I need some help guys?

[2CRUZ]

I'm trying to wire an elect. two plug outlet under my sink but i have three wire and a copper ground coming out of the wall. I have black red and white plus ground. What do I do with the extra red wire? If I add it to the hot side doesn't that give me 220? I just need two 110 plugins one for the dishwasher and one for the disposal. If I put the black to the outlet that gives me 110 what should I do with the red? Thanks, guys
Not an Electrician
Mike

 

[dogdog]

No just cap it

I usually just cut it flush bent it over in a hook shape, and tape it. and stuff it in the box...

If you needed 240V then use the black and red, skip the white... just make sure you hook it up in the electrical panel to the "other" Legs ie.. one color for L1 and the other color for L2...

Neutral white wire not used, bend in hook and tape it up... , and ground wire is still ground..

 

[Lassen Forge]

Was it originally a 220 supply for a garbage disposal, or ?? That would be my first guess... likely White is Neutral, Black/Red are your 2 legs and copper is, of course, ground.

You'll need to do 2 things - one is to check the voltages across the various leads to determine exactly what you have, and then once you know what is what, chase that circuit back to the breaker box and, if it *was* a 220 circuit, switch out your breakers to remove the other half from being energized.

It could also be (for whatever reason - sometimes people do weird stuff in kitchens) your "common" for a 3 way switch... Lighting or maybe even a slave circuit for a water solenoid feeding your disposal...

It's all WAG unless you know what whire is doing what and from where...

 

[2CRUZ]

I just looked at the receptacle and I see that someone before me has broken the connection between the hot side of the two plugs so each one is separate. This would have each plug in using the same white neutral and the same copper ground is that OK?

 

[Dagny]

It's called a multi wire branch circuit. Was more popular before gfci. requirement.

 

[ard]

The black is likely hot. The red may be a SWITCHED hot leg.

This way you 'split' the receptacle on the line side, wire one with the black, the other with the red. The white is shared on the opposite side. Plug the disposal into the one that switches on and off when the disposal switch on the counter is operated....

maybe

so is there a switch? Does it control the power to one of the wires??

 

[2CRUZ]

Yes, there is a switch to the garage disposal. I think I understand now one side is connected to the switch for the disposal. Is it OK to use the same white wire for both sides? Is it safe? If I change it and use a GFI I would have to do the same thing and brake the connection between the hot side of the two plugs wouldn't I?

 

[sparky 1971]

I just looked at the receptacle and I see that someone before me has broken the connection between the hot side of the two plugs so each one is separate. This would have each plug in using the same white neutral and the same copper ground is that OK?

Hook the new receptacle up just like the old one. The red is more than likely the switched wire for the disposal and the black is for the dw.

 

[ard]

Yes, there is a switch to the garage disposal. I think I understand now one side is connected to the switch for the disposal. Is it OK to use the same white wire for both sides? Is it safe?

Absolutely.

(Had you mentioned all this in post #1 (ie there is a switch for the disposal...and it had been hooked up and working in a certain way before), people wouldnt have been darting all over the place!

If I change it and use a GFI I would have to do the same thing and brake the connection between the hot side of the two plugs wouldn't I?

No. I dont know if you need a GFCI, but there is none that will do what you want there.

The power likely comes FROM a receptacle above, over to the switch, then there is a 3 wire down to the lower receptacle. You want to install a GFI at that first receptacle ('before' the switch). Maybe it already is?

 

[grounded-b]

I just looked at the receptacle and I see that someone before me has broken the connection between the hot side of the two plugs so each one is separate. This would have each plug in using the same white neutral and the same copper ground is that OK?

This is a "split wired" receptacle.

Land the Black wire on one of the Brass screws, land the Red wire on the other Brass screw, and land the White wire on the other side of the receptacle, on the Silver screw.

Be sure to break off the brass tab on the new receptacle.

It is OK to share the neutral. There "may" be two breakers in your panel, one for disposal and one for dishwasher. If this is the case, this should changed to a 2-pole breaker, or a handle tie installed.

This ensures ALL power is killed to the outlet, with one throw of a breaker handle.

Steve

 

[egdede]

Most likely and very common for a shared neutral or multi-wire branch circuit (MWBC) in this as Steve notes. What he means is that there are 2 separate breakers in the panel that share a neutral. 1 breaker trips if the load on the black wired circuit exceeds capacity, and the other breaker protects the red wired circuit.

