUNVEB81 four bulb 4 foot T8 fixtures by a local electrical supplier. I know that there have been some issues with rf interference with some fixtures with electronic ballasts. I converted two older unreliable T12 Lithonia wraparounds in my wifes laundry room to T8's with new electronic ballasts from the same supplier and boy what a difference in light output!

 

[DURAMAT]

Rudy they are an excellent fixture and price sounds right. No worries if you use that fixture

 

[Rudyjr]

Thanks for the info. I have never used Metalux before always Lithonia. I have not even seen this fixture in person so I have no idea as to the quality. I would hope it is pretty comparable to other commercial fixtures.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

thanks for the sound advice........i think these would work especially well in my area that i'm going to finish.....

the other end, however, is for storing the tractor, mowers, atvs, etc.....anything large and small to keep my shop part clean...

there's a guy on craigslist that has some of these for a pretty good price.....what's everyone's opinion on them....

http://www.businesslights.com/durag...tal-halide-16in-aluminum-high-bay-p-1873.html

Flat you'll be fine going with the T8' and they're probably cheaper too regarding the the cost them. Home depot and lowes should have them. Even your local electric supply store should have them, however they don't always sell them to you at contractor pricing so then your back to lowes or depot.

I rcommend 8' long 4 lamp style. I also recommend that your lamps are an 841's (F32T841) ANSI or GE F32T8SPX41. let me explain. The 8 represents your CRI (color rendering index) colors are 80% true to one another under that lamp. Also, the 841's (SPX's) are a little brighter than than the SP41's. And if you need to save $ over the 841's and settle on 741's THATS FINE, your not selling carpet or furniture and your greasy nuts and bolts won't care either lol

 

[BackAgain]

Well, I stopped passed my local electrical supply house here. They didn't even stock T12's or T8's.

Don't go back there. That's like a Home Depot that doesn't stock nails.

He said the T5 bulbs were 52watts each.

Answer a question for me. How is a T5 that is 52 watts, more efficient than a T8 that is (if I remember without running out to the garage) 40 some watts? Or do they make T8 in higher wattages?

You have to compare lumens per watt. I'm not sure what the lumens are on a T5, but a 40 watt T12 puts out about 2800 lumens. A 32 watt T8 puts out about 2900 lumens. At 52 watts, I'm guessing one T5 has more lumens than two T8s.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

i asked him like 3 times because i didn't believe him.....this is a big place and "the go-to place" for anything the big box stores don't have......they have just about everything.....well, except t8 and 12 stuff

i'm seriously doubting that those t5's were 52watt.....i could be wrong....

thanks for the help!

Don't go back there. That's like a Home Depot that doesn't stock nails.


You have to compare lumens per watt. I'm not sure what the lumens are on a T5, but a 40 watt T12 puts out about 2800 lumens. A 32 watt T8 puts out about 2900 lumens. At 52 watts, I'm guessing one T5 has more lumens than two T8s.

 

[burleymike]

I have some 400w metal halide fixtures for my future shop. I got them at a habitat store for about $10 each. I hung one in my garage while I am slowly fixing the ceiling framing and it lights up the place like the sun. While they are not as efficient as t8 or t5 florescent fixtures they get the job done even when it is below zero out there, the price was right as well.

T8 lamps with an electronic ballast are about 30% more efficient than metal halide with a magnetic ballast. For how much use they will get I would not see the savings for a long long time.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

Ok, I did some experimenting. I bought two of the T8 cold start fixtures at wally world the other day. I bought the 6500k bulbs. I fired them up and compared to my high output T12's, 8'that are 40watt (not sure of the color) I don't think they are as bright and they don't have the rich color that I like with my T12's. Now, this is with the calibrated eyeball so I know it doesn't match the manufacturers specs for lumen. The T8 should be brighter I know. And, there were 4, 8' fixtures and 1 T8 with 6500k bulbs. Not a fair fight at all. I still doubt two 4' T8's, 6500k would beat one T12, 40w.......in the eyeball test.

So, I took them upstairs to replace some T12 4' fixtures. Here, was a dead straight comparison. A two bulb, 4', T12 vs a two bulb, 4', T8. The T8 did seem slightly brighter but the contrast between the lighted surface it creates and the shadows, makes it seem darker. In the 6500k, the T8 bulbs were certainly whiter, but they were very sterile looking compare to the old T12, 40w, cool lights.

Then, I had to go to wally world tonight. I ran back to grab a couple of bulbs. I wanted to try the 4100k and see how close they were to the older T12's. I also grabbed a package of the 3000k. First, the 3000's were waaaay to orange. Almost like the sodium bulbs. No way I like them. I then tried the 4100k. Much better, color wise. They were maybe just a tad bit dimmer, but I really believe they aren't (yes lumens wise they are). It's the contrast they created, I believe, that makes them seem brighter. They are so white.

Now, I know this contrast in shawdow would be much different if I had a whole shop full of them, thus eliminating shadows. This is just my opinion and using the calibrated eyeball. These two fixtures were in a very dark room and separated by much space. This is my upstairs storage, I don't need a lot of light.

Lastly, I think I found the perfect combination. I had two T8 fixtures, placed side by side. The older T12 was over in the other area all by its self. I put two 4100 bulbs in one fixture and two 6500 bulbs in the other. There, best of both world. Good color and a slightly higher white.....much broader spectrum.

No matter what fixtures I go with, I think I'm going to mix the bulbs.

.....just my opinion and my limited experience. I'm still not sure how well these would work on a 14' or 16' ceiling like I have at the new pole barn.

The wally world fixtures have a silver paint colored reflector. I can't help but think white would be better because this paint isn't as bright as the polished aluminum you see in, say, commercial fixtures.

 

[BackAgain]

You have to remember that T8s were designed to replace T12s lumen for lumen so they can be retrofitted easily without redesigning your whole lighting system. (like in a grocery store) They aren't supposed to be brighter, just more efficient.

I like having mixed bulbs too, I find the 6500k too blue, and the 4100k too sterile...anything below 4100k no way.