I need some ideas on lightning my pole barn

[Jamie V]

I'm finally getting my electric to my 24'x40' pole barn and I need to start planning my light layout.

All my power in the barn will be exposed conduit

My ceiling height is 10' and all the walls and ceiling are painted gloss white to reflect light.

The garage door when open is so close to the ceiling a light will not fit above it so lightning will have to be around it.

There are four 22"x22" exhaust grills mounted in the ceiling and two 24"x24" access panels to get in the attic area that need to be missed.

I'm putting a ceiling fan in the dead center of the barn so lights will have to go around that also.

Here are some pictures....

 

[Jamie V]

I want some kind of surface mounted strip lights but all the ones I see seem to be so "cheaply" made. Are there any high quality ones?

 

[cybrdyke]

Jamie, all the big box stores sell the very cheapest versions of the strip fixtures. That's what their typical customer is looking for. Normally, even though they feel cheap, they're good enough for garage use. However, if you are looking for something that's better constructed, go to where the professionals go...to the local electrical supply house. They have access to (and maybe have in stock) the better grade product.
How tight is that space above the door? You can get a Philips Fluxstream EZ or Cree LS 4 that are only 3" deep and they're really cool LED versions of the strip fixture. Pricey, yes, but extremely efficient and long lasting.
10' ceilings are the right height for T8's, if you dont want to spend the dough on LED.
Whatever you choose, I recommend running them from front to back to avoid glare when you're pulling your car into the garage.

 

[astroracer]

Is the shop heated at all times? If not, cold starts will be a requisite. Run them lengthwise as recommended above. 4 8' lights down the center and three along both sides will give you plenty of light.
Pay attention to where you will have benches and hang task lighting over those. Separate the lights on switches so you don't have to turn them all on for a five minute job.
Mark

 

[Jamie V]

How tight is that space above the door? You can get a Philips Fluxstream EZ or Cree LS 4 that are only 3" deep and they're really cool LED versions of the strip fixture. Pricey, yes, but extremely efficient and long lasting.

It's right about 3" above the door so I'd be too leery that the door would hit anything mounted above it.

Is the shop heated at all times? If not, cold starts will be a requisite.

Yes the garage will be heated all the time (probably sit around 50° and then bumped up when I'm out there working.

Run them lengthwise as recommended above. 4 8' lights down the center and three along both sides will give you plenty of light.

I can't run those lights down the center because of the overhead door and because of the ceiling fan mounted in the dead center??

 

[cybrdyke]

Jamie, We're not beaten yet!
In the tight space, consider this....
There are fairly new products out that we call "faux cans". They are LED fixtures that LOOK like downlight cans, but they dont actually have the can part. They mount to a square or octagon electrical box in the ceiling and are normally less than an inch thick.
Here's a couple of links, but these are made by lots of others....

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con.../halo/spec_sheets/halo-sld6-adv141477-sss.pdf

http://www.lightingproducts.philips...ier-usa/slimsurface-led-downlight-c025e1.html

 

[Jamie V]

I'm not really worried about not having lights were the garage door is unless that's going to be some major problem not having it.

My main question is where should I put the lights, what kind, and how many?

I need to miss the garage door when open, the four exhaust grills, the two attic access doors, and the ceiling fan in the dead center.

 

[Jamie V]

I think I've got a plan, what do you think?

34 lights 4' T8

Garage is 24'x40'

 

[Nekit]

Jamie,
I just replaced all florescent lights with LED tubes and I love them. After 10 years and replacing most of my ballasts and all the bulbs I got tired of fluorescents. Half the light would get dimmer as they got old and light would be uneven.

If it was me I would buy the cheapest 4'florescents I could find, remove the ballasts and install LED tubes. You can get the 4' led tubes for about $10-$12ea shipped when you buy in bulk. Instant on, half the electric use, last really long time. I went with the 5000K color and really like it.

My 2cents

 

[Jamie V]

That's more then i can afford. Your looking at $700-$800 just in LED bulbs compared to like $150-$200 in regular T8's.

LED swap would be something that I would do down the road.

 

[QUIKSVT]

Jamie, any more pics of your build? What size door did you go with? And please pics with Lightnings!

 

[Nekit]

That's more then i can afford. Your looking at $700-$800 just in LED bulbs compared to like $150-$200 in regular T8's.

LED swap would be something that I would do down the road.

I purchased some 4' T8 bulbs from ledking.us ,they are on eBay too, for under $12 ea shipped. I would think that if you bought 34 you could get them for about $400

They are in Milwaukee and I got them in 2 days.

It's your call. I just really like the LED's

 

[dfiler2]

I think you will be very happy with that layout, I'm assuming they are 4' apart.

 

[Jamie V]

I purchased some 4' T8 bulbs from ledking.us ,they are on eBay too, for under $12 ea shipped. I would think that if you bought 34 you could get them for about $400



They are in Milwaukee and I got them in 2 days.