The 2 wires are fed by the different sides of your panel. Think of this; there are 2 hot wires and 1 neutral coming into your house. 3 wires. Your house is kind of a big shared neutral circuit. The 2 hot legs are out of phase. I believe if you have 2 equal loads running, they will 'cancel' each other out in that there will be no measurable current on the neutral leg. You are supposed to balance your whole house load as much as possible.

Hopefully both circuit are protected by 1 double pole circuit breaker so that when you trip it there is no power on either leg. They are supposed to both disconnect at the same time. (I used to think they were both supposed to trip, but another user explained the difference to me in another thread I can't find.) But, hacks can wire the 2 wires to single pole breakers. This is scary because if you don't figure it out right you will have power to one or the other of the wires.

ONLY WORK ON THESE WITH BOTH BREAKERS SHUT OFF!!! Check both with a multimeter before working.

Its possible someone used a single circuit with a switch leg, bit not likely given red wire.

 

[Jim greengo]

Find out which wire is actually a constant hot and if the other one is switched .

 

[ard]

Most likely and very common for a shared neutral or multi-wire branch circuit (MWBC) in this as Steve notes. What he means is that there are 2 separate breakers in the panel that share a neutral. 1 breaker trips if the load on the black wired circuit exceeds capacity, and the other breaker protects the red wired circuit.

The 2 wires are fed by the different sides of your panel. Think of this; there are 2 hot wires and 1 neutral coming into your house. 3 wires. Your house is kind of a big shared neutral circuit. The 2 hot legs are out of phase. I believe if you have 2 equal loads running, they will 'cancel' each other out in that there will be no measurable current on the neutral leg. You are supposed to balance your whole house load as much as possible.

Hopefully both circuit are protected by 1 double pole circuit breaker so that when you trip it there is no power on either leg. They are supposed to both disconnect at the same time. (I used to think they were both supposed to trip, but another user explained the difference to me in another thread I can't find.) But, hacks can wire the 2 wires to single pole breakers. This is scary because if you don't figure it out right you will have power to one or the other of the wires.

ONLY WORK ON THESE WITH BOTH BREAKERS SHUT OFF!!! Check both with a multimeter before working.

Its possible someone used a single circuit with a switch leg, bit not likely given red wire.

how can you possibly draw your initial conclusion?

Even after he comes back and tells you one leg is switched AND it was wired to a divided receptacle?!!

 

[egdede]

Said 'most likely' because of the red and black with no identified switch leg. At the switch, someone could have ran a red and black, but I always see 2 black wires. Just a guess. Otherwise someone went to the trouble to get red wire, shows they know the difference between a switch leg and power lead, but then didn't bother to label the switch leg(?). That doesn't seem likely to me...

Anyone using different colors for a switch leg would put a piece of tape on it...

 

[egdede]

Find out which wire is actually a constant hot and if the other one is switched .

If it is a MWBC he needs to make sure both breakers are switched.

 

[ard]

Said 'most likely' because of the red and black with no identified switch leg. At the switch, someone could have ran a red and black, but I always see 2 black wires. Just a guess. Otherwise someone went to the trouble to get red wire, shows they know the difference between a switch leg and power lead, but then didn't bother to label the switch leg(?). That doesn't seem likely to me...

Anyone using different colors for a switch leg would put a piece of tape on it...

lol

just nonsense.

 

[egdede]

Well instead of just laughing, help 2CRUZ out, tell him why what I say is just nonsense...

 

[SGKent]

and I was thinking someone may have pigtailed the hot in the switch box and run one leg thru the switch and the other leg straight to the other outlet. Instead of 220V, it might be 120V but one is switched. Regardless, it needs to be checked to see whether there is 220V or 0V between the red and black, and the appropriate breaker(s) switched off until there is no voltage between either, and also and to neutral / ground from each.

 

[2CRUZ]

Hey, Thanks Guys I'm sorry I caused so much confusion. That is what I, did I just wired it back the same way it was. Myself, not being an electrician, didn't even know you could break the connection on the receptacle. I went Lowes and tried to get a GFI but the guy said they didn't have one that you could break the connection like on the original one so I wired it back the way it was.
Thanks again
Guys.

 

[Jim greengo]

If it is a MWBC he needs to make sure both breakers are switched.

I'm guessing 1 was switched for a disposal,other 1 was feeding dishwasher?