It's your call. I just really like the LED's

I have 34 fixtures figured that's 68 bulbs and about $800. I just wired up the main panel from the house. I still have to pipe and Wire the whole garage. That $600 extra in bulbs will go a long way to having actual outlets in there.

 

[Jamie V]

I think you will be very happy with that layout, I'm assuming they are 4' apart.

Yes, 4' on center

 

[Jamie V]

jamie, any more pics of your build? What size door did you go with? And please pics with lightnings!

 

[dw1]

I think I've got a plan, what do you think?

34 lights 4' T8

Garage is 24'x40'

I have been using these alot instead of metal halides, these do need to be hung down away from ceiling 6" or so, they come with hangers, just need small piece of chain on each end (And eyebolt to hang on)
http://www.e-conolight.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=low+bay+fluorescent
or this one:
http://www.e-conolight.com/e-ln8t8w9ne3.html
You can get occupancy sensor, lights come on when you walk in the door and go off automatically after you leave.
Just another option! They seem to be a good quality light, I have not had any repairs of call backs on these...(Yet)

 

[dw1]

You wouldnt need as many lights also, you could try 6 and always add 1 or 2 if you want more light. I just took down 20 of these down in abuilding my buddy is getting ready to tear down on a job he is doing for someone, after we do his pole barn, I am hoping there are a few left to do mine

 

[Platonic Solid]

...24'x40'x 10' ceiling height ...10'exposed conduit...all the walls and ceiling are painted gloss white to reflect light.

The garage door when open is so close to the ceiling a light will not fit above it so lightning will have to be around it...It's right about 3" above the door so I'd be too leery that the door would hit anything mounted above it.

There are four 22"x22" exhaust grills ... two 24"x24" access panels ... ceiling fan in the dead center ... that need to be missed.

I think I've got a plan, what do you think?

34 lights 4' T8

Garage is 24'x40'

You have 8 2-lamp fixtures above your garage door that you said wouldn't fit and you have way too many fixtures. (about 170fc at 30" workplane height)

Below will achieve about 117fc at 30" workplane height (which is high) except for center fan and garage door, which will still be respectably bright.

Using Lithonia C232-120-GESB for photometrics
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...-Light-C-2-32-120-GESB/100543144?N=5yc1vZc9h7

20 Fixtures:
2 continuous end-to-end mounted rows of 8 fixtures parallel to 40ft walls spaced 3.83' from walls, centered.
1 continuous end-to-end mounted row of 3 fixtures parallel to 40ft wall down the middle between fan and non-garage door wall - installed even with fixtures near wall.
1 fixture installed parallel with the rest between fan and garage door top (when open).

Go here: http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/photometricViewer/default.aspx?id=15168 click tools - interior and play.

 

[Jamie V]

You have 8 2-lamp fixtures above your garage door that you said wouldn't fit and you have way too many fixtures. (about 170fc at 30" workplane height)

Below will achieve about 117fc at 30" workplane height (which is high) except for center fan and garage door, which will still be respectably bright.

Using Lithonia C232-120-GESB for photometrics
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...-Light-C-2-32-120-GESB/100543144?N=5yc1vZc9h7

20 Fixtures:
2 continuous end-to-end mounted rows of 8 fixtures parallel to 40ft walls spaced 3.83' from walls, centered.
1 continuous end-to-end mounted row of 3 fixtures parallel to 40ft wall down the middle between fan and non-garage door wall - installed even with fixtures near wall.
1 fixture installed parallel with the rest between fan and garage door top (when open).

Go here: http://www.visual-3d.com/tools/photometricViewer/default.aspx?id=15168 click tools - interior and play.

I went out and checked and where the first row would be the door is at 4". If I run them front to back (40' way) the door is 3" off the ceiling for the first 12" or so.

Your saying 3.83' off the walls. That's roughly where the garage door tracks are.

The garage is 960 sq/ft and 34 fixtures should put me right about 200 lumens sq/ft. I figured I would wire them so there was 3 switches with 3 rows on each switch. This way I could adjust the light depending on the task.

I don't understand the 170fc at 30" height thing (sorry for that, LOL)

 

[Jamie V]

 

[Jamie V]

What about the lithonia z series lights? Looks to be low profile?

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-L...-Profile-Strip-Z232-MV/204848309?N=5yc1vZc9h7

 

[Platonic Solid]

I went out and checked and where the first row would be the door is at 4". If I run them front to back (40' way) the door is 3" off the ceiling for the first 12" or so.

Your saying 3.83' off the walls. That's roughly where the garage door tracks are.

The garage is 960 sq/ft and 34 fixtures should put me right about 200 lumens sq/ft. I figured I would wire them so there was 3 switches with 3 rows on each switch. This way I could adjust the light depending on the task.

I don't understand the 170fc at 30" height thing (sorry for that, LOL)

The 30" workplane height is typical desk height, but I suppose you're not filling your garage with desks. You can get much more light out off the same fixture configuration by using the right ballast and lamp combination. See this spreadsheet: Lighting System Comparison.

I can't say I'm thrilled with the lamp spacing on the fixture you linked to. You lose light output when lamps are too close together. Here's Lithonia's strip lighting spec sheet.

Note that the published depth dimension does not include the lamp or lamp holders. Add 1.5" to published depth.

 

[Platonic Solid]

A side mount strip light would work over the garage doors, just wouldn't be the same as the rest of the fixtures (which would probably bug me).

 

[Jamie V]

A side mount strip light would work over the garage doors, just wouldn't be the same as the rest of the fixtures (which would probably bug me).

Me too!

 

[Jamie V]

The 30" workplane height is typical desk height, but I suppose you're not filling your garage with desks. You can get much more light out off the same fixture configuration by using the right ballast and lamp combination. See this spreadsheet: Lighting System Comparison.

I can't say I'm thrilled with the lamp spacing on the fixture you linked to. You lose light output when lamps are too close together. Here's Lithonia's strip lighting spec sheet.

Note that the published depth dimension does not include the lamp or lamp holders. Add 1.5" to published depth.

No one wants to spend money on something they don't need. I run a sheet metal shop and I'm always moving around to try to avoid shadows. If I have less lights but they are brighter will that be the same (as far as shadows) compared to more lights and not as bright?

I work on hot rods in my garage along with other mechanical stuff. I'm tired of needing a droplight to work under the hood of a car. Im not a "I'll add more later kind of guy." I'd rather turn lights off when not needed. But I don't want to need sunglasses either.

I painted everything gloss white for a reason.

 

[Platonic Solid]

No one wants to spend money on something they don't need. I run a sheet metal shop and I'm always moving around to try to avoid shadows. If I have less lights but they are brighter will that be the same (as far as shadows) compared to more lights and not as bright?

I work on hot rods in my garage along with other mechanical stuff. I'm tired of needing a droplight to work under the hood of a car. Im not a "I'll add more later kind of guy." I'd rather turn lights off when not needed. But I don't want to need sunglasses either.

I painted everything gloss white for a reason.

Best scenario is your entire ceiling is a light fixture. Worst scenario you have one superbright fixture in the middle of the room. You are absolutely correct: more light fixtures = less shadows = happy guy. There's nothing wrong with your original plan, I just think it will look . . uhm . . let's say it won't match the pleasing aesthetics of the rest of the garage.

Hey wait a minute!!! YOU RUN A SHEETMETAL SHOP!!! OK, now it gets much more interesting. If you can make some simple rectangle boxes, something like this: http://m.maxlite.com/datasheet/surface-mount-kit---direct-lit but a little shallower and put LED edge-lit panels in them it would look sweet.

 

[Jamie V]

Those boxes will project the light down. I want the light bouncing up off the ceiling and walls.

After looking closer I thought the second row in my picture would run into the brackets for the garage door tracks but I can change them so they don't.... I hate when things aren't perfect!

 

[Platonic Solid]

I know I'm going off on a tangent. Take a look at this:
http://www.cree.com/Lighting/Products/Indoor/Troffers/CR-Series
click the "accessories" tab
Then click the SMK-CR Specs. See housing on top of that PDF.

 

[Platonic Solid]

OK the previous post was ridiculously expensive. This Utilitech (no name Chinese brand) might be worth taking a look at.

 

[Electric_Light]

No one wants to spend money on something they don't need. I run a sheet metal shop and I'm always moving around to try to avoid shadows. If I have less lights but they are brighter will that be the same (as far as shadows) compared to more lights and not as bright?

I work on hot rods in my garage along with other mechanical stuff. I'm tired of needing a droplight to work under the hood of a car. Im not a "I'll add more later kind of guy." I'd rather turn lights off when not needed. But I don't want to need sunglasses either.

I painted everything gloss white for a reason.

The answer isn't blasting more lumens everywhere. You could benefit from a track light along the sides so you can aim them for relatively shadow free mix of direct/indirect(off the wall) lighting. This is the same generally idea as an operating room lighting. The use of LED wouldn't be necessary.

If you don't like shadows, you want the light coming from multiple directions.
On a cloudy day, the cloud acts as a gigantic diffuser and you get an essentially shadow free lighting. On a clear sunny day, the sun is a point source, so you get a very sharp shadow.

 

[Jamie V]

I hardly ever work on the same thing or in the same area so track lightning isn't a real option (and I wouldn't want it if it was) I'm just looking for good light coverage that I don't have to add to later.

I would think it would be better to have more fixtures with lower lumen output then less fixtures with more. Isn't that correct?

 

[Nekit]

I have 34 fixtures figured that's 68 bulbs and about $800. I just wired up the main panel from the house. I still have to pipe and Wire the whole garage. That $600 extra in bulbs will go a long way to having actual outlets in there.

Yes. Didn't think about double bulbs. I'm sure LEDs will only get cheaper if you decide to switch over later.